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Im almost at the end of the game in this save, but i havent learned much for abilities as of yet.

I want to master out wizard on all my characters, and I figure, instead of learning Ice, Fire, and Bolt 4 on all of them, I'll have each of them learn one of the spells and teach it to the rest of my party.

I can use Equip sheild with Flame and Ice sheild to make fire and ice heal me, making learning those spells pretty easy to learn right?????? but I my question is really about bolt.

" If " i can absorb the attack, and still learn it, Since there is no Bolt Sheild (at least not that I know of!!!) Would I have to use Rubber Costumes? or could I use Rubber Shoes?

The costumes absorb Lighting, but they are a rare poach, and not that easy to get, where as the Rubber shoes cancel it out, and thats why im wondering if i could still learn it or not with them equiped.

(If it comes down to it, ill just wear something with Half bolt and cast shell on them first, but they dont have very much life )

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<FrPhoenix[Around]> "Burgleburgleburgle"

The two of them cancels lightning so you can't learn it by absorbing the magic. Simply equip MP Switch, or Magic defense UP (and use shell).

You can also try some party members with Talk skill, use Solution a few times on your casters, cast the spells, then raise it back up your faith and put an end to the battle.

You could also go the mind breaking way, which could be a good solution also.

This post has been edited by Zodiac on 16th February 2006 20:55

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Sayonara

I know this came up in another topic, but what about Innocence? if i cast doubt faith on the caster, and have them cast the spell, it will still hit them, it wont be canceled or absorbed, it will just do 0 damage.

But while we are on the subject of faith...

Is there anyway to increase it? (other then just in battle) I noticed that using Cheer up, and skills like that can add to Brave, but I would like to get a few of my characters Faith up, if its even possible, since its so low.

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<FrPhoenix[Around]> "Burgleburgleburgle"

You can increase characters' faith by using the Oracle's Preach skill.

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It's gonna be a glorious day
I feel my luck can change

I've never actually tried it, but I would think that using Innocence on your characters first would still allow them to learn it.

Also, Mediators are the best way to Raise Faith, although Oracles can do it as well.

A lot of people tried to learn Zodiac with innocent (including me more than 6 years ago), and failed. Inonocent seems to cancel out the ability to learn spells via the "blue mage" trick, but I don't think it's the case if you have 0 Faith.

Also if you lower your faith, raise it back up in the same battle, since it's much harder to raise it afterwards.

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Sayonara

I think awhile back I discovered that you had to take damage to learn the effect. For Cure 4 the reverse is true obviously. It's not that tough though, just heal after every cast...

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"That Light has bestowed upon me the greatest black magic!"

My recommendation would be to just take the route of using Mind Break on the caster (You'll probably want to kill off all but one enemy before attempting this anyways).

To be honest though, unless you're doing this to say that you'd learned these through Blue Magic, I'd just equip Gained JP Up and play through a couple battles (As I'm pretty sure learning the level 4 spells in this way is not 100%)

Quote (Shotgunnova @ 16th February 2006 21:39)

You can increase characters' faith by using the Oracle's Preach skill.

You mean the Mediator Preach skill? cool
( p.s. Im well aware of the Oracle spell Pray Faith, I was talking about a Perm increase.)

I'm just trying to learn them through blue magic to save time/jp, not for bragging rights or anything (like its much to brag about anyway?)

If innocence prevents the learning of spells through blue magic, but a faith of 0 doesnt... then i might try that, or at least test it.

although mind break seems more practical at this point (or just shell and magic def up for that matter {if i had magic def up...}) even if its not a 100% chance to learn the spells, maybe at least ill know if it saves time over good old gained jp up.

All in all, the 4th level spells are costly as far as jp goes, and i dont get much use out of them, but for lack of a better reason, i want them so i can master the job.

This post has been edited by CT5Holy on 19th February 2006 18:51

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<FrPhoenix[Around]> "Burgleburgleburgle"

also remember that everyone of the same class will gain jp during that battle so if they are all black mages they'll master black magic quicker

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"Have you ever seen a baby do that before?"

Quote (CT5Holy @ 19th February 2006 13:49)

You mean the Mediator Preach skill? cool
( p.s. Im well aware of the Oracle spell Pray Faith, I was talking about a Perm increase.)

No, actually Pray Faith and Preach work the same way. They temporarily raise your Faith, and then after battle the actual stat rises by a think like 3 or so. If you keep doing this, you will eventually get a very high Faith. Keep in mind that a Faith of 100 causes the unit to leave the party (although I think thats impossible...I could be wrong).



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"Dance, water, dance!"
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Currently Playing: Guitar Hero, Shadow of the Colossus

Quote (Shinjutsei @ 7th March 2006 18:31)

Quote (CT5Holy @ 19th February 2006 13:49)

You mean the Mediator Preach skill? cool
( p.s. Im well aware of the Oracle spell Pray Faith, I was talking about a Perm increase.)

No, actually Pray Faith and Preach work the same way. They temporarily raise your Faith, and then after battle the actual stat rises by a think like 3 or so. If you keep doing this, you will eventually get a very high Faith. Keep in mind that a Faith of 100 causes the unit to leave the party (although I think thats impossible...I could be wrong).

CT5Holy was correct in the first place, Pray Faith simply adds to any character the status of "faith" which acts as though your character's faith were 100. It doesn't raise the character's faith score at all.

If the character whose faith you wish to raise is a female, then I believe that Preach is your only option. For those male characters, you can also pick up the Bard reaction ability "Face Up", which raises faith by 3 at a time, every time you get hit.

Quote (Kane @ 8th March 2006 00:02)

CT5Holy was correct in the first place, Pray Faith simply adds to any character the status of "faith" which acts as though your character's faith were 100.

If the character whose faith you wish to raise is a female, then I believe that Preach is your only option. For those male characters, you can also pick up the Bard reaction ability "Face Up", which raises faith by 3 at a time, every time you get hit.

Not exactly actually... the "Faith" status doesn't act like 100 faith, it maximizes the damaged calculated by faith (as the target and/or caster).

Or if you prefer, it's like 100 faith for every magic except for Hell skills that acts like 0 faith.

I don't think Face Up is worth being used... you need high brave ("Cheer up" helps here) and getting the bard class. I prefer using Preach since it doesn't take much time to use, the hit% isn't so bad and I normally go on Nogias (easy map) to raise all my character's faith to 100 for permanent gain.

And sorry for before, nonetless useless talking I must say since you need to take damage to learn a spell (and Cure 4 needs to heal like The Ancient said). I tried to learn Fire 4 with a wizard equipped with a flame shield and nothing good came out of it. By logic, you must be affected by slow (no block/evade/immune) when Slow 2 is casted on you to learn it.

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Sayonara

Quote (Zodiac @ 8th March 2006 20:34)

Not exactly actually... the "Faith" status doesn't act like 100 faith, it maximizes the damaged calculated by faith (as the target and/or caster).

Or if you prefer, it's like 100 faith for every magic except for Hell skills that acts like 0 faith.

Alright, so let me get this straight.

If i cast Holy on someone, that has the faith status, they will take damage as though they had 100 faith regardless of their actually faith score?

And you said "it maximizes the damaged calculated by faith " but since it is as though they had 100 faith, it also effects a spells % to hit, right?

I've noticed that, when my enemies have the faith status, Death and other spells with lower hit %, like frog, almost ALWAYS hit. (hence pray faith becoming my new best friend...)

If thats true, then im assuming Innocence is the same way, but it is as though you had 0 faith (or 100 for hell skills?????).

Having Faith on the Caster and the Target would increase damage more so then if it was just one the Target, right???

(yet if the target had innocence, the casters Faith score or status would not matter period correct????)

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<FrPhoenix[Around]> "Burgleburgleburgle"

Quote (CT5Holy)

If i cast Holy on someone, that has the faith status, they will take damage as though they had 100 faith regardless of their actually faith score?

Yes... 100 faith is the maximum damaged reached by faith, but I think faith can go up to 255 since I had the last boss BREAK the 100 cap while he had "Face Up". Thus, meaning that damage can be 2,55 times more powerful than normal.

Quote (CT5Holy)

And you said "it maximizes the damaged calculated by faith " but since it is as though they had 100 faith, it also effects a spells % to hit, right?

Yes, if a status affecting spell of course. The Faith rod and the cursed ring comes into a great combo since you can't fail to cast death on yourself via black magic or math skill. Fun to get all your HP back so easily.

Quote (CT5Holy)

I've noticed that, when my enemies have the faith status, Death and other spells with lower hit %, like frog, almost ALWAYS hit. (hence pray faith becoming my new best friend...)

Faith plays a big role in this, in fact, faith has an exponential growth in % the more you gain. And since the faith status puts the % to its cap, it's normal it's so high.

Quote (CT5Holy)

If thats true, then im assuming Innocence is the same way, but it is as though you had 0 faith (or 100 for hell skills?????).

Well you can say that. Innocent cancels all faith related magic, even Hell skills. Looks more like a programming mistake than anything else huh?

Quote (CT5Holy)

Having Faith on the Caster and the Target would increase damage more so then if it was just one the Target, right???

Faith calculated magics are based equally from the caster's faith level and the target's faith level. Hence if your caster has 50 faith and your opponent has 70 faith, if you switched it, it would result in the same damage.

Quote (CT5Holy)

(yet if the target had innocence, the casters Faith score or status would not matter period correct????)

Yes, and sadly the only possible way that I can think of to remove the innocent status beside waiting is striking with the faith rod... Even then, it has a low chance to inflict the status.

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Sayonara

Quote (Zodiac @ 11th March 2006 14:22)

Quote (CT5Holy)

If i cast Holy on someone, that has the faith status, they will take damage as though they had 100 faith regardless of their actually faith score?

Yes... 100 faith is the maximum damaged reached by faith, but I think faith can go up to 255 since I had the last boss BREAK the 100 cap while he had "Face Up". Thus, meaning that damage can be 2,55 times more powerful than normal.

You had the boss break 100 with face up?

How high did it go exactly? Im assuming your just guessing the cap is 255, but if it didnt pass 128 that could also easily be the cap aswell...

Id like to see a screen shot of that or something...

Was it just a glitch or have you been able to duplicate the effect? And just for that boss im guessing, i doubt it would work on characters anyway, and even if it did, the max permenant score for faith and/or brave is 97 anyway...right?

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<FrPhoenix[Around]> "Burgleburgleburgle"

Umm sorry for the unwanted scam... I really didn't think Altima's faith would be THAT low (in fact, around sixty) and I think I forgot to consider something the last time I tested it.

Maybe the way I was doing it made me believe it went higher than 100 since I was watching Alma's ultima damage. And since her faith varies (Face Up) and the same applies to the boss, looks like I forgot to update her faith on my sheet resulting in a bad calculation.

I used Agrias this time with a faith rod (she has no Zodiac compability damage variance: neutral) and casted Fire with 15MA (had to reduce it with Reis with Mind Break). Altima finally reached 210 damage per Fire, or 100 Faith.
(100/100)*(100/100)*15*14=210

I think I got that idea out of my head because when HP/MP/CT doesn't show, it makes them able to break 999 HP/MP. I thought that MAYBE the same would apply to faith/brave, which now shows me that I was wrong.

Back on topic, if you want a way to learn safely higher magic spells, simply use Mind break or lower and raise back your faith. But the problem with this is that it's a pain to raise back faith. Use mind break, much simplier.

This post has been edited by Zodiac on 18th March 2006 01:46

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Sayonara