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CoN 20th Anniversary: 1997-2017
Why does someone else have to obey you?

Posted: 31st December 2017 10:29

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Black Mage
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I think this topic has been coming for a long time.

Why does someone else have to obey you? I'm talking in terms of gaming.

The military and other organizations have command structures. You can get punished for not following orders. ECT.

In terms of games you can play at your leisure how is any author suppose to know what you specifically like?

I know how you feel about games. I've also been in that situation. I can have my cake and eat it too. Though some of it might be too sweet or bland at times.

Since many people aren't going to obey me they will learn from their mistakes or succeed anyway. In any case thanks for trying or keep up the good work. biggrin.gif

This not only applies to creating a game but also playing in it.

This post has been edited by Eagle Caller on 31st December 2017 10:52

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Posted: 31st December 2017 20:53

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Omega Weapon
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Okay, I'm going to say this plain and simple.

Your posts tend to not make very much sense. And this is a good example.

"I think this topic has been coming for a long time."
I don't know about you but this topic sorta appeared out of the blue for me. Why do you feel this topic "has been coming for a long time"?

"Why does someone have to obey you? I'm talking in terms of gaming."
Who obeying whom?

"In terms of games you can play at your leisure how is any author suppose to know what you specifically like?"
What does this have to do with obedience? Are you talking the players obeying the creator? Or are you talking about the players obeying the rules of the game? Or are you talking about the game (dis)obeying a player's intentions?

"I know how you feel about games. I've also been in that situation. I can have my cake and eat it too. Though some of it might be too sweet or bland at times."
1. How does "how I feel about games" relate to the topic of obedience?
2. How do you know how I feel about games?
3. What does "have my cake and eat it too" mean with regards to games? Same question for "too sweet or bland". What do these metaphors mean?

"Since many people aren't going to obey me they will learn from their mistakes or succeed anyway."
Wait, how is this about obeying you? I thought this topic was about games and gaming in general.

"In any case thanks for trying or keep up the good work."
????? I'm just thoroughly confused what you mean.

"This not only applies to creating a game but also playing in it. "
...are you referencing other threads where you feel that other people disagree with your opinions on games, and now you're obliquely mentioning those threads by making another thread about it?

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Posted: 1st January 2018 00:38

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Why does someone else have to obey you?  I'm talking in terms of gaming.

In terms of games you can play at your leisure how is any author suppose to know what you specifically like?

Absolutely nobody has said that, not even in the thread you clearly used as inspiration to create this one. You've created this strawman in your own head.

There's possibly an interesting argument to be made here about whether games are created for the audience or for the creator - just as all forms of creative expression are. That might be an interesting conversation, though I don't think this is likely the place to have it as there's probably no lifeline to throw this particular thread.

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Since many people aren't going to obey me they will learn from their mistakes or succeed anyway.  In any case thanks for trying or keep up the good work. biggrin.gif

I have a strong suspicion you have the cause and effects backwards here, just from what little I've interacted with you. You might want to check your work before turning it in.

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Posted: 1st January 2018 05:56

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Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey)
Okay, I'm going to say this plain and simple.

Your posts tend to not make very much sense. And this is a good example.


Quote (Rangers51)
There's possibly an interesting argument to be made here about whether games are created for the audience or for the creator - just as all forms of creative expression are. That might be an interesting conversation, though I don't think this is likely the place to have it as there's probably no lifeline to throw this particular thread.


These two statements together are why I'm frustrated. I think that the topic of control is an extremely interesting and important one, whether we are talking about political control, video game player freedom, or authorship. That's a topic that I would love to talk about on CoN. But the problem is, I'm confused by your posts. You seem to have deeply philosophical questions at times, which is cool, but the ideas are not complete, and they're usually followed by bragging about your gaming skills.

But I know it's not my place to say anything. Ironically, I have no control over you, so I can't do anything except answer the best and clearest way I can. So, with that being said, I want to try and address the topic. I think that there are rewards and punishments in most video games, and creators are able to exert some control over the game, even in sandbox games. Game designers can make various cues, markers, and rewards to get players where they want them to go. For instance, I just started Breath of the Wild. In the game, after you progress a while, you could go to Hyrule Castle. But the characters explicitly warn you not to go, and it turns you towards other places. Similarly, in World of Ruin in FFVI, you don't have to get any other character than Celes, Sabin, and Edgar. Yet, the game drops hints about the other characters' whereabouts, and rewards you for regaining theme. So, on one hand, the player's freedom appears to be an illusion. But on the other, pathways can be suggested without the player being coerced. This is one of the best things about video games: designers and players combine to create a collaborative experience.

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Posted: 7th January 2018 03:19

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Eagle Caller, I am just going to head straight to my point. The lack of clarity in your posts leads me to wonder if you are seriously trying to stimulate interesting discussions. You are posting poorly strung together ideas on the forums and calling them topics, and then, when asked for clarification, you refuse to give any.

I don't know how to answer what you're saying because you aren't leading me from the general, familiar ideas I might know of to the specific idea or ideas you wish to highlight in a proper, clearly delineated way.

You can't just dump words on the page and call it your first brush stroke. Rewrite, man, rewrite! Rewrite before posting, and ask yourself as you do so "if someone isn't sure what I'm trying to say, how can I make it clearer?" Just because you get the mental shorthand you seem to use doesn't mean other people will. Read your post from an outsider's perspective. Edit yourself, until you get it yourself.

( biggrin.gif lol I made that up.)

I might also add that posting while tired, depressed or otherwise impaired is rarely fodder for a lively topic. Take it from someone who has screwed it up every way imaginable: Rewrite.

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Posted: 16th January 2018 02:40

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Look what I've done.

I think I should return to playing games. Instead of solving problems I've only made them haphazard. I tried but it might not have worked.

I guess I'm trying to hard to find a permanent answer to questions.

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Posted: 19th January 2018 01:03

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Omega Weapon
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I'm sorry if I sounded harsh on you, but I honestly have trouble understanding what you post.

Here's what I'm noticing:

* Your posts tend to contain sentences that kinda make sense on their own, but feel strangely disconnected, so I can't tell what your overall point is. For example:
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All related to the point I'm making. Like almost everything you must struggle with it. No matter the setting it is designed challenging enough and fun enough to play. At least to the standards of games at the time. It has struggles.

Are you talking about the game (Chrono Cross in this case, presumably) "struggling" to be enjoyable because it's poorly designed? Are you talking about the player struggling to complete the game due to the game being challenging? Are you talking about the story involving the struggles the characters go through?

* Sometimes you say things that seem to be unrelated to the point, in strange directions, such as "I'll add emoticons to sound more human." and "This might have to do with being a male but I figure out the combat system first and who my enemies are. I can always figure out the story later/at the same time." This makes me wonder if you are speaking your mind, without doing much to organize your thoughts so as to make them more easily understandable.

* The words you use tend to be strange choices. "It has struggles." is an example of a strange phrasing, because it is very conceptual but lacks context -- usually, conceptual statements like that have some specific context(s) that justify them, but this one doesn't, so your meaning is vague. "While the game might not be ideal, some kind of creativity is introduced." is another example.

* It seems you frequently speak in metaphors and generalities. For example, you speak of "solving problems", and "find[ing] a permanent answer to questions", but haven't really made it clear what those problems and questions are, specifically. An example of a sweeping statement is "I also don't consider all views subjective. That's diminishing the quality of the person. If there is an ideal game for an ideal person then it's only real for as long as either exist.", which is also an example of two different ideas that seem jumbled together in the same line. Overall it sounds like you make a lot of lofty, general statements, very easily, and I can't tell whether that's what you mean, or if you are just trying to highlight a specific situation (e.g. criticizing a specific game).

I'd like to have a conversation about various topics you've raised, because they seem like interesting topics, but it's hard for me to figure out how to respond when they are written in these ways.

This post has been edited by Glenn Magus Harvey on 19th January 2018 01:04

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It Just Bugs Me! - a place to discuss media, real life, and other topics.

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Posted: 21st January 2018 03:04

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I believe there are exactly two possibilities.

1. Eagle Caller is a human being purposely stringing us all along with this ridiculous nonsense.

Or

2. Eagle Caller's posts are artificially generated.

Or some combination of the two. Ban please?

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Posted: 21st January 2018 09:27

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Omega Weapon
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Okay, if you're going to do away with politeness, then I guess I'll volunteer my hypothesis: he/she has a mental condition which makes communication difficult.

This is really not that uncommon.

Moderator Edit
Nobody said anything about doing away with politeness! Therefore, I'll spare any hypothesizing of my own. -R51


Edit (response): I actually meant this as a more sympathetic perspective than Spooniest's post, which I felt was rather rude. I had thought this before he posted, but I didn't want to say it since I was afraid I might come across as rude, but after he posted, I didn't want people to hate on Eagle Caller so I wanted to post something that might be more sympathetic.

This post has been edited by Glenn Magus Harvey on 27th January 2018 18:41

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