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Quote (Matt @ in "Brachioraidos (In FFIV Advance...)")

Kain's Abel Lance

Abel Lance?

I find this interesting that Square finally devoted a bit more of the game to the biblical allusion of Cain and Abel, above and beyond the plot elements between Kain and Cecil. Is it that Kain/Cain finally became "reunited" with his biblical "brother"?

As a sidenote, I once came up with the title "Because He Was Able" as a possible title for an FFIV film version.

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Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 3rd January 2006 10:41)

Abel Lance?

I find this interesting that Square finally devoted a bit more of the game to the biblical allusion of Cain and Abel, above and beyond the plot elements between Kain and Cecil. Is it that Kain/Cain finally became "reunited" with his biblical "brother"?

If that is actually a question (it's a bit hard to tell), I'd say that yes, it's a definite allusion to bibilical lore, and definitely reinforces Cain's role in the storyline.

Other than that, I can't see what you're on about, so clarify if this post isn't helpful.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

There's a little more to it. This isn't just religious mind-candy, as the means through which the lance is obtain fits in quite well with the Cain/Abel story.

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Kain ends up fighting his inner hate/jealousy towards Cecil after a series of murders are commited with the lance (all leading up to Cecil and Rosa, near the end) much like Cecil fought his own inner darkness to become a paladin. So, y'know. Kain/Cecil are much like Abel/Cain throughout that little even, in a way. Only Kain doesn't end up murdering Cecil.

I'm not sure I understand your sidenote. "Abel" isn't spelled like "Able" so I don't see the relation...

This post has been edited by Silverlance on 4th January 2006 00:37

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Quote (Silverlance @ 3rd January 2006 19:36)

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Kain ends up fighting his inner hate/jealousy towards Cecil after a series of murders are commited with the lance (all leading up to Cecil and Rosa, near the end) much like Cecil fought his own inner darkness to become a paladin. So, y'know. Kain/Cecil are much like Abel/Cain throughout that little even, in a way. Only Kain doesn't end up murdering Cecil.

Yes, it should be noted that I haven't actually PLAYED the game yet.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

Hmm, ignore that then.

Though it's not so much a storyline element as a minor add-on in an optional event, so that isn't much of a spoiler, if you've read it. ^^;

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

I don't remember ever getting the "Abel Lance" could someone shed some light on that.

(sorta spoiler):

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

you get it after completing kain's lunar ruins trial, and you get dragoon gloves that turn "jump" into "double jump".)

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OSonic Rave
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But why would it be called "Abel Lance" if Kain was Cain? I've thought about how the Lance could relate to Cecil somehow or another, but I can't really see how it makes sense. Granted, I haven't played it either, so maybe there's some connection revealed in the new translation, but whatever.

Any help there?

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Distant hills wear a shroud of grey
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Sole witness to history

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Quote (Spiffyness @ 4th January 2006 17:10)

But why would it be called "Abel Lance" if Kain was Cain? I've thought about how the Lance could relate to Cecil somehow or another, but I can't really see how it makes sense. Granted, I haven't played it either, so maybe there's some connection revealed in the new translation, but whatever.

Any help there?

I doubt that there's meant to be an explanation along the lines of "...and then Cecil turns into a lance and lets Kain wield his power!" to explain the name. It sounds like a blatant knock on the head with some already obvious symbolism. Even Steinbeck was more subtle.

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Veni, vidi, dormivi.

Yeah, I don't think that there's too much more symbolism than is obvious:

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Kain is asked by the Lunar Bahamut to be a Cain and destroy his 'brother' Cecil (didn't they grow up together?). I assumed that the name "Abel" just represents the good side. Or maybe Kain, wielding the Abel Lance, is symbolic of his internal struggles between good and evil? That might be stretching it, but all I know is that I gleefully answered "Yes" on my first run through.

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Cannis Rules: Balance of Power - My favourite Yuri's Revenge Mod

was this in the original version? or does this onlly pertain to the recent release

I thought that part was very emotional, actually. Kain chooses to um... please forgive me. "Be his brother's keeper." He still struggles with his demons, but he doesn't give up the struggle -- that's the important thing.

I never liked Kain too much until that scenario, actually. I was impressed.

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Some ghost of me might greet my son
the day he is delivered.


Eternal Sleep, Track 1-1: The Blue Planet

@Kane:
That's only in the re-release, as it's in the optional dungeon.

@L. Cully:
My thoughts exactly. Of all the trials, I loved this one most. It actually added character developement, whereas the others were either custom-tailored dungeons/trials with little to no storyline/character developement, or just character-themed events (like Cid's Crazy Taxi Airship.)

It's a shame the trials don't actually further every character taking part in them.

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

I'm just level grinding right now in the Lunar Core. I've already gotten the extra characters' better equipment from Mt. Ordeals. Now, this other dungeon- I have to finish the game first before it opens?

Quote (Silverlance)

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Kain ends up fighting his inner hate/jealousy towards Cecil after a series of murders are commited with the lance (all leading up to Cecil and Rosa, near the end) much like Cecil fought his own inner darkness to become a paladin.

Wait...so the game introduces, near endgame, a bunch more storyline about Kain, and all merely through the dungeon? That's...very interesting. Or are they flashbacks? Or...*is about to play the game himself...*

Quote (Silverlance)

I'm not sure I understand your sidenote. "Abel" isn't spelled like "Able" so I don't see the relation...

That came from a joke I read in a children's joke book:

Why did Cain kill his brother?
Because he was Abel (able).

--------------------

Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 7th January 2006 23:26)

Quote (Silverlance)

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Kain ends up fighting his inner hate/jealousy towards Cecil after a series of murders are commited with the lance (all leading up to Cecil and Rosa, near the end) much like Cecil fought his own inner darkness to become a paladin.

Wait...so the game introduces, near endgame, a bunch more storyline about Kain, and all merely through the dungeon? That's...very interesting. Or are they flashbacks? Or...*is about to play the game himself...*

Quote (Silverlance)

I'm not sure I understand your sidenote. "Abel" isn't spelled like "Able" so I don't see the relation...

That came from a joke I read in a children's joke book:

Why did Cain kill his brother?
Because he was Abel (able).

That's not a joke, that's a tragedy.

Moderator Edit

Agreed, but at least he posted something that was on topic. -R51

This post has been edited by Rangers51 on 8th January 2006 22:15

Quote (bad andy @ 7th January 2006 17:50)

I'm just level grinding right now in the Lunar Core. I've already gotten the extra characters' better equipment from Mt. Ordeals. Now, this other dungeon- I have to finish the game first before it opens?

Yeah, beat the game normally, and press A at the very end. Some people have missed out on this because they didn't wait until the end, forcing them to beat it again.

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Cannis Rules: Balance of Power - My favourite Yuri's Revenge Mod

Lunar Bahamut is the one Lunar guy that I can't beat. He counters every time I hurt him, and he knows Mega-Flare. What levels were you when you beat him (thus allowing you to get the Abel Lance)?

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Dead Winter. A nice comic.

i think my cain was at his 60s...i think.

the trick is to put him in the back row and input the jump command when mega flare reaches 2. that way, you'll be up in the air when he flares you. as for the counter attack, it shouldnt do more than a few hundred since your in the back row (assuming that he has good armor on.)

or you could be brave and try lunar curtains. but i dont because i'm a scaredy cat and am afraid of it wearing off before i can curtain again and am nuked by mega flare

the top one helped me alot, thats how i beat him. =3



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OSonic Rave
/ \Last Arcanum
[ ]Strike Raid
XRagnarok

Like Zeromus_X said, just have Kain jump at the right time and you won't ever get hit! Put him in the back row to survive physical attacks.

You can win this fight without taking any serious damage if you play your cards right. It's just a matter of knowing when to jump, then, well, you're set.

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

I beat him at Level 66. I didn't think to back row him until after the fight. I used 2 of my 3 lunar curtains to do it, but it was worth it, as Kain was my weakest link with his non ultimate dragon armor. Now he has Dragoon Armour and Dragoon gloves, which when coupled with the Abel lance, can mean 9999 double jumps almost every time

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Dead Winter. A nice comic.

i got to a point where i survived his mega flare TWICE, but then i got cocky and kept fighting when i should've healed and he did 5000 damage to me, and the moral of the story is......... lunar bahamut is one bad dragon

Ill follow that good strategy since i cant beat him either, but where inthe heck do you get the dragoon gloves...are they also next with the abel lance, kinda like on edges dungeon, you get the hanzo gloves...

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You get the new gauntlets after beating Lunar Bahamut, iirc. You get the Abel Lance during the actual storyline, so you would probably get that after the battle.

This post has been edited by Dark Paladin on 21st April 2006 14:26

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"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
-Brad Meltzer

going back to what Zeromus_X said, yes lunar curtains do work. if they didnt, kain never would've won for me

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Aujourdhui a commence avec toi.

I know they work. I just prefer the Jump-timing strategy. (I didn't find out about he status bar until later in the game, ><; )

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OSonic Rave
/ \Last Arcanum
[ ]Strike Raid
XRagnarok