Posted: 7th June 2012 07:14
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Seems someone's written a series of essays attempting to "reverse-engineer" the design decisions that went into the development of Final Fantasy VI.
http://thegamedesignforum.com/features/rev...sign_ff6_1.html I've read the first page so far but I have to go to sleep now. I'll read the rest later. Hat-tip to DYRE at It Just Bugs Me! for digging this up. -------------------- Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing. You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey ) |
Post #200406
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Posted: 7th June 2012 12:02
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It's funny, that link came up in chat about two months ago, from Lasz, I think? While it's really interesting stuff in theory, I didn't have the attention span to get all the way through it, myself.
-------------------- "To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN? |
Post #200410
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Posted: 19th June 2012 03:57
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![]() Posts: 2,674 Joined: 9/12/2006 Awards: ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I just got through the 8-page article, and I'm amazed about how much research they put into the project. They researched the percentage of dialogue, distibution of items and weapons, and pacing details, just to name a few, in astonishing detail.
Among the most interesting ideas were: The "long game;" which is the idea that FFVI's dungeons were built on surviving the entire dungeon rather than one fight, a marathon rather than sprint in other words. The use of multiple parties in dungeons and a focus on gear rather than stats to equal the main characters out. The use of NPCs for different roles, such as an in-game strategy guide, and story communication. There are many other things discussed, including Nobou's ingenious score and how it conveys story. In short, anyone that wishes to delve into why FFVI's storytelling is so great, this article will help. -------------------- |
Post #200474
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Posted: 19th June 2012 06:08
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![]() Posts: 970 Joined: 23/4/2004 Awards: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Yeah I didn't post after I read it, but everybody should read that article. Agree with essentially everything they said.
-------------------- I fear my heart and fear my soul Life goes on, it surely will, Without me and I wonder: Will I ever see light again? Life goes on... |
Post #200475
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Posted: 19th June 2012 22:09
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![]() Posts: 512 Joined: 5/12/2002 Awards: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Thanks for the link. There's a lot of good stuff on that site.
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Post #200482
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Posted: 20th June 2012 02:51
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![]() Posts: 2,674 Joined: 9/12/2006 Awards: ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote (Iain Peregrine @ 19th June 2012 18:09) Thanks for the link. There's a lot of good stuff on that site. I agree, and I think they have a donate button if anyone's interested. They should be supported, because video games need more intellectual criticism. So far I've read this and a review of Super Smash Bros., and those two articles were as insightful as any I've read regarding the medium. And for those that are wondering, this is not a completely biased article; it doesn't simply rave about the game. While it points out FFVI's brilliant design choices, there are a few criticisms mixed in as well, and they are valid critiques. -------------------- |
Post #200487
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Posted: 29th June 2012 23:19
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![]() Posts: 743 Joined: 4/11/2004 Awards: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Eheheh, seems like I've accidentally clicked the submit button a bit early, my impressions so far are that a lot of thought has gone into this but perhaps at the oversight of some rather important nuances. I'll make another post (or edit this one) later but to stay on topic here are some thoughts on sections I've read so far.
The quest to save the world from destruction seems more overarching than the mere whim of the moment Kefka had in Quests and Quest Structures. The basic idea that's conveyed rather explicitly, time and time again is that the world's magic is a destructive force that shouldn't be tampered with lightly. It's mentioned rather explicitly in the world's back-story in the opening narrative. It's also at the very least alluded to by various non-empire characters at several points, such as the conference in The Returner's hideout or when Strago discusses the possible consequences of Ultros' attempt at stealing those golden goddess statues in the cave leading up to the Esper's Gathering place. The characters have had saving the world from destruction as at least a set aside motivation. On linguistic breakdown, I have to criticize the decision to use an english translation as the basis of script proportionality. My understanding of the situation is that Japanese is a highly condensed language when compared to english. Because of this Ted had to throw out a considerable portion of his original and more accurate translation in order to meet data size restriction based limitations. Assuming that's not just hyperbole, the translation was as many as 3-4 times longer before the cuts were made, meaning if the final script was approximately twenty thousand words long (scarcely qualifying as a novella), his original translation was sixty to eighty thousand words long (making it a story that could at least encompass a full blown novel, if not possibly two). It's worth further noting that this much cutting, it doesn't seem like it'd take much to skewer the proportionality of the lines granted to each character in the script, particularly where close contenders, namely Kefa and Terra are concerend. Like I said though, more thoughts on this later. It's quite a bit to digest all at once. I'm particularly interested in this concept of metonymic time he's referring to, especially if it can help me make sense of how the nonlinear portion of the story's plot. This post has been edited by Tonepoet on 30th June 2012 01:03 -------------------- |
Post #200543
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Posted: 30th June 2012 08:14
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![]() Posts: 330 Joined: 26/4/2007 Awards: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
lol i just saw a post from these guys yesterday talking about this breakdown. i thought it was a very nifty feet and a FF VI with some time to kill would enjoy this im sure. i am a fan but don't have the time so i sadly can't read the whole thing.
on a side note that some of you might find interesting. They're planning on doing the same thing to chrono trigger next. at least according to the post i read from them. -------------------- He's Back. He is The_TrueBOSS. Check me and my partners out at: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheTrueBOSSofJupiter |
Post #200544
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Posted: 26th July 2012 02:52
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![]() Posts: 970 Joined: 23/4/2004 Awards: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
They finally finished their Chrono Trigger reverse-design
http://thegamedesignforum.com/features/rev...esign_CT_1.html -------------------- I fear my heart and fear my soul Life goes on, it surely will, Without me and I wonder: Will I ever see light again? Life goes on... |
Post #200760
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Posted: 8th October 2012 02:17
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![]() Posts: 75 Joined: 7/3/2010 Awards: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
So much interesting things to read... and college keeps getting in my way. the comments you guys posted left me curious, so i will read ASAP.
Quote ... video games need more intellectual criticism. Just a side note (or compliment, but not trying to be off topic), one of the things that made me read CoN forums (much before i even registered) is that this community really discusses games with some intellectual level, and that's great. ![]() -------------------- Live Long and Prosper! |
Post #201230
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Posted: 8th October 2012 05:55
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Quote (Sherick @ 25th July 2012 22:52) They finally finished their Chrono Trigger reverse-design http://thegamedesignforum.com/features/rev...esign_CT_1.html I actually read the CT one before I reach the FFVI one, which caused me some difficulty where I had to go back and look at their ways of categorizing. I found it interesting, actually, that these two projects would go down, and then months later FFVI then CT would be picked for the number 1 and number 2 spots on IGN's top 100 RPG list. After reading them both though, I feel I better understand why I've always personally felt that CT was the superior game. The way the reverse design breaks down the flow of action in the game into that graph with the red representing battles and the blue as dialogue was particularly brilliant, and was certainly revelatory to me in my understanding of my own reactions to the game. -------------------- If you've been mod-o-fied, It's an illusion, and you're in-between. Don't you be tarot-fied, It's just alot of nothing, so what can it mean? ~Frank Zappa Sins exist only for people who are on the Way or approaching the Way |
Post #201232
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Posted: 9th October 2012 00:51
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![]() Posts: 2,674 Joined: 9/12/2006 Awards: ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote (MogMaster @ 8th October 2012 01:55) Quote (Sherick @ 25th July 2012 22:52) They finally finished their Chrono Trigger reverse-design http://thegamedesignforum.com/features/rev...esign_CT_1.html I actually read the CT one before I reach the FFVI one, which caused me some difficulty where I had to go back and look at their ways of categorizing. I found it interesting, actually, that these two projects would go down, and then months later FFVI then CT would be picked for the number 1 and number 2 spots on IGN's top 100 RPG list. After reading them both though, I feel I better understand why I've always personally felt that CT was the superior game. The way the reverse design breaks down the flow of action in the game into that graph with the red representing battles and the blue as dialogue was particularly brilliant, and was certainly revelatory to me in my understanding of my own reactions to the game. Wouldn't that be awesome if those articles had an influence on that? Look, I now think that anyone thinking one of the two is better is understandable. Both games are phenomenal enough for game designers to break down how exactly they were so great. I need to read through Chrono Trigger's. CT does many things extremely well, especially near the end when the game begins to get philosophical about time and whatnot. (Side note: I'm thinking about double majoring in political science and economics, and I've been inspired to name my thesis based off of Chrono Trigger.) The Genodome, Luca's sidequest, and the part with Azaela are some of the greates moments in gaming history. But for me, FFVI has always been the most impressive game I've ever played. But both are, for me, the two best JRPGs ever created (actually, on a personal note, Pokemon Blue would be in the middle of them, but yeah, those three are tops for me). But FFVI is so grandiose and operatic, and this reverse design shows how they pulled that off by streamlining the game. -------------------- |
Post #201243
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