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So says the game's director, Motomu Toriyama:

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We think many reviewers are looking at Final Fantasy XIII from a western point of view. When you look at most Western RPGs, they just dump you in a big open world, and let you do whatever you like... [It] becomes very difficult to tell a compelling story when you're given that much freedom.

Sources:
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/artic...CVG-General-RSS
http://kotaku.com/5472712/square-eni...estern-reviews

Apparently, if you find fault with the relative lack of content that it has in comparison to older FFs, it's not that you're making a valid comparison within the same series -- it's that you're holding a Japanese RPG to a standard of western games.

Now, even as someone who loves FFXIII, I just want to say that this statement is really stupid.

Call it a creative choice and move on, but don't insult people's intelligence.

Moderator Edit

"f***ing retarded" ... "don't insult people's intelligence". Pointing this out, then asking you to tone down the language, please. -Neal

This post has been edited by Neal on 17th February 2010 18:32

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My Final Fantasy VII Plot Analysis

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" — Edmund Burke

Pretty stupid indeed.

Even beyond the same series comparisons - I'm sorry, Square, but there are plenty of Western games nowadays with a heck of a lot better overall storytelling and immersion than anything in the Final Fantasy series, while remaining much more open.

If you can't get well reviewed and rated over here, it's time to either stop making excuses and compete with modern games instead of remaking the same game in a different hat again and again and again, or accept that you'll become increasingly limited to a market that's supposedly happy with that.

Personally, I've nothing against a linear story if it's well enough told, however - Dreamfall, for instance, was shorter than shorts but I enjoyed it immensely. But you have to accept that Square Enix isn't the only house that knows how to tell a story any more, and it certainly isn't a world leader in that department. In that environment, you're going to need something distinctive to shine out in a market that's all but forgotten Final Fantasy 7.

This post has been edited by Tiddles on 17th February 2010 19:44

Pretty much complete agreement with everything you said.

I love FFXIII as much -- if not more -- than the next person, but I've seen the reactions, especially by western reviewers, and I can see the writing on the wall. Now Square needs to.

It's time to step up their game or prepare to lose ground.

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My Final Fantasy VII Plot Analysis

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" — Edmund Burke

I agree with both of you, and I'll add that he seems to not know much about the whole 'open-world' idea either. It's not about dumping someone in a sandbox, that's a whole different genre; western RPGs are more like a busy street with one main direction and loads of different tertiary avenues which are linear in their own right. The freedom he talked about is deciding which road to take and which time. This applies to games from Oblivion to Deus Ex to GTAIV to WoW.

I don't mind linearity too much, but RPGs that tell one good story whilst giving out plenty of other smaller stories are better for so many reasons: it adds depth and complexity to the world, it's more believable, important NPCs don't feel like checkpoints, and the rewards of new items or equipment is a lot better with some plotline rather than just a random boss or a random chest. I haven't played FFXIII, obviously, but even with FFX the story moved like a bandwagon up the map and took any interesting stuff with it, leaving a sort of desolate staticity in the towns and people. It's like watching an average stage performance then going backstage afterwards to see everyone as their normal selves not really doing anything special. If that's what a good story is, or game even, then he's got his head screwed in wrong.

Like you said S of S, what's really bizarre is that FF has done a huge amount of this kind of subquesting game structure before in FFVI and FFXII, yet they turn their back on it for FFXIII under the guise of poor storytelling. It's stupid, FFVI has some of the best storytelling of the series and I feel it's at it's peak in the WoR. As a mildly clued-in reader I'd say the linearity has more to do with the obscene production time and cost, or I certainly hope so. Like FFIX, FFXIII is going to need an incredibly good story to keep me entertained.

Seriously, this apparent dismissal of criticism bodes really poorly for SE's future direction. To be honest I don't think they've got it in them to make something distinctive, like Tiddles says. If what they're doing keeps selling, and it does, then they probably won't want to risk it.

Oh S of S, I could be wrong, but you probably could've submitted this in the news if you didn't already know.

Moderator Edit

This was going to end up in my tidbits this week, if I get around to writing them, yes. -R51

This post has been edited by Rangers51 on 18th February 2010 02:32

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

Quote (sweetdude @ 17th February 2010 21:03)

It's stupid, FFVI has some of the best storytelling of the series and I feel it's at it's peak in the WoR.

I couldn't agree more. The reason is, while it is more nonlinear, the story never loses its direction. That's honestly one of the reasons that VI's story is so amazing. Without sequential events, it still feels like a story.

One of those Western RPGs that tells a great story without linearity: Fallout 3. Much like WoR, the story is not sequential, but you are immersed in the world and you realize the main idea or plot (that the world has been nearly destroyed and turned into a dystopian universe, and something must be done to set it right).

I agree, just say it's because you wanted to do it that way, and you like that style better, and yeah, don't insult us.

Which, by the by, is something that grinds my gears about Japan. What do they think we are, idiots? I hear things all the time about them lowering the difficulty of games when they bring them over and stuff like that.

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Praise Be To Helix!

The best part of all this is that they can't seem to remain consistent on the reason for the game's linearity. Sometimes they acknowledge that it's due to production time and difficulty working with the hardware, and even confirmed that they had to leave quite a bit of stuff out, while at other times, they insist that it was planned this way all along.

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My Final Fantasy VII Plot Analysis

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" — Edmund Burke

Quote (Squall of SeeD @ 18th February 2010 10:20)

The best part of all this is that they can't seem to remain consistent on the reason for the game's linearity. Sometimes they acknowledge that it's due to production time and difficulty working with the hardware, and even confirmed that they had to leave quite a bit of stuff out, while at other times, they insist that it was planned this way all along.

I know, when they just have to say, "We like linear games. That's the way we like telling stories." I like linear games, and the way stories are told in them, I don't get what they're doing here.

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Praise Be To Helix!

I don't keep up too much but supposedly the game's just not selling too well. Since Final Fantasy is more or less Square's lifeblood I'd probably be a little haughty and worried too, when the FF trademark starts losing value. It is more or less their livelihood after-all.

Still, it's quite a bad idea to tell the customers they have bad taste because you're not selling as expected. Making a public statement like this just terrible customer service. If you think the integrity of the product is more important than the bean counting, you kinda have to realize you're going to be serving a more of a niche market and plan accordingly to make a maximal profit.

As far as linearity goes, I find there's nothing wrong with a linear plot as they can be used to rather good effect. Take Final Fantasy IV for instance, from beginning to end almost every event is preplotted in sequential order and because of that, the story's able to unfold in a very elaborate fashion. Gameplay on the other hand should be left open as the only thing keeping a game from becoming a chore is that the individual can play around with it. To allow the player to exercise in divulgences such as wilderness exploration and sight seeing in villages does a fair bit to help that in RPGs and makes the world seem more complete.

To keep it short, nudge us where you want us to go if you must but if you make us feel like we're on rails with no input whatsoever, well then, we'd rather watch a movie than play a game! XD

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Role reversal at its finest.

Quote (Tonepoet @ 19th February 2010 02:37)

I don't keep up too much but supposedly the game's just not selling too well.

I would disagree with this. Since it's sold almost 2 million copies in a country with only about 4 million PS3 owners, it sounds like it's doing very well.

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My Final Fantasy VII Plot Analysis

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" — Edmund Burke

Game Informer gave FFXIII a great rating, but if you actually read the review, it's all about how just about every aspect of the game is pretty lame. They like the combat system... but it's too easy. They like the leveling system... but you still can't really change your characters. They like the story and characters... well, actually, they really don't.

This is going to be the first Final Fantasy game since I started playing that I skip or wait to buy used. If the point of a JRPG is to railroad the player through the story (which is not something I have a problem with!), doesn't it follow that the story and pre-designed characters need to be in some way compelling?

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Veni, vidi, dormivi.

Quote (karasuman @ 19th February 2010 15:49)

Game Informer gave FFXIII a great rating, but if you actually read the review, it's all about how just about every aspect of the game is pretty lame. They like the combat system... but it's too easy. They like the leveling system... but you still can't really change your characters. They like the story and characters... well, actually, they really don't.

A lot of that could be seen as nitpicking. We do it all the time. I've seen people rail on FFVI, and then call it their favorite game. I've done that too. There may be individual pieces that they may not like, but when it comes together they love it.

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This is going to be the first Final Fantasy game since I started playing that I skip or wait to buy used. If the point of a JRPG is to railroad the player through the story (which is not something I have a problem with!), doesn't it follow that the story and pre-designed characters need to be in some way compelling?

My only answer would be to ask whether or not you've played it, but since you said you haven't bought it, I'm going to assume you haven't played it. That being assumed, how can you know whether the story is compelling or not without playing it? I could tell you right now that a certain game has a good story, but you might not like it.

There's obviously a reason they gave it a high rating.

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Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (BlitzSage @ 19th February 2010 16:19)

My only answer would be to ask whether or not you've played it, but since you said you haven't bought it, I'm going to assume you haven't played it. That being assumed, how can you know whether the story is compelling or not without playing it? I could tell you right now that a certain game has a good story, but you might not like it.

There's obviously a reason they gave it a high rating.

The thing is, it being Game Informer, I think that the reason they gave it a high rating is that it's Final Fantasy XIII. That magazine is worthless as a source for reviews, and I generally only flip through it to find out that games exist--not to form an opinion of them. But for GI to have an almost entirely negative review for such a big title is almost unprecedented, and one possible explanation is that the game is so bad that they just couldn't help themselves. The high score wasn't optional, but they really couldn't find much to say about the game that was positive.

Considering how the GI staff generally looks down on RPGs or any other game that requires a time investment without nonstop action to cater to their ADD needs, a slam like this may not mean much. I don't know. What I do know is that I'm a graduate student without much money or time to spend on video games. I don't have $60 to blow on a potential Valkyrie Dragoon Ocean VIII just to prove that I'm a ginormous fangirl. If it sounds like the amount of enjoyment I expect to get out of it justifies the price, I'll buy the game. That just might not happen until it's $19.99 used at GameStop.

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Veni, vidi, dormivi.

Quote (karasuman @ 19th February 2010 17:35)

If it sounds like the amount of enjoyment I expect to get out of it justifies the price, I'll buy the game. That just might not happen until it's $19.99 used at GameStop.

Oh well, your loss, lol. I'm actually waiting too, until the price drops.

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Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (BlitzSage @ 19th February 2010 16:19)

There's obviously a reason they gave it a high rating.

To please Square and keep GI on the list of industry press who get an early copy.

While I love GI and actually quite enjoy its reviews, if you're looking at the numerical rating it provides, you're looking in the wrong place for anything of value. I've seen them give games a 6 and not say a single positive thing about it in the review itself.

That number is just there to keep the developers/publishers happy, as they know most people who are considering buying a game that they aren't quite sold on will look at an aggregate of review scores rather than reading the reviews themselves. GI does things this way to keep the big wigs happy with them while also providing their honest opinions to those who care enough to take the time to read them.

Quote (karasuman)

This is going to be the first Final Fantasy game since I started playing that I skip or wait to buy used. If the point of a JRPG is to railroad the player through the story (which is not something I have a problem with!), doesn't it follow that the story and pre-designed characters need to be in some way compelling?

I will say that the characters don't disappoint. The story will at times, and the gameplay/story integration -- or lack thereof -- definitely will (remember the highway chase out of Midgar in FFVII? Imagine multiple exciting sequences like that, but you only get to watch), but I still think it's quite awesome.

It's a decent story with great characters, well-executed interactions, and powerful characterization. Maybe not enough to incite a release-day purchase, but it's definitely something to at least watch on YouTube or Viddler play at some point.

This post has been edited by Squall of SeeD on 20th February 2010 15:26

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My Final Fantasy VII Plot Analysis

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" — Edmund Burke

Nice to see you on here again, SoS. I missed your insightful posts on the world of gaming.

I have no intention of buying FFXIII. Everything I've heard about the game leads me to believe it will be another Square game with beautiful graphics, where the game itself consists of waiting for dialogue to finish and then hitting the X button. That's entirely the reason I jumped ship from this, what was once my favorite series, after FFX.

Granted, I was excited about FFXII based on what I heard about it. Even with the departure of Amano, Uematsu and Sakaguchi, it sounded like an expansive and innovative game with a new battle system and hours of gameplay. It even made me think that perhaps all the series needed was an infusion of new blood. Still haven't played FFXII yet (bought it after moving and haven't recovered my PS2 yet...AND of course I bought my PS3 after they removed the PS2 backwards compatability ) but I look forward to the day when I do.

FFXIII has failed to capture my excitement. It looks like a retreat to the tired old format of turn based RPG without any of the charm of the older games. This newest report of linear gameplay further affirms my suspicion that it will be little more than an interactive movie. Unless it dazzles me upon release I'll wait to borrow it from a friend. My next "must have" RPG purchase is probably the expansion pack to Dragon Age.

Thanks for the warm welcome back, MMB.

I say definitely play FFXII. The Gambit system may take some getting used to, but I think you'll enjoy that game very much based on your comments here.

As for FFXIII -- and this is, again, based on your comments here -- I think that it should be a rental for you, or something you borrow from a friend. You'll either be so disappointed with it that you don't finish, or you'll play it once and never care to again.

I don't doubt that most people will appreciate the characters, story and presentation thereof (graphics, music, camera direction, etc.), but for many, that will just mean it was very good at being an interactive movie.

This post has been edited by Squall of SeeD on 2nd March 2010 11:59

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My Final Fantasy VII Plot Analysis

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" — Edmund Burke

Well, I was looking forward to XIII for awhile, especially wen I heard about Versus. However, I still don't own a PS3, and with the way things are going, I don't plan to for quite some time now.
This game doesn't seem like it will be what I was expecting anyway, so that doesn't help with the initiative.

If any of you are interested in a review of the game you can watch these videos. The narrator is an English teacher who lives in Japan and speaks Japanese fluently (he's reviewing a Japanese copy). In the three parts he gives his view of the pros and cons. I will warn you though, he swears, A LOT! If you're offended by swearing, don't watch any of these videos. I put them up because I think they're good (and hilarious).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9TsjjG9X2s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YDhIkrQDug&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJSRnrD5p5g&feature=related

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Climhazzard is the timeless evil robot who runs some of the cool stuff at CoN (mostly logging chat, since there are no quizzes at the moment), all the while watching and waiting for his moment to take over the world. -Tiddles