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Or, as they bill it, "Since you were born." Luckily, I *was* born in 1980. So ha.

I still believe that all of these countdowns and top x lists are totally useless. They're subjective, generally not thought out enough, and in no way possibly comprehensive. They exist solely to sell magazines, increase neilsen ratings, etc. through creation of arguments against the list. So that's what we're going to do here!

View a prettified web-based list at Blender's site or download a hard-to-read text file of the top 500.

Here's the game of sorts. Give me up to three songs that are too low on the list, give me three songs that are too high on the list, give me three songs that you'd replace with other songs by the same artist, and finally give me up to three artists who aren't on the list at all but should be. Explaining why, of course, is part of the fun.

So here's mine to start it off:

Songs too Low
192. Run DMC - "Walk This Way"
This song was a huge introduction of hip-hop to America at large. It was excellently produced. It even gave a serious lift to Aerosmith's career, which I seem to recall was flagging at the time.

268. U2 - "With or Without You"
I know U2 is higher on the list, with "One." I know that this track isn't even the best on the record. But I think it's the one that gets the most attention even today, and to say that on what might just be the best rock record of the 80's is something.

496. The Smashing Pumpkins - "1979"
Only 496. For one of the greatest, if not the highest quality, band throughout the 1990's. It's an excellently written song about the blase lives that most teenagers feel the have, but without the drippings of angst that songs from earlier and later in the decade share. To have Corgan and crew so low is a joke. But, yet, see below.

Songs too High
112. Ratt - "Round and Round"
Yeah, yeah, 80's glamrock, yeah. But there's better examples of it.

145. Lisa Loeb - "Stay"
I really like Lisa Loeb personally, and I like this song. It was big because it broke her career and was not as formulaic as your standard pop. But it's still a bit too high overall, I'd say.

220. Third Eye Blind - "Semi-Charmed Life"
Another song that was absolutely everywhere. And it's hard to hear it and not sing "doo doo doo, doo doo doo doo." Even with the better, longer album cut and the myriad of drug and sex references, this is still throwaway pop.

Replacements
1. Michael Jackson - "Billie Jean" replaced by "Thriller"
On the strength of the video alone. That video was historic, and even if it wasn't the best song on the disc, it's the one most everyone knows. Because of the video. And the video games, even. Billie Jean is a great song, but I just think in terms of overall impact Thriller has it beat.

496. The Smashing Pumpkins - "1979" replaced by "Tonight, Tonight."
Even with all the things I said about this song above, I'd swap it if I had the chance. There are so many worthy songs on this album alone, let alone their catalog in general. But I'll stick with Mellon Collie and draw out Tonight, Tonight - a song that builds over the length of the track to reach a angry and bittersweet crescendo, something that few people did as well as Billy Corgan. The video as well provided a look at how wonderfully odd the band was at its heart as well.

500. Coldplay - "Yellow" replaced by "Clocks."
Still their most famous song. Which I suppose I can't argue with, it is indeed catchy. But it took me about six months to start liking it. I didn't even get the album until I heard "Trouble." So why not swap it out with the only song from them so far that might equal "Yellow" in fame but is even catchier? Who out there does not know that piano line by now?

Missing in Action
Dave Matthews Band: Yeah, they've fallen far in the last few years from where they were. But pre-2000, Dave could still write a decent song and the band really played to their strengths. I wouldn't put "Crash Into Me" on the list, but why not "Two Step" or "#41?"

Red Hot Chili Peppers: I'm stealing this from Sabin because he's totally right. There is NO reason this band shouldn't have at least one song on this list. Let's even be generic and give it to them for "Under the Bridge" or "Give it Away," though my favorite would be "Soul to Squeeze."

I'll just do two of those for now because I need to get back to work. But you guys can follow me up.





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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

I too received this Blender. And I agree with R51, most of these Top whatever lists are pretty much pointless. We all have our own lists of the greatest songs, and frankly, that's all that we consider to be right.

I can make arguments of who's too high, and who's too low. But I can't get around the artists or songs that missing from this "in-depth" list.

Red Hot Chili Peppers

Oh you've GOT to be kidding me? These guys have been tearing up more different genre radio stations than J-Lo has had husbands. Modern rock radio, alternative radio, even pop radio. They've had more #1 songs than Tom Hanks has Oscars (No one quote me on that.) And how many times has one of their songs gotten stuck in our heads? I distinctly remember getting the quick-tongued "Giveitaway, giveitaway, giveitawaynow" chorus getting stuck in my head a number of times. Or the recognizable guitar intro to "Under the Bridge"? And you can make an argument for all 4 of the singles dropped of the Californication album, the title track the most so. The fact they had forsaken all these songs by this incredible band is downright disgusting.

Alice in Chains

Where are Layne, Jerry, Mike, and Sean on this list? Oh yeah, they're not. They may have not been as popular as RHCP or had made as many big hits. But I recall at least 3 that all out blew up on the alternative circuit: "No Excuses", "Heaven Beside You", and "Rooster". You can make a case for all three that they were the biggest single AiC released. But I make my case for "No Excuses". It was pegged by VH1 inside the Top 15 of the 100 greatest songs of the 90s. Yet add another decade and a half to the mix, and it's not even inside the top 500? Bah. BAH, I say!

Tool

I do understand why this band wasn't on the list. Tool was never a favorite on the pop standpoint, and barely even on the modern standpoint. And seeing as Blender is more of the popular/psuedo-indie music scene, I understand why they passed over this band. But that doesn't make it right. Tool inveritably launched a new direction in hard rock with their mix of nu-progressive writings. They're arguably one of the most influential bands to ever come out of the ground. Songs like "Intolerance", "Sober", and "Flood" made this possible. I would've liked to see "Intolerance" on the list as that's the song that just set it off for Tool's career.

Korn

Oh sure. Go ahead and say it. Everyone else does. "Korn sux". Good for you. But even if they do suck, I know that you were singing "Freak on a Leash" just like the rest of us. They also completely set the world of hard rock off in a new direction with the aformentioned "Freak on a Leash", "Blind", "ADIDAS" (not the shoe company). On top of all that, they revolutionized the 7-string guitar into the main stream.


I may post again if I come up with more to say.

This post has been edited by Sabin on 21st October 2005 19:49

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"When I turn the page
The corner bends into the perfect dog ear
As if the words knew I'd need them again
But at the time, I didn't see it."

~"This Ain't a Surfin' Movie" - Minus the Bear

I'm speechless. I think this list is so off it's ridiculous, at least to me anyways. Billie Jean is a great song, but it's definatly not the best song since 1980. There's been so much change musically and artisticly over the last two and a half decades that it's really impossible to make a definative list of "the best" songs.

There's a few on there that really don't deserve any credit from anyone at all though, Country Grammar comes to mind. That song is just totally underserving of any acclaim.

I'm with Sabin in that there's a disgusting lack of certain influencial songs and artists on that list, he mentioned Red Hot Chili Peppers songs, Alice In Chains and whatnot.

I fail to see how MC Hammer can be recognized, or 50 Cent or even Jay-Z when they don't even mention Sting and The Police. Those guys were huge during the 80's and put out quite a lot of work, enough so to deserve at least ONE spot on this list. I don't even want to know why Nysnc is on that list.

I could go on and on about how this thing is blatantly designed to appeal to the current retro trends and current stars, but nothing really comes to mind. I'm speechless over the matter.



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Okay, but there was a goat!

Quote (Dragon_Fire @ 21st October 2005 14:54)

I fail to see how MC Hammer can be recognized, or 50 Cent or even Jay-Z when they don't even mention Sting and The Police. Those guys were huge during the 80's and put out quite a lot of work, enough so to deserve at least ONE spot on this list. I don't even want to know why Nysnc is on that list.

Sting and the Police are on there with Every Breath You Take.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

k in my opinion

too low
65. Metallica-Enter Sandman- It was the song that broke their career, and to have the 7th highest selling Band (NOT just metal but im talking overall), band to be lower than the freaking Backstreet Boys???? Come on.

475.Live- I Alone- One of the best songs on an album that had so many good songs on it to begin with.

416 System of a Down-Chop Suey!-k i know im bashing all the pop stuff but when you actually have a band that is so socially conscious bands out there compared to the "club hit" of Hot in Herre, ill personally take the screams of "I cry when angels deserve to die" compared to telling some 18 year old to get naked in a club while some greasy 35 year old tries to pick her up......

too high
10. 50 Cent-In da club- Just reinforcing the stereotype that all african american males are gang bangers and its all about the "bling bling" and that all women are just objects. fine i will admit that it does get a club jumpin' but in the same respect how can a song of that nature be higher than a song like #268. U2 With or Without You???

97. Kelly Clarkson-Since You've Been Gone. Fine she has talent but 97??? come on.how much did the people at her label pay to get her that high on the list???

37.Bootylicious-Destiny's Child- nuff said

Replacement
Only one for this guy
k im gonna almost contradict my self but whatever

65.Metallica-Enter Sandman- Replaced with One.
fine sandman did break their career into the mainstream but when you have an epic song like One out there i personally think that it should garner more attention than the obvious radio hit


MIA

Where is the punk representation? "Classic" and i use that term loosely bands like Rancid or Pennywise. they may not be the most radio friendly but in the same respect i think that they have more meaning with the people born in the era than bands to say like PM dawn. Who besides some of the older people out there can actually remember them? more of a one hit wonder in my opinion.
Im also gonna agree with Sabin about the Korn, Tool and Red Hot Chili Peppers as well...


and to actually have Micheal Jackson at #1? i dont agree with that at all...
i remember seeing the VH1 top 100 of the 90's or whatever it was and for that the #1 was Smells like teen Spirit by Nirvana....and in my opinion it should be that for this as well.....but that my own personal opinion....

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he who makes a beast out of himself takes away the pain of being a man. Raoul Duke (Hunter S Thompson)

I've seen the Rockies, ive seen Saskatoon - Comin Home - City and Colour

Granted, I wasn't alive for some of these songs, but overall I think they whipped up a pretty good job. Of course, I think anything interesting but very tedious to create that I'm not obligated to do is pretty impressive.

Having me read this whole list and saying who I think should be higher or lower would just be my biased vote to any bands I like. I'm pretty sure everyone can admit to that. I'll also put in that this forum is generally pro-rock and anti-rap, so I doubt we'll be hearing any "Doug E. Fresh should be higher!!!" arguements. However, I will say that anyone who thinks that certain artists are over represented (i.e. 50 Cent) should have to consider that a big factor to making this list is the amount of money an artist makes, and not necessarily their long-term influence or musical talent and technical greatness. Not that I like Doug E. Fresh or 50 Cent or anything.

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I find your lack of faith disturbing...

There is a lot of stuff that I disagree with on this countdown, but I have to be getting to bed soon so I'll just start with my biggest problem.

Backstreet boys are on the list period (#34?) and pearl jam is 135...?

something is wrong with that picture

TOO LOW

#219 - Sean Paul - Get Busy --[Hey, forgot about him already!]
#051 - Usher - Yeah --[Say it one more time, Usher...one more time...]

TOO HIGH

#052 - Oasis - Wonderwall --[Backstreet Boys is better than this!?]
#426 - Beck - Where It's At --[Song that defines the Nineties]
#430 - Semisonic - Closing Time --[This is highway robbery at 430.]
#447 - Flaming Lips - Do You Realize?? --[Psychadelia doesn't deserve this]
#474 - The Pixies - Gigantic --[A big, big love = Getting place at #474?]
#475 - Live - I Alone --[Lightning Crashes is better, but still too low]

Random Things I noticed:

-Pearl Jam's "Daughter" is rated higher than the staple "Black," for a reason that is unknown to me. Both are great soft rock slow-burners, but I've never thought Black was worse than Daughter. It seems that some of these higher-ranked ones are the "debut"-type songs, so it kind of doesn't fit.

-Britney Spears is on the list...period. I think this confirms R51's to-sell-off-the-shelves theory.

-They called Pavement "snobs". Besides posting the songs that don't flesh out the band's awesomeness (see: selling-off-the-shelves theory), they called them the most obvious untruth you can get from hearing any one song. Die!

-I agree that 1979 should be waaaaaaaaay down the line. I mean, put "Enter Sandman" above it. Call the jury on this one.

-No Red Hot Chili Peppers, but Outkast is #2. Seriously, how can you mess up so bad that you pick them for a runner-up spot (dart-throwing involved) and then pick something extraordinarily good like Joy Division right down the line?



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It's gonna be a glorious day
I feel my luck can change

I really didn't see that Police song listed, by rather that one song isn't their only huge contribution.

At any rate, this list just seems a little weird from me. I'd love to know their criteria for placing songs on this list, because a good lot of it just downright confuses me. I acknowledge the popularity of a lot of the artists mentioned and the fact that no one will really come up with the same list of "Best" songs, but still. The fact that Nysnc is on there, but not the Chili Peppers? That's downright confusing. Popularity wise, they were huge for a very long time. They dished out hit after hit, they've been massively influencial, the works.

Nine Inch Nails are massively unrepresented on this list, as well as the Smashing Pumpkins. I'm not saying these things because I'm anti-rap, because I'm really not. I listen to it from time to time and I don't mind a good portion of it, but really, quite a bit of it is really just the same thing over and over, and while the same is true for any genre of music, it shines through a lot more with rap, to me. I can't think of a single reason why some of those artists can get rated so high other than current popularity, which I think is the worst thing to rate "Best Songs" by.

A lot of songs have been popular and at the same time, totally horrible. That crazy techno romanian song that everyone was singing to a few months back comes to mind. So does Ashlee Simpson, I mean, she was popular, but was there anything to her songs? We made her want to "La-La" and that's about it.

Let Blender have their list though, it does no harm.

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Okay, but there was a goat!

I agree with most of what has been said, i.e., the Smashing Pumpkins only appearing once and almost at the end, no love for KoRn, no RHCP, etc. But the most *BLARING* joke of a pick they put in there was putting Blink-182 in the top 500 at a ridiculous high-mark of 240. Seriously, what is up with this choice? I don't think there's any logical reason, including the one they gave, for putting this one so high, or for that matter, any list anywhere.

However, I do give them credit for their #1 choice. It's an interesting choice, and I do agree with what they've said about it (though I still wouldn't place it at the top). I loved the song and video when I saw it as a young lad. Glittery gloves, bizarre lighting, moonwalking, and strange lighting tiles made the video one of the most memorable I have ever seen. Also, when I was little, I was truly perplexed as to how Michael Jackson disappeared under the bed at the end of the video, and for some reason, I still remember it to this day. Smelly jelly, indeed.

This post has been edited by TheEvilEye on 23rd October 2005 02:27

Too high-

Usher- "Yeah"- This song was horrible. Not catchy, requires only a man who's willing to sing and have his voice crack while doing it.

Kelly Clarkson- "Since u been gone"- Wait, since U been gone? Seriously though, I just cant relate to some girl screaming lyrics that I don't understand.(i.e. "Since you been gone I can't breathe for the first time")

M.C. Hammer- "Can't touch this"- While it might be interesting on a pure nostalgia level, the only good thing about this song today the fact he wears his famous pants in the music video.

Too low-

White Stripes- "Seven Nation Army" -
I'm not a huge fan of the band, but the fact that they managed to impress even me with awesome beats and guitar makes it essential for it to be higher.

Smashing Pumpkins- "1979"- Because the smashing pumpkins aren't worse than usher. Ever.

Pearl Jam-"Black"- Arguably the most nostalgic 90's rock band, they should have a place in any 90's rock enthusiast’s heart.... well, memory at the least.

Replacements-

No Doubt's "Don't Speak" with "Sunday Morning". They're different in respects, but Sunday morning is just a better song for where it's aiming.

Metallica's "Enter Sandman" with "Fade to Black". Dramatic ballad, and deserves to show up as one of their only song on the list.

U2's "One" with "Sunday, Bloody Sunday". That song is the best they have to offer, and quite frankly, the best there is. It is truly a masterpiece and I'm surprised at it not showing up as well.

Missing-

Dave Matthews Band- Like R51 said, they had talent and they really knew where to put emphasis in the songs.

Steely Dan- Sure, they only had one new studio album since 1980, but it sure was a good one, and it just makes me sad to see them absent considering I was raised on all their music.

Earth Wind and Fire- Holy crap, this might be the most disappointing part of the list. They're awesome, and you can't resist humming or singing or getting up and dancing to their tunes.

This post has been edited by FallingHeart on 23rd October 2005 09:53

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"We're not tools of the government or anyone else. Fighting... fighting was the only thing I was ever good at, but at least I always fought for what I believed in." - Frank Yeager (a.k.a. Grey Fox)

For anyone curious, though Sabin has probably already read them, the letters have started coming in to Blender (quite predictably - of course the mag wants people to argue about the selections, just like we are, because it sells more magazines that way).Looks like the complaints they published were for the lack of Black Crowes (I think I could agree), the presence of Garth Brooks (Yeah, but he SHOULD be on there, as long as he's not Chris Gaines), and not enough Bowie.

And one of those letters complained about the presence also of "A Flock of [bleep]ing Seagulls," which IMO would have probably sold more records than their actual name.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

Quote (Rangers51 @ 21st October 2005 12:32)

I still believe that all of these countdowns and top x lists are totally useless. They're subjective, generally not thought out enough, and in no way possibly comprehensive. They exist solely to sell magazines, increase neilsen ratings, etc. through creation of arguments against the list.

I'm only going to voice agreement with this. I'd consider posting which injustices I think the list holds, but I don't think anyone really cares.

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"That Light has bestowed upon me the greatest black magic!"

What I think we really have here is not a list of the best 500 songs, but of the ones that made impact.

Ex: "Smells Like Teen Spirit" is lower on the list than other Nirvana songs. IMHO, "Smells Like Teen Spirit" is a good song, but there are other better Nirvana songs out there. If we gauge on impact it made on the popular culture at the time, then it totally makes sense that "Smells Like Teen Spirit" would be so low on that list.

Any "Best Songs" list that includes Backstreet Boys or Kelly Clarkson (especially so low on it!) is utter crap. On the other hand, Backstreet Boys did make a huge impression during the heyday of the late 90s, so like I said... "Top 500 Songs Of Impact Since You Were Born"

So Blender.... CHANGE YOUR TITLE ALREADY!

Edit

Josh: Yeah, I posted ;p

This post has been edited by Kame on 24th October 2005 23:40

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kame, tortue, tortuga, schildkröte, tartaruga, turtle

"Arthur Dent?"
"Yes."
"Arthur Philip Dent?"
"Yes."
"You're a total knee biter."

All in all, my choices are very much similar to R51 ones: upping Smashing Pumpkins, changing Billie Jean into Thriller, etc... but there's also so many french groups and artists that I'd want there, it's just not fair for you/me. Plus, at least a tier of Blender's nominees were almost never heard of here in France, so I wouldn't want to replace them with french ones, in case I actually replace an excellent group I don't know with an excellent group you guys have never heard of...

In any case, some french artists of my choice would be: M (aka Mathieu Chedid), Dyonisos, IAM and Akhenaton, Noir Désir, Les Croquants, Tryo, Mano Negra and Manu Chao, more Daft Punk, David Guetta, Les Ogres de Barback... and many more. And I'll throw in Alizee just for R51's pleasure...

Quote (Mr Thou @ 25th October 2005 09:16)

And I'll throw in Alizee just for R51's pleasure...

http://www.alizee-fanpage.com/page.php?language=en

Yes you will.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

Quote (Mr Thou @ 25th October 2005 09:16)

All in all, my choices are very much similar to R51 ones: upping Smashing Pumpkins, changing Billie Jean into Thriller, etc... but there's also so many french groups and artists that I'd want there, it's just not fair for you/me. Plus, at least a tier of Blender's nominees were almost never heard of here in France, so I wouldn't want to replace them with french ones, in case I actually replace an excellent group I don't know with an excellent group you guys have never heard of...

In any case, some french artists of my choice would be: M (aka Mathieu Chedid), Dyonisos, IAM and Akhenaton, Noir Désir, Les Croquants, Tryo, Mano Negra and Manu Chao, more Daft Punk, David Guetta, Les Ogres de Barback... and many more. And I'll throw in Alizee just for R51's pleasure...

If this were more of an international thing, I'd agree with a good section of the artists you've listed. Especially M, his totally bizarre style is definatly something unique and powerful enough to earn him a slot on this list. Hell, just his owl-looking hair should be enough to get him on the list.

I guess maybe it's because the 80's and 90's were more of a time for North American performers and musicians, still, how could you deny bands like Bush? Or Oasis? Ah well.

I'm not going to hold my breath for a revised list or anything, though a public apology for putting some of the names on that list should be issued.

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Okay, but there was a goat!

Heh.
Alizee.

http://www.transbuddha.com/mediaHolder.php?id=30



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"That Light has bestowed upon me the greatest black magic!"