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Right. Before I explain why I think Sabin could very well be designed to be homosexual, a few points:

I don't say this to flame Sabin. First and foremost because I don't think homosexuality is a bad thing.
I'm not making this thread to spark a debate about the ethics of sexual interest. Some posters asked to explain my opinion, and as not to get off-topic I wanted to do it here.

Now, onto the hints:

'Think a "bear" like me could help you in your fight?' A quote from Sabin when he joins you. I've never heard of somebody calling himself a bear, and it seems a strange word to just tell people how strong you are. While bear might as well have pointed to his own buff, there's another meaning to the word 'bear': According to (among others) Wikipedia, it's a term to describe a large, hairy man, usually bearded, in the gay community. I don't know about the hairy part - sprites nor Amano art is that close on detail -, but he IS the biggest man in the team, and Amano created him bearded. It probably never made the cut due to sprite issues or another reason.
Note - I don't know how appropriate or not the word 'bear' is in this meaning. If it's a offensive one, apologies.

Before you ever even meet Sabin, you come across his house near South Figaro, where Edgar will recognize the house its owner by three distinctive features: the presence of his favorite dishes, his favorite flowers, and his favorite tea. All three are, at least in the Netherlands, often linked to the stereotype homosexual.

'I know! Let's go to Jidoor and give you a makeover!' Another line from Sabin; when he discovers the crazy man is actually Gau's father, he's the first to treat Gau as his personal dress-up project. Another rather stereotypical character trait, but since they could never have created an obviously gay character, they had to be both subtle and very clear between the lines, right?

It is also interesting to note that Sabin is the ONLY mature male character in the game who does not hint in any way he is attracted to women. Locke had a relationship with Rachel, Edgar flirts like a crazy man, Setzer abducts and compliments Celes for her beauty, Cyan was, if not married, having a relationship and while Strago, that old coot, never really does anything with love, he was originally created to have a wife (who would become a Playable Character, even!). Sabin, being in the prime of his life, has nothing.
A good example is the Nikeah scene when you're about to finish Sabin's scenario. Cyan is approached by a 'dancer' (I'll leave her actual profession to your imagination). Cyan, in all his emotional wreckage, can't even stop himself from looking her up; Sabin...just laughs at Cyan's arousel.

Finally, a minor point; as possible king, it's only logical you must eventually get married. I'm not saying that Sabin ran away for this reason - I'm sure it wasn't the primary one. It is a very understandable move in that aspect as well, though.

I'll be taking questions and comments now

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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth

Wow... that is some pretty good evidence, however...
1) American's translators were on pot when attempting to translate Japanese into English - the ones about Dialogue are dismissable.
2) Sabin isn't the one who'll go around flirting with girls IMO, I wouldn't expect that out of him. You can't have every male in the game have some sort of love life.
3) Perhaps he's taken a vow of chastity with his fighting style?

Very interesting theory though. I enjoyed reading it.

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"A little tight, but the price was right" - Locke
"Oh, what a Fuddy Duddy" - Relm
"..." - Shadow
"I'm a General, not some love starved twit" - Celes
"Although Edgar showers his attention on the ladies, most are smart enough to pay him no attention. Oh! King Edgar!" - Figaro Castle Inn Attendant

Question 1: Are you high?

But seriously, I'm not sure I understand how this makes him homosexual as opposed to a simple body-builder who drops everything in favor of freedom and doesn't want to be tied down to anyone.

- The bear quote sounds like a massive stretch. Considering that's an occidental meaning and that the game was originally created in the orient (japan,) that a "bear" is a strong, brutish beast, and that this game WAS translated by... that guy..., it probably doesn't mean Sabin's attempting to hint at his sexual deviance to a group of strangers. Sounds more like he's trying to show the party he has what it takes to join their cause.

- Oi. Can't a guy have a refined side without being a flamboyant brownie-baker? So Sabin like having tea breaks and takes up relaxing hobbies such as gardening; he's an Englishman, I say!

- Given Sabin's refined side and English heritage, who better to teach Gau some manners than him?

- Relm doesn't have any male suitors. Celes has Locke, Terra had Locke and Leo, so what about Relm? Does that make her a lesbian? No. She's into beastiality, and her relationship with Interceptor is quite obvious. She even takes him up to her room, for crying out loud. Who are we to judge Sabin when an UNDERAGE PRETEEN girl takes a DOG up to her room?! Square obviously had FAR bigger fish to fry than Sabin's sexual deviance; Relm was a much riper subject.

- For that matter, if Sabin is as hairy as a bear, who in their right mind would want to get involved with a hairy, oversized Englishman who hands out with a preteen slut like Relm? Who, I ask you?!

It's quite obvious what's going on here. Sabin is not gay. He's just English, hairy, and quite a turnoff to women. His association with Relm, now obviously the most controversial character in videogame history, most likely alienates any possible female suitors.

Way to go Square. I've been subject to pedophilia and bestiality during my tender childhood because of you. Way to go, Square...

--------------------

"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Uhhh...first: this is a JAPANESE game, not a Netherlandish game (or whatever the adjective would be, excuse my ignorance on the point, please)

"Bear" is, for all I know, a standard japanese expression describing someone large and muscular (bah, japanese, we use that here in Poland to describe the most muscular and hairy badasses) person (often a bit "unkempt").

Dishes, flowers and tea were hobbies of japanese warriors of the days of old, who valued both skill in battle, as aesthetics.

As to the makeover, it could have been anyone's idea, as the entire party will participate in the shop-searching, but Sabin got protective of the kiddo, so he gave the idea.

No interest in women you say? Maybe it's just a plot hole. But then, think of it: he grew up (after he ran off, that is) only in company of Vargas and Duncan. He's been very protective of everyone too.

That's pretty much all I'd say on the point.

PS - tis' slippery territory Dji.

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"I fell off the mountain of words at around the 10,000ft mark. Tell my family...they owe me money." -Narratorway

"If you retort against this, so help me God I'll shove any part of your anatomy I can find into some other part. Figuratively, of course." - Josh

"We have more, can deliver tuesday." - Del S

Good old CoN

High? No, not at all, but thanks for, you know, questioning my mental state and all

I know He Who Shall Not Be Named translated the thing and I don't know how the Japanese version handled that line and how ambiguous it was/wasn't. Still, I stand by my statement it's a weird word for what he supposedly was trying to get across and oddly accurate when applied to my interpretation.

Refined side? This is the guy who went 'Eh....why's everyone singing?' at the Opera House. Gau proved you don't need to be a regular culture lover to understand and appreciate a nice opera performance. Nay, his refined interests are less broad than you give him credit for

Relm is 13, and STILL tries to get it on with Edgar (translation mess-up in Thamasa when Edgar and crew arrives, brief non-verbal hint during the ending where Edgar hits on Celes, Celes moves to Locke, and Relm goes up to take her spot).

Quote

Who, I ask you?!

Eh...the bear-admirers in the gay community?

Quote

Uhhh...first: this is a JAPANESE game, not a Netherlandish game (or whatever the adjective would be, excuse my ignorance on the point, please)

That would be 'Dutch'. Still stereotypes are pretty similair around the world.

Quote

Dishes, flowers and tea were hobbies of japanese warriors of the days of old, who valued both skill in battle, as aesthetics.

As far as I know, they liked culture in general (which Sabin doesn't), admired and wrote poetry and only related themselves to cherry blossom (Sakura) because it fell from the tree when still beautiful, which they linked to them dying in battle (as opposed to growing old and wasting away).

Quote

No interest in women you say? Maybe it's just a plot hole. But then, think of it: he grew up (after he ran off, that is) only in company of Vargas and Duncan. He's been very protective of everyone too.

Dunno about you, but I'd figure after such a long time of nothing, he's more wanting of female company than before. It's not like he's a monk who has taken a holy vow or anything, he just lived in the mountains for a long time to learn how to beat people up until they died from it.


This post has been edited by Djibriel on 14th May 2005 21:28

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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth

Ahem. I really don't think think Relm was a "slut"...
Or that Sabin was gay. I always that in the WoR he liked that girl who's house he saved, but maybe that was just me.
I also kind of assumed that he was laughing at the way Cyan was reacting, not that he looked her up and down.
Personally, I just assumed an ex-general, a 10 year old artist, and an "Imperial witch" were not his cups of tea (Hah!).


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You're telling me that there's no hope.

I'm telling you you're wrong.

As interesting as Silverlance’s Relm theory is, I’m simply assuming that he’s high on his own joke.

As far as Djibriel’s theory, as others pointed out, it’s sometimes a question of either 1. translation or 2. interpretation.

1) the bear joke: translation. Unless we know what the original Japanese word was, and whether they are receptive to the bear=gay innuendo, then it doesn’t seem to prove this. Unless Woolsey was aware of what Djibriel has told us and purposely used the word to make his own innuendo. Hey, he was good on cultural/American innuendo- why not that one? (Is fairly neutral on the Woolsey issue). Note: I once heard that Japanese sites often refer to Ramza of FFT as a ‘bear’. Does this support the theory? (Is afraid that this just may).

2) dishes, flowers & tea: may be either translation or culture. SilverMaduin talked about the Japanese warrior culture. I myself am wondering whether it could also be that ‘tea’ is the same as Suikoden I’s tea with Flik and Kimberly. You know, the tea that came in a wine bottle and was probably wine in the original. This tea, therefore, may have been censored beer.

3) Makeover: may be translation. It’s suggested by Sabin, but mostly performed by Celes. Because who is better to oversee such a function than a manly female general and possibly gay buff martial artist? But seriously, the choice of the world ‘makeover’ is once again by Woolsey. Perhaps he WAS forwarding some kind of innuendo?

4) The “dancer”: interpretation. As RelmArrowny said, it wouldn’t be stretching it to say that he was laughing at Cyan’s reaction/predicament. Sabin seems to be the kind of character who often laughs, makes jokes, etc. I can see how such a situation would amuse him, especially since he often makes fun of Cyan for his speech, fear of machines, and so on.

5) No female love interest: Hmm… there is a distinct lack of age-appropriate females in this game in general… while the other male characters of Sabin’s approximate age did have some connection to females, sometimes this was used to relate them to a backstory. Sabin’s backstory was about his brother, his kingdom, his freedom, etc. Maybe the writers felt that throwing in a woman into it as well will be just too much. They already had Setzer and Locke mourning dead women, Edgar as a flirt, Shadow running away from his family, and Cyan mourning his. Perhaps they felt that to throw in a girlfriend for Sabin as well would have been a tad too much?

Quote

I'd figure after such a long time of nothing, he's more wanting of female company than before.

What about the girls in South Figaro? Sabin's reaction to the dancer actually shows that he's very familiar with town-life and all that it entails. The game doesn't deal with these issues because they're not relevant, but it's not likely that Sabin's monkly training necessarily entails not having "girlfriends". Just like Edgar's flirtations are not really that innocent, as much as they're treated as a joke.

Now I'm over-analyzing a children's game. Although I understand it's not that innocent in the Japanese version anyway...


This post has been edited by manapriestess on 14th May 2005 22:15

The makeover IS almost entirely executed by Sabin, not Celes. Sabin is a kind of big brother figure to Gau, he's required for the makeover and starts and closes the entire thing. It's just during the clothing part the characters in your party bicker with eachother.

I wasn't saying that Sabin is laughing at Cyan because he thinks it's funny he's a heterosexual or something. My point is that he's laughing at all. Years of all-male company and when the story brings him before an, apparantly, gorgeous and skimpily-clad woman, he laughs at Cyan for noticing her physicue.

Sabin comes across a lot of female NPC's. The only ones he mentions/talks to are the two women who were a mother to him; his actual mother and Duncan's wife (see? being a martial artist master doesn't mean you should be monogamous).

Obviously, it's only there if you want to recognize it. Having Edgar say 'you never did take a liking to ladies like I did' would be too clear. Any more-than-obvious statement would get censored. Ask yourself, if you wanted to create a homosexual character without being able to say he/she is one, how would you do it? There's little to do besides what's been done with Sabin, IMO.

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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth

There are a couple points missing from this thread that I will state now.

Sabin's ultimate Blitz was originally called Battle Dance, but in the translation, became Bum Rush. While most likely a coincidence, the internet has been very prone to not giving Woolsey's FF3us translation the credit it deserves. It's just as big a stretch as the word bear, but in that same vein, it's possible this was a hint as well. (I'm not serious with this point, I just think it would be a funny coincidence)

The Celes/Setzer coinflip scene. Edgar obviously is hetero and has more than enough evidence to back up the thought that he was blushing from the thought of marrying a hot chick who could wield Magic. Sabin's preference was never outright stated, so like I said in the Glitches and Bugs guide, this left-in bug is fodder for whomever wants to think Sabin actually is gay. Think about it; Setzer's not the best looker, but he's rich and has an airship. He's financially muscular, whereas Sabin has been living the life of a poor mountain guy. The honeymoon alone would be worth a lifetime with a scarred-up pale gambling freak who has the ability to command death itself. How's Setzer not a turn-on for our poor bear?

On another note, Relm is 10, Gau is 13, and I'm pretty sure Edgar was going to hit on Relm deliberately, but backed off after finding out how old she was. That's probably why he gives the growing up too fast line in the translation.

--------------------

The Unoriginal White Sheet

-Master ZED

I'm genuinely surprised by the lack of humor people have.

In any event, here's the Gau scene.

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Sabin: You don't suppose... Gau, could this be your father?
Gau: Uooo...
Sabin: Come on, Gau. It's true, right?
Gau: ...fffatherrr...?
Sabin: Yes. This is definitely your father.
Gau: ......??? ...Gau's...father?! Oooogauooooo!
Sabin: Right!! Let's go tell your father the news! He needs to know you're his son!

Sabin: Just a minute... We can't just go there with you looking like this.
Sabin: I know! Let's go to Jidoor and give you a make-over!

Sabin: No, Gau! Don't eat with your fingers!
Gau: Yaoooo...
Sabin: Don't say "Yaoooo" when you mean "Yes!"
Gau: Ho!
Sabin: ......

Kefka: How do you like these? Wait! What about those?
Hm...oh well...
Kefka: Did you say something?
"N...no! Nothing... ...Uh huh..."
Celes: Which is it gonna be? Oh! This is nice...but... Do you think it becomes Gau?
Well...
Celes: What?!
"...Nothing..."
Cyan: What a jaunty hat!
"Not at..."
Cyan: Wait a minute! Where's the hat?
"......"
Sabin: This is it!
Gau: Me go to funeral?
Sabin: Perfect! Functional yet sporty! Done!
"I don't think..."
Setzer: Phew! Completely lacking in fashion...
Setzer: Excuse me, sir. Could you order some clothes like the ones I'm wearing?
Impossible!
Setzer! How dare you think of sticking him in that kinda getup?!
Edgar: I got it! A tuxedo, silk hat...and... ...a rose in his teeth!
Locke: I think that's overdoing it just a bit... He should have a bandana on his head!
Edgar: What's so great about a bandana? Most of the time I see 'em tied around dogs at the beach!
Locke: HEY! What do you mean by that?
Sabin: Okay, Gau? Now, any father'd be glad to have a son like you!
Gau: Hooo...

Sabin: Excuse me, Sir.
AGED MAN: Who'n blazes 'r you? Oh! The repairman!
Sabin: Sir... You...had a son, right? You with me!?
AGED MAN: ...son?
Sabin: Right. The truth is, he's alive! Come here, Gau!
Gau: Fffatherrr...
AGED MAN: What is this?! What's with this "son" business? I never had a son!
AGED MAN: But now that you mention it, I once had a terrible dream. In it, a demon-child was born!
I grabbed the creature, and rushed off to the Veldt with it... It was crying like crazy when I arrived on the Veldt.
Sabin: But, Sir...!
AGED MAN: I left the child there... And without looking back, I turned and started to run.
Sabin: I'm trying to tell you...
AGED MAN: Suddenly the crying stopped. I turned around and saw a frightful monster...
Hideous! Still gives me the shakes.
Sabin: I give up...
AGED MAN: But you, young man, your parents must be proud of you! I still have dreams of that demon child...
Frightening...
Sabin: Why! You old... He's completely lost his mind! Gau, I'm gonna clobber him!!
Gau: Uwaooo...ooooo...
Sabin: I...I'm sorry...
Gau: Fffatherrr...alive... H...a...p...p...y...

Dissect and nitpick at will. Bonus points to whoever can prove Shadow has a foot fetish.

(Sounds more like a Big Brother Sabin than a Queer Eye For the Straight Gau scene to me though.)

This post has been edited by Silverlance on 14th May 2005 22:40

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Quote (Silverlance @ 14th May 2005 16:08)

She's into beastiality, and her relationship with Interceptor is quite obvious. She even takes him up to her room, for crying out loud.  Who are we to judge Sabin when an UNDERAGE PRETEEN girl takes a DOG up to her room?! Square obviously had FAR bigger fish to fry than Sabin's sexual deviance; Relm was a much riper subject.

Have you read that awful fanfiction too?

As far as I know (or remember), Sabin keeps a stash of tea in both versions. And didn't, in the Jap. version, Terra call him a "bear" instead of a "bodybuilder who strayed from his gym" or whatever, most likely being the reason why Woolsey gave him that line in the translation? Course, that doesn't really shed any light on his straightness, either. Just means Terra possibly has some really keen gaydar.

He always seemed pretty neutral to me; not homosexual, not heterosexual, just asexual. He doesn't come off as someone interested in having any deep relationships, with a guy, girl, or otherwise. But I suppose it's just up to anyone's interpretation.

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Words of Wisdom:

If something can go wrong, it will.

If anything simply cannot go wrong, it will anyway.

If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong. - Murphy’s Law

Boing! Zoom! - Mr. Saturn

Quote (SilverFork @ 14th May 2005 17:56)

Quote (Silverlance @ 14th May 2005 16:08)

She's into beastiality, and her relationship with Interceptor is quite obvious. She even takes him up to her room, for crying out loud.  Who are we to judge Sabin when an UNDERAGE PRETEEN girl takes a DOG up to her room?! Square obviously had FAR bigger fish to fry than Sabin's sexual deviance; Relm was a much riper subject.

Have you read that awful fanfiction too?

...Wait, what?

You're joking, right? Please tell me you're joking.

--------------------

"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

I didn't know there was fanfic about Relm/Interceptor, but I'm not surprised, 'cause I've seen the hentai pictures.

Yeah, if you haven't seen them, you don't want to know.

--------------------

The Unoriginal White Sheet

-Master ZED

Let's turn this into a poll and let democracy decide.

Quote (manapriestess @ 14th May 2005 18:58)

Let's turn this into a poll and let democracy decide.

...There's something at stake here? I thought we were just debating this for fun.

--------------------

"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Quote (Silverlance @ 14th May 2005 19:02)

Quote (manapriestess @ 14th May 2005 18:58)

Let's turn this into a poll and let democracy decide.

...There's something at stake here? I thought we were just debating this for fun.

And to think that you accused us of lacking a sense of humor, Silverlance.

I tend to take such subjects with a grain of salt. Although deciding a pixelated entity's sexuality by vote will be a fascinating excercise. <-- Addendum: please note: this is a joke. NOT a serious suggestion. A j-o-k-e.

Or we can just do what Sirius/Lupin fans did and decide that it can go either way.

Seconds on the poster who said above that Sabin was probably meant to be asexual.

Mood: salty

This post has been edited by manapriestess on 15th May 2005 00:50

My problem with the poll option is that then we'll have people who cast a vote and not give a reason, then we won't know if they even read the thread or had any thought other than "this is what I think, screw you if you don't think the same," which is how I tend to think in casting a poll vote.

I say that we leave the thread as-is, our arguments supporting our choice. Without a poll option, people will have to post to cast a "vote," and in turn, have to think about the subject so they don't come off as mindless cretins. This question is for fun, but it will only remain that way if people must participate in the debate to be a part of the subject at all.

On that note, I think the Celes/Setzer coinflip scene never being fixed is proof enough for me. It may be debatable as to which way he's really leaning, but the fact that it's debatable alone gives me reasonable doubt towards him being straight.

Another point against it, though, may be the Nikeah pub scene. Perhaps Sabin didn't say anything about how the woman looked because Cyan may have taken offense somehow, that Sabin would dare even begin to suggest he would so easily start looking for another person to hook up with so soon after losing his own wife and child? Cyan was probably equally as uninterested in women at that time as Sabin, but for obvious reasons, so Sabin respected that even in having fun with Cyan's overreactive attitude about the whole situation.

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The Unoriginal White Sheet

-Master ZED

Quote (Master ZED @ 14th May 2005 19:32)

On that note, I think the Celes/Setzer coinflip scene never being fixed is proof enough for me. It may be debatable as to which way he's really leaning, but the fact that it's debatable alone gives me reasonable doubt towards him being straight.

But... it CAN'T be fixed. Not without some VERY sketchy palette fiddling.

Celes, Sabin, and Edgar share the same palette. To make Celes blush, the event script simply reddens the palette entries used to draw her skin. Which leads to characters with the same palette "blushing" as well because they share the same entries.

To fix it, they're have to...

1- Copy the palette to a free slot (if there is one?)
2- Reassign Sabin/Edgar's palette ID to the new one.
3- Go through with the blushing.
4- Reset Sabin/Edgar's palette ID.

Alternatively, Celes's sprite's palette could be set to the copy. The end result is the same, and there are no event script commands that allow a palette to be copied. Short of setting it manually through hardcoded values. Unless one of the commands not yet decyphered does it (though scanning through C0 real quick didn't reveal anything that seemed likely to do this. )

Then again, maybe it really is Square's intention all along to have Sabin blush, and the palette issues are just a coincidence in their favor. After all, self-hating alcoholic gothic gamblers are pretty hawt, especially if you're a large, blonde, bear of a man looking for a fragile, vulnerable person to protect. Cue the yaoi fanfics.

I do believe, however, that Edgar IS homosexual, and not his brother.

- The whole ladies' man thing sounds like a front to me. At least one of 'em must've fallen for his cheap charms. One MUST have fallen for him by now. So why's he still single?

- He slips up during the Gau scene and asks him to go see his father dressed up like a Don Juan, complete with a rose held between his teeth. Oops!

- Why the strange obsession with his brother? Sure, they're family. But seeing as Sabin left at a young age, it's surprising that Edgar would know so much about him: his favorite brand of tea, his favorite dishes, favorite kind of flower... (all dainty womeny details, too!) Is someone being a stalker?

- The chainsaw mask looks like a white gimp mask. No, seriously. I don't associate S&M with alternate sexual orientations, but this DOES contribute.

Hrm. Maybe it just runs in the family? King Figaro's marriage to the Queen may've just been a matter of convinience and for appearance.

--------------------

"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

I really don't think that the tea argument has any grounds. I mean, both British and Japanese drink tea. The programmers, being Japanese, wouldn't use tea to show homosexuality, and by dialogue Sabin is obviously British. "Bloody persistent!"-Sabin.

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When life gives you lemons... SQUIRT THEM IN PEOPLES EYES! Mwahahahahaha! *Squirt* Ow! Hey, that was my job! *Squirt* Knock it off! *Squirt* I want my mommy! Waaah! *runs off*

The moral of this story is *Squirt* Ow! *Squirt* Okay, okay, no morals.

I didn't see or sense ANY hints of homosexuality from Sabin. In my view, he was simply a martial artist who trained in solitude (approximately--not counting his master Duncan and his colleague Vargas). As you probably know, most monks and nuns (both Western and Eastern) are not very fond of expressing any interest at all in people of the opposite gender.

I think the description of Sabin as a 'bear' of a man is entirely appropriate. Well, fine, I didn't have a dirty mind when I played the game, and I probably won't play a game with dirty mind ever in the future, but still, the image that pops into most people's heads upon the mention of 'bear' is probably not that of a cute little teddy bear; I immediately think of a large black or grizzly bear, either walking around in the forest or standing on its hind legs in a threatening pose. Sabin's a big, tough, muscular guy, and not someone to mess with, so the comparison is quite accurate. Okay, maybe he's not very threatening, but neither are bears until you provoke them.

As for the tea/flowers/dishes/culture/whatever debate, what's wrong with him having tastes for tea, flowers, and dishes, while not being familiar with opera? Maybe he hadn't ever seen an opera before he left Figaro Castle when he was young, but he had tasted tea, seen flowers, and used dishes, and found his favorites of each. That's completely probable. Personally, in my lifetime, I've only seen two operas live, and I'm 18 years old, and they don't seem to have video technology in the world of FFVI. Maybe the Figaro royal family was never really interested in opera. However, tea and dishes are things I wouldn't be surprised at all to find in a castle, and flowers are everywhere.

Someone mentioned how he seems protective...why not apply that to his apparent 'protectiveness' of Gau? For one thing, Gau is significantly younger than Sabin; I wouldn't be surprised if Sabin felt a sense of responsibility to look after Gau the way a father/older brother would look after his son/younger brother (especially given Sabin's monk-like background).

Conclusion: Sabin is not homosexual (or at least the game does not imply that).

Please, don't think dirty.

--------------------

Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

Have you read the entire topic? I've already countered a few of your points:

Quote

As you probably know, most monks and nuns (both Western and Eastern) are not very fond of expressing any interest at all in people of the opposite gender.

Sabin's training had nothing to do with religion, which is further proven by Duncan (who is married and has a son). They only thing monk-ish about Sabin is the fact that for some reason, videa games and RPGs tend to call martial artists monks.

It's unlikely Gau had ever seen an Opera; he understood and enjoyed the concept. Sabin is, concerning culture, displayed there as an unsophisticated barbarian. The favorites simply seem out of character compared to the other impressions you get of him.

Quote

Someone mentioned how he seems protective...why not apply that to his apparent 'protectiveness' of Gau? For one thing, Gau is significantly younger than Sabin; I wouldn't be surprised if Sabin felt a sense of responsibility to look after Gau the way a father/older brother would look after his son/younger brother (especially given Sabin's monk-like background).

I'm not sure what you're saying here, as that was never one of my points. Sabin/Gau is a big brother-like relationship, nothing else, so I agree him being protective. It's just that I've had several makeover tips from girls, while...NOT from any guys.

Quote

Please, don't think dirty.

Nobody here has ('cept for Silverlance with his Relm x Interceptor mentioning, but that was a joke).

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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth

I've heard this theory before. I think it's entirely possible he could be gay. Hell, with fourteen characters, someone probably is, right?

EDITED TO SAY: And the most important evidence? He pings my gaydar. Then again, though, so does Setzer, so, um. LOOK OVER THERE

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Or we can just do what Sirius/Lupin fans did and decide that it can go either way.

A splendid notion, Mana!

This post has been edited by L. Cully on 15th May 2005 11:23

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the day he is delivered.


Eternal Sleep, Track 1-1: The Blue Planet

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She's into beastiality, and her relationship with Interceptor is quite obvious. She even takes him up to her room, for crying out loud.  Who are we to judge Sabin when an UNDERAGE PRETEEN girl takes a DOG up to her room?! Square obviously had FAR bigger fish to fry than Sabin's sexual deviance; Relm was a much riper subject.

Have you read that awful fanfiction too?

...Wait, what?

You're joking, right? Please tell me you're joking.

'Friad not. They're a few out there, actually. I'd link to 'em, but not only would I be banned on the spot, I just wouldn't feel right about indirectly forcing several people to gouge out their eyes. Plus, UGH!

I do, though, agree about Ed's possible homosexuality. Two main points being 1) I could understand how he'd be familiar with his brother's taste in tea, but why it the world would he pay attention to such minute details as Sabin's favorite dishes and flowers? It may just be a clash of cultures here, but how often does a man enter another man's house and immediately pinpoint who lives there based on the wafting scent of sunsoaked flowers and the matching table set? Also, 2) The "I LOVES TEH CHICKS!!11!" attitude always leaves me skeptical. Edgar, Irvine, Zidane - they all go *ping ping* on the old 'dar. Edge, though, seems much too Rydia-clingy to be a candidate. These other guys, excluding Zidane in the very end, tend to flirt around constantly yet almost facetiously, as though they aren't entirely serious about hooking up with who they hit on. Seems like a front to me.

I could just be over-analyzing - like almost everyone in this topic - but that's how I interpret it. Apparently Edgar being non-hetero is not at all an unpopular theory. Could also be coincidence, but ya never know.

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Quote (L. Cully @ 15th May 2005 06:19)

I've heard this theory before. I think it's entirely possible he could be gay. Hell, with fourteen characters, someone probably is, right?

The statistics are in favor of one of the characters not playing ball for the hometeam.

If you include Vicks, Wedge, Banon, Leo, the two ghosts, and the 11 moogles from the Narshe cave, you have yourself 30 characters. My money's on Edgar, Kumama, and, obvious as it is, Terra.

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

So Sabin = gay and Edgar = gay.

Inevitable twincest follows.

For Sabin and Gau, I also had the big brother vibes. I mean, if it was Relm they had to display to her father, there’s no good reason to suggest that she would change her appearance. But Gau is barely even clothed, so Sabin’s suggestion wasn’t all that surprising. I didn’t think that he was giving clothes tips, just trying to make Gau look less wild so his father would accept him.

As for Edgar and Setzer, it seems inevitable that people would suspect flamboyant womanizers of being gay. It's just the way it is.

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and, obvious as it is, Terra.

Silverlance, any love I have felt for you is now gone.

Quote (manapriestess @ 15th May 2005 12:52)

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and, obvious as it is, Terra.

Silverlance, any love I have felt for you is now gone.

Awww... don't be like that. C'mere and gimme a hug.

It's pretty obvious that Terra had a thing for Locke (safety blanket...) and later, Leo, so she wouldn't be anything more than bi. If at all. But then again... there WAS that one scene in the japanese version after you revive Leo when Ghestal joins you where Terra turns down Leo and confesses her feelings for Celes... No no, really, there is! Seriously!

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

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But then again... there WAS that one scene in the japanese version after you revive Leo when Ghestal joins you where Terra turns down Leo and confesses her feelings for Celes... No no, really, there is! Seriously! 

That should go in the "Rumors" section


Serioulsy, I don't think that any characters are gay in FF6. I understand that you have what seems like evidence, but it just seems like too much of a stretch to be true. Who knows? You may be right, but I, for one don't think Sabin (or anyoen else from this game) is gay.

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~ Aurora, exhale bloody air! Dark Holy! ~

I think you're all stretching here. I doubt anyone associated with making the game would have gone through the touble to insert all of these little clues with the purpose of indicating that anyone is homosexual. You're all just stringing together some unrelated details to make a pretty strange coincidence.

But, for the sake of arguement...

Sabin did spend many childhood years at Figaro, as a prince. No doubt he was learning many princely thinks, like clothing (thus explaining the make-over, which Setzer makes fun of anyway), the tea, and other facets of royal culture. He may not have been very interested (like the opera), but some of it had to rub off on him.

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Short opinion: I don't think he's even remotely gay.

Long opinion: He had lots of opportunities to flirt with both guys and girls and he did neither. He's probably just got a low sex drive and doesn't care too much what you think of him ("Let's make you over!"). Could be a side effect of his training or a distaste for Edgar's flirtatiousness that shaped his own personality.

His personality's also not really that uncommon. IMO, it's more of a stretch to say he's gay than to say he's hetero.

But if we could be realistic here; like Bahamut says, if the writers wanted to make him gay they'd just come out and say it at some point. In the mid-nineties, they wouldn't have gone through the trouble of masking so much stuff within the dialogue so you'd have to guess... especially not something of that magnitude. These days, maybe, back then, no. Plus there was a stigma, so they'd be leary of making him gay anyways.

This post has been edited by Zephir on 15th May 2005 22:42

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Quote (bahamut0013 @ 15th May 2005 14:08)

I doubt anyone associated with making the game would have gone through the touble to insert all of these little clues with the purpose of indicating that anyone is homosexual.

I agree with Bahamut0013. I don't think that they would make any character gay.

Nor do I think that any character from any Final Fantasy is implied to be gay.