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why didnt they use a pheonix down on aeris?

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Im smarter then you. If you disagree then press Alt F4

Because she died. Phoenix down revives from getting knocked out.

Analogy time.

In Warhammer 40,000's fluff, a hundred Space Marines can slaughter a modern army and lose about three marines.

In the game, they can fail to even kill a single enemy during a game.

In Command and Conquer, massed rifle infantry can blow up a tank. In FMV's, they don't stand a chance.

What's that prove? Battle Mechanics in games don't apply outside of battles. FF7 is no exception.

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"Only the dead have seen the end of their quotes being misattributed to Plato."
-George Santayana

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here..."
-Abraham Lincoln, prior to the discovery of Irony.

Because that's how Final Fantasy get their memorial moments.

Just look at these:

FF2:

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

You saw Cid, Gareth (Dragoon Guy), Joseph, Scott (Gordon's relative IIRC in the beginning), Mindu, and any others if I forgot die in the game, and the characters never used "Phoenix Down" or "Life" on them.

FF3:

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Elia, Dorga, and Unne die in the game, but you don't see any revival except their spirits living in a different vision of the world. And Desh totally never died.

FF4:

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

FF4 had the weirdest scenes in my opinion. Yang, the Twins, and Cid supposedly die. But you see them return in the airships while you attack the Giant of Babil. The only characters that trully died were Anna and Tellah. Why should you try to revive them? I mean, when someone dies it's very sad and unforgettable but when someone is revived it's all happy and stuff and takes away the memorable title in my opinion. You couldn't even unstone the Twins with a Soft. But somehow they are revived as part of plot

FF5:

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Dorgan, Stella, Galuf, Kelgar, Werewolf, Syldra, Zeza, and King Tycoon all died in FF5 as the plot went on and the main protagonists STILL could not revive them. Well Butz, Lenna, and Faris tried to revive Galuf but instead he stayed dead and faded. If he was revived, he would be less remembered today. That's why the characters had to stay dead.

FF6:

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Locke actually REVIVED Rachel with a Phoenix Esper. He could have done it faster with a Phoenix Down but it would be a little silly and not really a big deal. Rachel gave away her last words to encourage Locke to live on with his life and find someone else who shares the same love he shares with Rachel.. Then she sacrificed herself to restore the power of Phoenix, but she wasn't revived anymore.

FF7:

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

"WAHH!! Revive my Aeris!!!" If Aeris was revived just because she got stabbed by some Katana she occassionally rather gets injured in battle and not killed, then it would take her famous moment and make it unimportant. That's why I have so many fanboys of FFVII at my school whining about Aeris dying. Pitiful stupidity.

FF9:

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Mog dies.. Even Queen Brahne dies. But you don't even try to revive her unlike in FF5 when Galuf died. Final Fantasy's tradition to famous character deaths is to often saying or doing something to remember them as a memorable character.

In my opinion, I think it's best to leave characters dead this way so we can remember and learn from their experiences when we want to save someone's life or lives. If they were revived, it would look stupid and it would be hard to remember their memorability if they are revived back to life and kicking.

That's why we think about Gareth, Joseph, Mindu, Elia, Unne, Dorga, Tellah, Anna, Galuf, Zeza, Kelgar, Lonewolf (not much), Syldra, Rachel, Aeris, Mog, and Brahne so much as famous characters.

The way I figure it, HP represents your ability to stay aware and conscious after taking a solid blow, to dodge an otherwise fatal attack, and so forth. "Dying" in battle merely means being knocked out, running out of stamina, and so forth. Numbers don't make you immune to being run through by a sword, after all.

Outside of battle, it's no different. If a character gets stabbed through with a sword or shot in the head, it's just as deadly as if it occured in battle. The difference is that, in battle, the character is able to soak up the damage either by dodging the attack, parrying it, or otherwise preventing it from causing a fatal wound. In an event, the character just gets plain unlucky and isn't given that chance.

For that matter, a KOed character could be bleeding to death and would die if not treated soon. If everyone ends up KOed, well, they're good as dead. But once the battle's over, a character can receive proper treatment (bandages and the likes.) It's a game though, so mechanics like these are all abstracted through simpler systems.

Bottom line is, getting "hit" by a sword in battle isn't the same thing as being run through by one in an event.

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Don't compare battle mechanics to the 'real world'. xD

Edit: I hope everyone knows what I'm referencing.

This post has been edited by Zeromus_X on 24th April 2006 23:34

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OSonic Rave
/ \Last Arcanum
[ ]Strike Raid
XRagnarok

Quote (Silverlance @ 24th April 2006 18:34)

The way I figure it, HP represents your ability to stay aware and conscious after taking a solid blow, to dodge an otherwise fatal attack, and so forth. "Dying" in battle merely means being knocked out, running out of stamina, and so forth. Numbers don't make you immune to being run through by a sword, after all.

Outside of battle, it's no different. If a character gets stabbed through with a sword or shot in the head, it's just as deadly as if it occured in battle. The difference is that, in battle, the character is able to soak up the damage either by dodging the attack, parrying it, or otherwise preventing it from causing a fatal wound. In an event, the character just gets plain unlucky and isn't given that chance.

For that matter, a KOed character could be bleeding to death and would die if not treated soon. If everyone ends up KOed, well, they're good as dead. But once the battle's over, a character can receive proper treatment (bandages and the likes.) It's a game though, so mechanics like these are all abstracted through simpler systems.

Bottom line is, getting "hit" by a sword in battle isn't the same thing as being run through by one in an event.

I don't get what you're saying.. So if a character is "knocked out", then that would mean they could return in battle after some other battles during that condition without using a Phoenix Down or Life spell. And besides, RPGs aren't meant to emulate reality. So even if they are "knocked out" and in most RPGs you could see them alive and kicking but back in battle they'll keep the "knocked out" status.

RPG and real life don't share much in common.

Well, there were some RPGs where characters were automatically revived with 1 HP (See Chrono Trigger), but still "unconscious" will last until you "revive" them or finish the fight by escaping or beating it.

This post has been edited by NeoEx-Death on 25th April 2006 00:00

Plus, the same thing applies to Seto. Red 13 didn't use a soft, so why should Cloud be allowed to use a Phoenix Down? I think, Aeris is dead. Let her RIP. It may be cruel, but its real (in the game, at least.)

She can't come back becouse it whould mess with the story.

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"You know that feeling you get when you're on a merry go 'round, and you want to jump off to make the spinning stop, but you know it'll suck when you land? I feel like that all the time"- Keno

"I stab my girl until I fall down"
-Yukari
Do you like Horny Bunnies?

this is all true but applying to the soft situation, in FFIx

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Blank gets petrified, but they use the supersoft to revive him, why couldn't seto?

.

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there was no supersoft in FFVII. and Seto had been hit with so many stone arrows no soft could unstone him

notice that when somebody "faints" or is wounded(FFVI) in battle it doesn't say dead next to their name. Aeris died because

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Sephiroth stabbed her with a 6 foot blade that went through her spine and diaphram

Even in games characters can't survive something like that

This post has been edited by Cloud_Strife510 on 27th April 2006 01:45

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"Have you ever seen a baby do that before?"

well i agree with that it does give something to the story line in that clousd has to get revenge on sephiroth and they killed off one of my weakest characters...yay (those of you who found my statemant morbid deal with it lol jk)

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Marion Gaborik is my hero :D

Well heres some reasons why they didn't use a pheonix down on Aeris cus:

-They hate her?
-They didn't know about holy by then so they didn't know her importance
-Cloud was too mad at Sephiroth to while holdin Aeris so he just wanted to pwn him
-Maybe they didn't bring any?
-And finally Who can stand up to the MasaMune?! scary

This post has been edited by Dragon King on 12th July 2006 22:32

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Kel'Thuzad: She is persistent. Reminds me of you, death knight.

Arthas:Shut up you damned ghost.

-Warcraft III Kel'thuzad comparing Arthas and Sylvanas Windrunner.

Okay, I found it.

Quote (The Grand List of Console Role Playing Game Cliches)

# "Mommy, why didn't they just use a Phoenix Down on Aeris?"
Don't expect battle mechanics to carry over into the "real world."

xD

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OSonic Rave
/ \Last Arcanum
[ ]Strike Raid
XRagnarok

Quote (Cloud_Strife510 @ 26th April 2006 20:44)

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

there was no supersoft in FFVII. and Seto had been hit with so many stone arrows no soft could unstone him

notice that when somebody "faints" or is wounded(FFVI) in battle it doesn't say dead next to their name. Aeris died because

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Sephiroth stabbed her with a 6 foot blade that went through her spine and diaphram

Even in games characters can't survive something like that

Like I said in my previous post in this topic: If anyone was unconscious or wounded, then they would eventually recover without doing anything to call them back in a fight. Besides, if they were really wounded, we should have rather used Potions and Cures on them, which is not allowable in most RPGs (as far as I've played). Also, enemies wouldn't just *ignore* the "unconscious/wounded" characters. If they did, RPGs would really turn into a downfall for me.

I know RPGs do not need to follow realism on every bit, but having enemies ignore "unconscious" characters is just down-right stupid to me.

Let's just leave Aerith dead this way and get on with our lives. It's not like she contributed anything important in the story. She was useless just like Rosa and Rinoa plot-wise.

IIRC In FFIIInes, it says dead next to their name when they go to zero. Can anyone confirm this?

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Dead Winter. A nice comic.

Quote (Barrylocke @ 4th May 2006 07:48)

IIRC In FFIIInes, it says dead next to their name when they go to zero. Can anyone confirm this?

If you're referring to a translated ROM, I dismiss that entirely. If the localisation was not overseen by Square directly, I don't think it matters a bit in terms of a discussion of how the canon handles "death."

Now, if someone plays the original language ROM and can confirm that the text translates exactly to "dead," then that would hold more weight, at least to me.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

Quote (Zeromus_X @ 30th April 2006 22:44)

Okay, I found it.

Quote (The Grand List of Console Role Playing Game Cliches)

# "Mommy, why didn't they just use a Phoenix Down on Aeris?"
Don't expect battle mechanics to carry over into the "real world."

xD

Uhm... Kind of feel I saw that sort of thing before...

Quote (Del S @ 24th April 2006 18:48)

Analogy time.

In Warhammer 40,000's fluff, a hundred Space Marines can slaughter a modern army and lose about three marines.

In the game, they can fail to even kill a single enemy during a game.

In Command and Conquer, massed rifle infantry can blow up a tank. In FMV's, they don't stand a chance.

What's that prove? Battle Mechanics in games don't apply outside of battles. FF7 is no exception.

Am I talking to myself?

I am? Well, I don't wanna talk no more, all you do is tell me that the new Snow Patrol album is awesome.

Quote (NeoEx-Death @ 4th May 2006 07:34)

Let's just leave Aerith dead this way and get on with our lives. It's not like she contributed anything important in the story. She was useless just like Rosa and Rinoa plot-wise.

All three women were catalysts, vital to ensuring the plot could continue. Rosa was used against Cecil and Kain to manipulate them, Rinoa, whilst operating under a plot with more holes than a fishing net, was vital for Time Kompression and all that jazz, and if Aeris had not suffered being impaled by Sephiroth's mighty chopper* the plot would probably have got kind of stuck. How can you say they are useless to the plot when they're actually vital?


*fnar fnar.


And Dragon King RE "who can stand up to masamune," two questions: How long have you got? And define "who? "

This post has been edited by Del S on 4th May 2006 14:29

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"Only the dead have seen the end of their quotes being misattributed to Plato."
-George Santayana

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here..."
-Abraham Lincoln, prior to the discovery of Irony.

Quote (Barrylocke @ 4th May 2006 06:48)

IIRC In FFIIInes, it says dead next to their name when they go to zero. Can anyone confirm this?

correct (josh: the word 死亡 [sibou] is used, sugegsting thast the character died), but by ff4 the system had clearly changed to suggest that the 0 hp character was simply temporarily out of commission.

Quote (NeoEx-Death @ 4th May 2006 06:34)

[Let's just leave Aerith dead this way and get on with our lives. It's not like she contributed anything important in the story. She was useless just like Rosa and Rinoa plot-wise.

What are you talking about!?! Rinoa was a huge part of FF8

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

She was the one who transported the gang to Ultimecia's castle! Shes the one who now has Sorcress Edea's powers without her Ultimecia would rule!

Back to the point......Aeris had a pretty big part!

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

She was supponsingly to show the way to the Promised Land altough Shin-Ra does without her. And shes the only Ancient so she can Summon Holy shes a big part.And that made Cloud hate Sephiroth even more when sephy stabbed Aeris

This post has been edited by Dragon King on 6th May 2006 20:14

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Kel'Thuzad: She is persistent. Reminds me of you, death knight.

Arthas:Shut up you damned ghost.

-Warcraft III Kel'thuzad comparing Arthas and Sylvanas Windrunner.

Quote (gozaru~ @ 4th May 2006 14:59)

Quote (Barrylocke @ 4th May 2006 06:48)

IIRC In FFIIInes, it says dead next to their name when they go to zero. Can anyone confirm this?

correct (josh: the word 死亡 [sibou] is used, sugegsting thast the character died), but by ff4 the system had clearly changed to suggest that the 0 hp character was simply temporarily out of commission.

Gotcha, thanks.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

Quote (NeoEx-Death @ 4th May 2006 01:34)

I know RPGs do not need to follow realism on every bit, but having enemies ignore "unconscious" characters is just down-right stupid to me.

Wouldn't taking out of commission the ones that can still hack you to bits be more of a priority than the ones that are no longer a threat?

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Thank you Del S and Dragon King I'm glad some body stood up for a couple best characters of the series and noticed there uses.

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Remember the days were mages were Black or White or Red and Black Belts were cool? Well i bet you still hate the thief till he became the Ninja. I bet you do now lol it's great to be back

Ultimately bring Aeris back to life would be a huge problem anyways. From what I believe Aeris needed to be part of the lifestream (dead) in order to use the holy spell so bringing her back to life would mean that she could not use it.

Arghh..this irritates me...she died, let her rot...if you want herto live, write a fan fic but just let this die like she did, please...

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This is a webcomic and gaming blog where I rant about nonsense. Enjoy.

I was a soldier, now I just play one in video games.

games dont always make a lot of sense...for example

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

your characters survive a supernova with sephy's attack in the end, you get attacked by a wall (in the temple of the ancients) and there is for some reason a big spider thing who has no place in the storyline at all guarding the exit to Mount Nibel (Materia Keeper), not to mention everything else there is that I am forgetting to mention right now

This post has been edited by King of Chocobos on 18th May 2006 07:12

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kweh!

Aeris' death is needed to enhance the plot.

She was meant to die and people that whine just want to have you know what with her cause they are nasty. Also if she didnt die Advent Children wouldnt have been made.

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Since cloud was beating himself up over it then came back to pwn all the baddies.

So people need to stop whining and deal with it.

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The voices tell me to stab you.....I mean give you candy filled with razor blades.......thats right candy.

why didnt they ley cloud use sephiroths sword at some point, even the replica from gold saucer
i kno sephiroth is the only person who can wield it but y? cloud shud be able to get it
that wud have been gr8

also is it true that the weapon that attacked junon (an got its head blow off) is called sapphire weapon?

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In the end, it boils down to two simple choices. Either you do or you don't.

If they were able to use a pheonix down on her it would be pointless it would be like actuly fighting somone and standing there geting hit. Its like somone said Battle mechanics dont apply to the real world.

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Finished NSG FFX, Playing FFIV again.