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I have somewhat mixed feelings.

I feel somewhat more compassionate towards sephiroths suffering and cause than to cloud.

I just simply cannot feel sorry for cloud no matter what he does,i despise him with all i am.

But as for sephiroth,i cannot hate him,i feel pitty more than anything else.

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Rants are generally longer and more incoherent. Like so:

First off, you're basically saying you feel for a man who murdered an entire village plus change. He also attempted to wipe out the entire planet in pursuit of godhood. The phrase we're looking for here is Draco in Leather Pants. Regardless of his past, which isn't really all that tragic and the one people should feel sorry for his his actual mother.

Even the "puppet of Jenova" theory makes him a massive loser, not a victim. It makes Jenova the true villain of the piece, and him just the pretty-boy pawn. Sephiroth is pathetic, but not worthy of pity. He is a miserable failure. He fails to achieve any goals he has, he is defeated by someone who should theoretically be much weaker not once but numerous times.

Not feeling sorry for Cloud... Yeah, fair enough. All he has is his hometown destroyed by someone, his mind and memories messed about with by mad scientists. In fact if we drop the first part we have the same tragedy between Cloud and Sephiroth. Difference is, Cloud didn't annihilate a town. Yes, Cloud does his morally questionable acts (Terrorism anyone?) but you can't feel sorry for Sephiroth and not feel sorry for Cloud since they've basically gone through the same or similar tragedies. To do so is hypocritical fanboyism of the lowest order.

He is not the woobie. He is not the tragic villain. He's just a pathetic loser with good PR, a failure. Accept that.



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"Only the dead have seen the end of their quotes being misattributed to Plato."
-George Santayana

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here..."
-Abraham Lincoln, prior to the discovery of Irony.

I'm with Del S on this one. Even if you are not a fan of Cloud, he is still as if not more derserving of sympathy than Sephiroth.

Cloud isn't perfect, but he never shows the level of selfishness and disregard for other lifeforms displayed by Sephiroth.

This post has been edited by ILoveMoombas! on 30th June 2009 20:26

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FF games completed: I (psp), II (psp), III (DS), IV (psp), V (GBA), VI (GBA), VII, VIII, IX, X, XI: Nations-Rhapsodies of Vana'diel, XII, XIII, XIV, XV.
Spin-offs: FFIV: Interlude & The After Years, Crisis Core: FFVII, X-2, XIII-2, Lightning Returns, Type-0 HD, Dissidia, Dissidia 012, and Tactics (original & WotL).
Enjoyed them all.

Quote (ILoveMoombas! @ 30th June 2009 20:20)

I'm with Del S on this one. Even if you are not a fan of Cloud, he is still as if not more derserving of sympathy than Sephiroth.

Cloud isn't perfect, but he never shows the level of selfishness and disregard for other lifeforms displayed by Sephiroth.

I only played ff7.

I never saw advent children

I never played crisis core or any of the spin offs so all i know is what i saw in ff7.

And what i saw in ff7 well it was very confusing and damm right about the translated thing being bad.

And sephiroth does show more emotion than cloud does you know.

Cloud is really cold towards tifa and all he cares about is his job.

And then all the sudden he has feelings for aeris after being a total asshole during the whole game? WTF?

I'm no fanboy.I am not doing this to make a favoritism and that anybody point out such a point is preposterous,as i also like other ffs.

The one thing i can agree with most ff7 fans is that ff8 sucks.



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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 30th June 2009 18:23)

I have somewhat mixed feelings.

I feel somewhat more compassionate towards sephiroths suffering and cause than to cloud.

I just simply cannot feel sorry for cloud no matter what he does,i despise him with all i am.

But as for sephiroth,i cannot hate him,i feel pitty more than anything else.

Sorry but really feel the opposite way. Hate Sephiroth. Feel sorry for his crappy childhood and he's a very attractive man.. but just feel like Sephiroth is just a very arrogant and self-centered ... well jerk..

Sephiroth thinks that his past and pain is more important than other people's pain and suffering, and because of that. He destory's Cloud's life. By slaughtering his mother. He damages Tifa's life. By hurting her with a deadly wound with his sword. Not to mention killed her own Father. Sephiroth also ruined Zack's dream of later wanting to become a legendary hero. If Sephiroth didn't attack Nibelheim. Zack would of had no reason to run and escape..

Not to mention. Sephiroth tries on many tries to screw up Cloud's mind and lead him into some sort of Schizophrenia. Sephiroth uses the illusion of Jenova to mock with Cloud's head and even murder Aerith/ Aeris right in front of his eyes.

Cloud is cold ? Yeah because of Sephiroth and his father's horrible experiments. Cloud fails to know his own identity, so he pretends to be somebody else. He pretends to act cold, because he believes it's ''cooler''.

Sephiroth shows more emotion than Cloud ?

Quote

Sephiroth-  " Stop pretending that your going to cry, you have no tears. '' Your a Puppet ''

Quote

Cloud -'' M-My hands are shaking, my mouth is dry. I don't know what to say. Aeris is never going to be able to move again. Never to speak..

Looking above it seems like Sephiroth is more emotionless and cold and could really give a crap-less about Cloud's pain after loosing a friend. While Cloud is screaming in pain and is really showing true emotions.

Let's see how many times Sephiroth has hurt/ damaged Cloud

: Cloud looked up towards Sephiroth and looked up him towards him like a Father Figure or even a role model. However Seph betrays that's trust. By burning down his hometown.

: Cloud is later stabbed in the stomach/ lower chest by him. While Sephiroth mocked him while he was stabbed by this pain. About how weak he was.

: Sephiroth hurt Tifa and almost killed/ murdered Tifa. His only friend.Sephiroth had tons of supporters and Friends. But Cloud struggled to find one Friend during his lonely childhood. And she was almost killed.

: Sephiroth teases Cloud into hitting/ slapping Aeris and not only giving the Black Materia to him. Imagine being controlled to hurt a closed friend. That would screw anybody up.

: Sephiroth later kills Aeris and tries to even make Cloud be the one to murder her. If Seph had his way, Cloud would of had to live with more pain and regret.

: Sephiroth later mind- screw's Cloud into thinking that he has no past and no future. That he was worthless and created tool with no purpose. He later tricks him into summoning chaos into the world. And tricks him into thinking that he's to blame and should apologize for all the pain he's caused. [ When he hasn't really caused or triggered any pain at all, it was Sephiroth..]

Still hate Cloud ?

Sorry but. Just Hate Sephiroth sooo much..
[ screws up a bunch of paper and rips them up in frustration.. ]

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 30th June 2009 18:23)

The one thing i can agree with most ff7 fans is that ff8 sucks

Not all fans dislike Final Fantasy VIII. :/


This post has been edited by ZidaneTribal on 1st July 2009 03:14

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Currently playing Chrono Trigger !!
Currently looking forward to Don't Know.

First of all, THAT ^ was a rant. I'm impressed by your stamina, really!

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The one thing i can agree with most ff7 fans is that ff8 sucks.

I'm obliged to say here that I love FFVIII.

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the one people should feel sorry for his his actual mother.

Ahaha... ha.

I'm gonna agree. In FFVII, there isn't much of a sympathy card for sephiroth. You recognize that he was once a decent guy, and that he kinda drove himself crazy. I guess you could feel a little sympathy for that, and of course the fact that he was experimented on like a long-haired rat (but so was Cloud... and tons of other people).

But I don't see any strong reason for sympathy. Vincent? Yes, definitely. Cloud? Perhaps not. Barrett? Yes. You can at least feel bad for Cid, given that his program and dream got shut down. There's a good emotional pull for a lot of the game's characters. I just don't see very much in Sephiroth's favor.

Let's all agree Hojo is a big jerk, right?

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Currently Playing : Final Fantasy V
Most Recently Beat : Elder Scrolls: Skyrim
Favorite Game : Final Fantasy X

The newest CoNcast is up! Have a listen!

about hating ff viii and emotion, in disc 3, when

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

rinoa is in a coma and squall is by her bedside

squall shows much more emotion in that one scene than sephiroth in the entire game.





....i personally love ff viii thank-you-very-much

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Aujourdhui a commence avec toi.

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 30th June 2009 22:39)

I never saw advent children

I never played crisis core or any of the spin offs so all i know is what i saw in ff7.

And Del is only referring to FF7 itself. Not to AC nor CC.

I hate both Sephiroth and Cloud, each for his own reasons.

Sephiroth is cliched to the point of nausea: before the Nibelheim incident he was as Mary-Sue as a SOLDIER could get (I invite anyone to challenge this claim if they believe I am wrong), he then discovered/remembered that he was a man-made monster and decided to fry a town and hack away at the world. He also somehow developed an Oedipus complex really fast while reading up on himself in the library.
I did in fact warm up to Sephiroth a bit while playing Crisis Core, but after Nibelheim that went out with the trash. He's an okay guy while he's still "human".

Here are some things for which I DON'T hate Cloud.
He's blonde.
He can balance a gun vertically in his hand while shrugging.
His life's dream didn't come true and instead of becoming a member of SOLDIER he joined the Shinra Security Force as a regular grunt.
He looks fine in a dress.
He got controlled and his mind gets messed up by his nemesis who used to be his role-model.
He has bits of the memory and personality of the coolest character in the series.

However, Cloud is a boring character to me.
That's a terrible flaw for a main protagonist.
He's also painfully annoying and sometimes stupid.
Some of the things he says and does just make me slam my head against the nearest wall.
Sure, I feel for him, but it's more like "Okay, you're a poor guy, your life's gone down the gutter, I get it. Now leave me alone."

What was shown of him in Crisis Core also did make me warm up to him and since:

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

he only wakes up from his coma at the very end of the game and has no time to whine

It didn't go to waste.

As to showing emotion, I'll reach to NGE for an explanation.
Basically, Cloud is cold to avoid people close to him getting hurt.
As we all know that didn't work.

Edit

I need to preview my posts more.

This post has been edited by SilverMaduin on 1st July 2009 08:15

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"I fell off the mountain of words at around the 10,000ft mark. Tell my family...they owe me money." -Narratorway

"If you retort against this, so help me God I'll shove any part of your anatomy I can find into some other part. Figuratively, of course." - Josh

"We have more, can deliver tuesday." - Del S

Good old CoN

Quote (SilverMaduin @ 1st July 2009 08:12)

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 30th June 2009 22:39)

I never saw advent children

I never played crisis core or any of the spin offs so all i know is what i saw in ff7.

And Del is only referring to FF7 itself. Not to AC nor CC.

I hate both Sephiroth and Cloud, each for his own reasons.

Sephiroth is cliched to the point of nausea: before the Nibelheim incident he was as Mary-Sue as a SOLDIER could get (I invite anyone to challenge this claim if they believe I am wrong), he then discovered/remembered that he was a man-made monster and decided to fry a town and hack away at the world. He also somehow developed an Oedipus complex really fast while reading up on himself in the library.
I did in fact warm up to Sephiroth a bit while playing Crisis Core, but after Nibelheim that went out with the trash. He's an okay guy while he's still "human".

Here are some things for which I DON'T hate Cloud.
He's blonde.
He can balance a gun vertically in his hand while shrugging.
His life's dream didn't come true and instead of becoming a member of SOLDIER he joined the Shinra Security Force as a regular grunt.
He looks fine in a dress.
He got controlled and his mind gets messed up by his nemesis who used to be his role-model.
He has bits of the memory and personality of the coolest character in the series.

However, Cloud is a boring character to me.
That's a terrible flaw for a main protagonist.
He's also painfully annoying and sometimes stupid.
Some of the things he says and does just make me slam my head against the nearest wall.
Sure, I feel for him, but it's more like "Okay, you're a poor guy, your life's gone down the gutter, I get it. Now leave me alone."

What was shown of him in Crisis Core also did make me warm up to him and since:

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

he only wakes up from his coma at the very end of the game and has no time to whine

It didn't go to waste.

As to showing emotion, I'll reach to NGE for an explanation.
Basically, Cloud is cold to avoid people close to him getting hurt.
As we all know that didn't work.

Edit

I need to preview my posts more.

Yeah i admit that i hate shinra and hojo more than sephiroth.

His whole reason for being simply doesn't convince me,and cloud even less.I find cloud can be every bit just as cold as sephiroth,but sephiroth's real reason for his act was out of anger and madness.

His true coup de gras was the fact that he found out that he was experimented on.

The killing of an entire village is nothing in comparison to the evil of prince luca blight or kefka who murdered alot more people coldy and is simply more hateable and convincing as a villain.

Yeah i guess i could feel a little more sorry for barret losing his child.I admit i didn't like him at all and felt little towards him.

Vincent was a little more interesting with the whole thing of being experimented on and so was cid.

Btw can we all agree that hojo and shinra are the 2 most evil characters in ff7? I mean how much worse can you get than to experiment on your own child?

Shinra didn't care if he destroys the world,proof is that avalanche exists as a enviromental group.They would have never existed if midgar was a enviromentalist.All he cares about is is money and politics and creating weapons.

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

I didn't find Sephiroth very pitiable... I mean, him being a man of such concieted blind arrogance as to get his ass kicked by a ShinRa grunt enraged over the seemingly slaughtered bodies of his mother, best friend, and childhood sweetheart/love interest...

Sephiroth is nothing to really pity. An interesting character and adequate villian yes, but the last thing such an arrogant man would want is pity, am I right?

Cloud on the other hand... Well yes he can be given pity but... At least he get's a happy ending with some orphans and the hot chick he always wanted. I pitied Cloud through disc one, but nothing more beyond that.

Now Aerith. Aerith I pity greatly for. Zack as well.

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"It's Tifa's attitude that matters! Nothing else!"- Cloud.

"I knew one thing for certain, Cloud and Tifa would be together, everyone would be where they belonged."- Nojima

They reveal their mutual feelings for eachother in the lifestream, and come to live together in AC and beyond. - FFVII Ultimania Omega

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 1st July 2009 14:42)

His true coup de gras was the fact that he found out that he was experimented on.

Somebody get this kid a dictionary.

"Coup de grace" is NOT "turning point".

Also, Barret is totally, completely irrelevant.

Vincent has dealt with being a monster and an experiment much better than Sephy, that's true, has this dark-and-brooding attitude that annoys me from time to time.

Hojo and Shinra evil?

They fit the sterotypes of Mad Scientist and Greedy Corporate Executive easily, but Shinra's more of a temporary nuisance.

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Especially since he's sliced up quite early on and his son takes over

Hojo is arguably the key villain behind FF7.
Jenova, Sephiroth, Genesis and Angeal IIRC, Nibelheim, Vincent, the Tsviets, you name it. And the best part is, he probably wouldn't even admit to being evil. That's a good villain for you.

Quote (TaintedWhispers)

Now Aerith. Aerith I pity greatly for.

I don't. Pity I didn't get to kill the annoying broad myself.

Also I feel no pity for Zack. I feel sad for him, but I don't pity him. Pitying is like looking down on someone in most aspects - I look UP at Zack. He kicked ass, he had the flair, he had the lines, he was fun and awesome.

Edit

fixt

This post has been edited by SilverMaduin on 1st July 2009 22:36

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"I fell off the mountain of words at around the 10,000ft mark. Tell my family...they owe me money." -Narratorway

"If you retort against this, so help me God I'll shove any part of your anatomy I can find into some other part. Figuratively, of course." - Josh

"We have more, can deliver tuesday." - Del S

Good old CoN

Quote

I don't. Pity I didn't get to kill the annoying broad myself.

Also I feel no pity for Zack. I feel sad for him, but I don't pity him. Pitying is like looking down on someone in most aspects - I look UP at Zack. He kicked ass, he had the flare, he had the lines, he was fun and awesome.

Agreed on that one.

Pitied him in the aspect that his 'woman' tried to run off with the nearest blond replacement after he fought *cough* hundreds *cough* of soldiers, helicopters, ect, to come see her aaaaaaaaaaand...

Zacks life and death was glorious, his unfortunate love life...

Ehhhhhhh. It is a pitiable aspect of his character. As small and insignificant as it is.

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"It's Tifa's attitude that matters! Nothing else!"- Cloud.

"I knew one thing for certain, Cloud and Tifa would be together, everyone would be where they belonged."- Nojima

They reveal their mutual feelings for eachother in the lifestream, and come to live together in AC and beyond. - FFVII Ultimania Omega

Quote (SilverMaduin @ 1st July 2009 21:55)

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 1st July 2009 14:42)

His true coup de gras was the fact that he found out that he was experimented on.

Somebody get his kid a dictionary.

C'mon are you really picking him up on 'gras'? 'Mardi Gras' can make it an easy mistake to make. I mean, you said 'get his kid a dictionary' for God's sake! Actually, this is a ranting topic, so I'm going to say that's the worst display of interaction between CoN members I've ever seen.

Quote (SilverMaduin @ 1st July 2009 21:55)

He kicked ass, he had the flare, he had the lines, he was fun and awesome.

Somebody get this kid a dictionary.

Edit

Unless 'flare' is something Crisis Core related...

When I first played FFVII all the intended characterisations sat nicely in my game. I sympathised with Cloud and the other playables; I feared but admired Sephiroth, especially his haunting music; I felt pangs every time Aeris appeared, was mentioned or her music played. Nowadays I look at it a bit more objectively but only to enjoy it from a different perspective.

I suppose if you let yourself get really involved you can explore all the other possibilities. I must admit that I wouldn't think pity is something that could be applied to Sephiroth. The only parts that you could really sympathise with is his not being supreme ruler of the world or finding out that he was an experiment in super-soldiers, neither of which is particularly sad. Hey he should be happy he's got a cause to fight for and the means to do it. That's more than you can say for a lot of other people.

This post has been edited by sweetdude on 1st July 2009 22:09

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

Listing failure as one of the reasons you don't like Sephiroth is kind of a moot point. He's the main villain in a Final Fantasy game, it was his destiny to ultimately fail in the end. And he's had Cloud defeated on at least three separate occasions, but was too arrogant to finish him, which is probably the only thing the writers could think of to make him lose, considering how powerful he is. On top of all that, his plan in FFVII would have succeeded even after his defeat at the the hands of Cloud and company in the northern crater had

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Aerith not intervened from the FREAKING AFTERLIFE!

Sorry, it's just that I probably do fall into the Sephiroth fanboy category. No other villain has ever inspired the sense of awe that he creates whenever he makes an appearance in FFVII to me, and I won't ever forget that.

This post has been edited by Ruin's Fate on 2nd July 2009 02:49

Quote (sweetdude @ 1st July 2009 18:05)

Quote (SilverMaduin @ 1st July 2009 21:55)

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 1st July 2009 14:42)

His true coup de gras was the fact that he found out that he was experimented on.

Somebody get his kid a dictionary.

C'mon are you really picking him up on 'gras'? 'Mardi Gras' can make it an easy mistake to make. I mean, you said 'get his kid a dictionary' for God's sake! Actually, this is a ranting topic, so I'm going to say that's the worst display of interaction between CoN members I've ever seen.

The way I interpreted his statement was pretty different. I think he used the dictionary to give the definition of "coup de grace", not correct the spelling. Coup de grace is a deathblow, which cannot possibly be interpreted as "turning point" really, which is the context in which it was used. I am fairly certain his intention was not to criticize the spelling of a foreign word.

This is also a rant topic about FFVII and its characters, not a rant topic to say whatever you want to the members here. Just something to keep in mind.

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Is PJ

SM wrote a similar reason over the PM as well. Y'know I completely overlooked the definition problem because the reactor events are a perfect use of the coup de grace expression. The old Sephiroth changes and is then killed by Cloud in spectacular fashion. As far as we're aware at that point, he is still dead, the only evidence otherwise is the earlier use of his sword and that a few people have seen someone in a black cape, both of which are clones rather than the real man. What Magitek_slayer is explaining is, in my view, that the events at the end of the game are not Sephiroth's 'true coup de grace' (his words), it is his finding out about the experimentation which is his downfall and destruction, and I completely agree.

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

Quote (Caesar @ 2nd July 2009 03:00)

This is also a rant topic about FFVII and its characters, not a rant topic to say whatever you want to the members here. Just something to keep in mind.

I am not worried about criticism.

Also as long as you understand me i am fine with that.

It is true there are many things,but i do not consider the whole thing with the reactors is what had the impact on sephiroth.


And yes shinra is very evil.All he cares about is power and money.
He speaks alot and you see as the events unfold what he does.

It is true that cloud is a jerk.excuses don't mke up for how Much of an asshole he can be.

He could pay a little more attention to tifa and give equal attention to both tifa and aeris.




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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Sephiroth was nothing more than a filler character in my opinion. He was much better when he was kefka.

Odd comparison you say, consider this. Both villans were the product of genetic expermintation. Both villans where highly versed in magic and the art of pyshical combat. Both villans were megalamaniacs. Both villans went crazy after a series of tests screwed with there minds (yes sephiroth was pushed by the books he read on jenova, but there were evidences in the game that he was already crazy before that.) And finally both villans had the complete and utter disregard for life, including there own, that made them staples for villans every where.

So conclusion? Sephiroth is just a kefka clone with the back story tweaked a little bit. I find it interesting though that they went a more nordic direction with FF7 than any of the other games. There dozens of references to nordic mythology that were only skimmed on by other games.

Back on topic. I don't like sephiroth for a couple of reasons. One is simply because he's nothing more than a whinny brat. Two because nothing about his story really makes any sense. Three because he again is a clone of kefka. And four because he strikes me as villan who was pasted into the role later rather than having the role made exculsively for him.

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Don't fear the reaper!
Wonderful system this "Democracy" is no mechanism to break a tie -Dinobot-
It's spelled Raymond Luxray Yatch but it's pronounced Throat Wobbler Mangrove.
Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici
Sic Semper Tyrannis bush.

Lockes AlterEgo, I can really tell that you're smarter than the average bear. I find it very difficult to find anything wrong with what you say, so I'll just add to it. Both of them committed atrocities that are eerily similar to each other. For starters, they both destroyed villages/castles. While the methods were different, the mass murder was still the same.

But even closer were the two deaths....

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Has anyone ever noticed how similar Aerith's death was to Leo's. Seriously, look up a video of them and compare. Both were stabbed in the back. We see Sephiroth's blade, but even though Kefka's blade is implied, he still struck him from behind. Really, the only difference was through graphics.

While I don't completely agree with your point, because Sephiroth is by no means a bad villain, I do have to agree that Kefka strongly influenced him. And in the ancient Kefka v. Sephiroth debate, I think that should influence the outcome strongly.

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Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (Lockes AlterEgo @ 2nd July 2009 19:01)

Odd comparison you say, consider this. Both villans were the product of genetic expermintation.  Both villans where highly versed in magic and the art of pyshical combat. Both villans were megalamaniacs. Both villans went crazy after a series of tests screwed with there minds (yes sephiroth was pushed by the books he read on jenova, but there were evidences in the game that he was already crazy before that.) And finally both villans had the complete and utter disregard for life, including there own, that made them staples for villans every where.

So conclusion? Sephiroth is just a kefka clone with the back story tweaked a little bit.

What? He's absolutely nothing like Kefka!

First of all, yes they were both subjects of genetic experiments, but that has no bearing at all on their personality. It's like saying you and I are really similar because we were both born from our mother. Also Kefka isn't 'versed in physical combat' to nearly the same extent as Sephiroth. Kefka is more about poisoning people or stabbing them in the back. He's a general while Sephiroth is a soldier. Sure, both use strong magic at the end to destroy or try to destroy the world, but that applies to just about every magic-using FF villain.

I don't think Sephiroth is a megalomaniac either. Possibly moreso in the compilation, but in the original FFVII he was quite subtle and usually made appearances for only a brief while. Kefka, on the other hand, was a megalomaniac from beginning to end.

Both crazy? Maybe. It depends what you mean. They were both unstable but in entirely different ways. This is the crucial difference which I explained before: Kefka is unpredictably mad while Sephiroth is a cold and calculating kind of evil.

Again, I don't know where this Sephiroth hating comes from. Most of the time it's like reading criticism of a completely different character.

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

Quote (BlitzSage @ 2nd July 2009 20:04)

Lockes AlterEgo, I can really tell that you're smarter than the average bear. I find it very difficult to find anything wrong with what you say, so I'll just add to it. Both of them committed atrocities that are eerily similar to each other. For starters, they both destroyed villages/castles. While the methods were different, the mass murder was still the same.

But even closer were the two deaths....

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Has anyone ever noticed how similar Aerith's death was to Leo's. Seriously, look up a video of them and compare. Both were stabbed in the back. We see Sephiroth's blade, but even though Kefka's blade is implied, he still struck him from behind. Really, the only difference was through graphics.

While I don't completely agree with your point, because Sephiroth is by no means a bad villain, I do have to agree that Kefka strongly influenced him. And in the ancient Kefka v. Sephiroth debate, I think that should influence the outcome strongly.

I disagree with your ff7 and ff8 similarities.

Kefka is a backstabbing psycho who is cowardly at the beginning.

Sephiroth is badly written in my opinion and something about the story doesn't seem to fit.


Sephiroth is serious

Kefka is a clown,lets face it but he has good dialogue and makes us laugh.Nothing wrong with making people laugh,but some people do not like funny villains.

I personally prefer kefka over kuja as a villain,kuja was not really a villain,in the end kuja admits he was angry and veangancefull and when he was dying he admits he was wrong.

Sorry to say but i like characters with a bit of charisma wich is why so many go down on seph and ol cloud.

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

It's FF6, and that's why I thought it was pertinent. Because Kefka came before Sephiroth, we can say that the

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

botched Magitek experiment, the poisoning of Doma, and the killing of Leo and Gestahl all influenced Sephiroth's actions. Because all of those things he did.

I didn't believe until AlterEgo said that stuff, but it is true. They are not alike in personality, but Kefka nevertheless affected some of the storyline elements in FF7. Sephiroth is not a rehash, I am not saying that. But those aspects are almost completely alike. Both are nihilistic, but I do agree that Sephiroth is more serious, cold and cunning; while Kefka is insane, psychopathic, and subtle can't even be in the same sentence.

But I'm not talking about the personalities, but some of the external qualities are mirror images.

This post has been edited by BlitzSage on 3rd July 2009 01:15

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Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (sweetdude @ 2nd July 2009 22:17)

What? He's absolutely nothing like Kefka!

Supreme, graceful, honorable hero-soldier turned evil and insane due to genetic experiments aimed at making a perfect warrior.
Which villain did I just describe?

Quote (magitek_slayer)

And yes shinra is very evil.All he cares about is power and money.
He speaks alot and you see as the events unfold what he does.

I didn't deny him being evil. I dismissed it as a non-point because he was a figurehead that

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

got killed off really quick

Quote (Magitek_slayer)

Kefka is a clown,lets face it but he has good dialogue and makes us laugh.Nothing wrong with making people laugh,but some people do not like funny villains.

Kefka never, not even once(sorry, forgot Figaro Castle) made me laugh during the game. He was total nightmare fuel. He was a creepy bastard and he did it for the laughs. That's right, he basically blasted the world for his own amusement.

Also calling him a coward is actually quite inadequate since he gets sent on a desert mission in what was probably still considered enemy territory backed up by two, and only two, soldiers and still managed to be scary.

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"I fell off the mountain of words at around the 10,000ft mark. Tell my family...they owe me money." -Narratorway

"If you retort against this, so help me God I'll shove any part of your anatomy I can find into some other part. Figuratively, of course." - Josh

"We have more, can deliver tuesday." - Del S

Good old CoN

Quote (SilverMaduin @ 3rd July 2009 03:28)

Quote (sweetdude @ 2nd July 2009 22:17)

What? He's absolutely nothing like Kefka!

Supreme, graceful, honorable hero-soldier turned evil and insane due to genetic experiments aimed at making a perfect warrior.
Which villain did I just describe?

That's hardly a 'Kefka clone' though is it? You're right, they are similar in that they're victims of science, but so are a megaton of other villains. Also, where does it say in FFVI that Kefka used to be supreme, graceful and honourable? As far as I understand he was just a volunteer for these experiments, probably because he already craved power in the first place. I either must have missed those bits you describe, or we've got a reverse Sephiroth effect with Kefka, where imagination replaces actual content of the game.

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

You know, I honestly never even liked Kefka. With his personality and underhanded tactics, he gave me the impression that you could mop the floor with him if you were ever able to actually get your hands on him, and indeed, he is soundly defeated by your party at Narshe( although I admit his magic has some bite to it). That makes for an extremely annoying villain to me. What makes him even more annoying is that he goes on to massacre espers while their attacks don't even faze him. So he goes from getting punked out by your party at Narshe, to becoming an invincible walking genocide, with absolutely no explanations of where the sudden drastic increase in power came from.

To each his own I suppose. To a lot of you guys, Kefka is the epitome of what a villain should be, and I can respect that. But to me Sephiroth is the most awe-inspiring character that I've encountered, video game or otherwise. With all that said, I must say I have noticed a couple of the similarities between them before too, but it's no reason to hate on Sephiroth really, and he's certainly no clone. Plenty of characters share similarities, it's bound to happen honestly. In some ways Zidane is Locke all over again, but he still stands on his own as a character, and I actually prefer Zidane over Locke.

Quote (Ruin's Fate @ 3rd July 2009 13:06)

You know, I honestly never even liked Kefka. With his personality and underhanded tactics, he gave me the impression that you could mop the floor with him if you were ever able to actually get your hands on him, and indeed, he is soundly defeated by your party at Narshe( although I admit his magic has some bite to it). That makes for an extremely annoying villain to me. What makes him even more annoying is that he goes on to massacre espers while their attacks don't even faze him. So he goes from getting punked out by your party at Narshe, to becoming an invincible walking genocide, with absolutely no explanations of where the sudden drastic increase in power came from.

To each his own I suppose. To a lot of you guys, Kefka is the epitome of what a villain should be, and I can respect that. But to me Sephiroth is the most awe-inspiring character that I've encountered, video game or otherwise. With all that said, I must say I have noticed a couple of the similarities between them before too, but it's no reason to hate on Sephiroth really, and he's certainly no clone. Plenty of characters share similarities, it's bound to happen honestly. In some ways Zidane is Locke all over again, but he still stands on his own as a character, and I actually prefer Zidane over Locke.

There is a explanation to his power

he gains his power from the espers and magitek reinforcements.



Sephiroths story seems full of plotholes. and the game goes through to much about the mind game wich gets kind of boring and really aggravating.


As for shinra being a figurehead:

Yes he is a figurehead but he is evil in a subtle way as the turks are and shinra's second in command that you see.The guy i cannot remember his name,you see him in the office with shinra in a reunion.

The turks care nothing about human lives,they are murderers and follow orders.They are evil in that sense that they are brutal killers.

Shinra cares about money and power.He cares nothing about mother earth and he is evil for that reason.

Hojo is also a exemplar villain but he is also crazy wich seems to be many themes in games.I mean it is his fault that sephiroth is angry and even after all that he helps him by empowering him.you remember right guys? when he transforms and you hear that he is actually sending energy currents to make sephiroth even stronger.



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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

If that's the case then why was Gestahl so foolish as to keep enhancing the crazy and unstable mofo? There had to be other suitable subjects. Look at Terra and Celes, they didn't go crazy from the experiments at all. There had to be others, and even if there weren't, why continue to fuel someone like Kefka? To crush a ragtag group of rebels? The Guardian was already doing a spectacular job of that at that point. Was it to contain the espers? If that's the case, why was an army of them completely ineffectual against one guy that gained his powers from their own kind? Why was he so completely effectual against them, using their powers, if it didn't work the other way around?

My guess is:They enhanced him once and he simply practices his magic and became more powerfull.He wasn't very powerfull either to begin with.

He did have some decent line of spells when you fought him in narshe,but even then he was pretty easy to beat and in the cave of summons he was weak as well.

At the village he was pretty strong by then and it seemed he has improved his magics and was quite a competent caster able to fool even leo and the espers and able to turn them into magicite.

Once he got to the statues is when he was trully powerfull and a worthy villain,beforehand he was hiding most of the time behind peoples back.


This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 3rd July 2009 16:33

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 3rd July 2009 10:19)

My guess is:They enhanced him once and he simply practices his magic and became more powerfull.He wasn't very powerfull either to begin with.

Practice makes perfect I guess, but by the same token the espers have been practicing their own innate magical abilities for millennia :/

Quote (Ruin's Fate @ 3rd July 2009 18:33)

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 3rd July 2009 10:19)

My guess is:They enhanced him once and he simply practices his magic and became more powerfull.He wasn't very powerfull either to begin with.

Practice makes perfect I guess, but by the same token the espers have been practicing their own innate magical abilities for millennia :/

It is basicly like this:

Sephiroth also gets stronger and stronger each time there is an encounter and if he didn't it wouldn't be challenging.

Kefka gets stronger each time.

Espers are the source of magic,they start out human and then become espers wich are more powerfull beings that are the source of magic.

I am willing to tell you more but i think you should play final fantasy 6,i don't want to spoil for it.

This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 3rd July 2009 18:39

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.