CoN 20th Anniversary: 1997-2017
An attempt at perfection - the ideal game.

Posted: 18th December 2017 11:17

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Lets start off that I don't even know if this goes into General Topics or General Gaming. I think it has the same meaning no matter where this is posted.

It feels like to me the ideal game is not about someone else vouching for it but how much you believe in it.

Lets say you can set aside your discrimination you might be left with doubt. There's people out there who don't like fantasy, dragons, magic, and other story elements. This applies to a great deal of things.

At some point you must realize that despite something's flaws you must accept it for what it is. The level of acceptance is based on your ability to not doubt the game. At any point you do so then you've chosen for it to not be ideal anymore.

But maybe there's nothing wrong with that. When you have doubts about things it can still be satisfactory. With more doubt you begin to think it's good enough. Otherwise you wouldn't play it at all.

I don't want to claim anyone could be more qualified than another person. We all have our thoughts and ideas about things. At some point that person might change your mind. Although you realize you hate the game and/or it feels flawed doesn't mean you should feel bad about any enjoyment in it before hand.

Things are only as strong as you are. The best or ideal situation is one that you believe can overcome and/or know when to quit. That's not the same as giving up. That the answer lies in that it's not to say the idea is perfect or not, but your ability to endure. And to know your limitations.

We all have something in common. That we live a life that isn't perfect, or at least one with challenges, and finally some kind of end. The fact that we need to struggle to achieve something feels like the most perfect game you could ever play.

This post has been edited by Eagle Caller on 18th December 2017 11:37

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Posted: 22nd December 2017 17:35

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Erm...

Is that a long-winded way of saying what we each view as the 'ideal game' will differ from person to person as we all have our own subjective views?

If so, I doubt there's anybody here who will disagree.

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Posted: 23rd December 2017 03:11

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Now whose being pretentious? Just kidding because I'd like to hear something that answers our questions once and for all.

I know people claim this game vs. this game vs. that game vs. the game and so on. I'm trying to bring to light why people doubt games over nitpicking about all kinds of things and such.

I'm trying to succeed.

Edit-Maybe I have in a way. Though I will answer the questions begging to be asked.

This post has been edited by Eagle Caller on 28th December 2017 10:59

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Posted: 23rd December 2017 06:13

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I just wanted some clarification. Are you asking whether a game can be ideal? Like, is the quality of a game purely subjective, or are there objective elements that we can rationally observe? I believe in the latter. I can explain my reasons why, but I wanted to make sure that that is what you were asking first.

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Posted: 28th December 2017 11:16

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I'm asking what the idea game is to you subject or objective. It's more about why you wouldn't doubt anything about the game. Other people might have doubts about it and how do you justify your position over theirs?

It sounds like it comes down to nitpicking and rehashing. The real reason we play is for the struggle despite any imperfections in the game. We have better judgment than to release games full of flaws because it might not sell or get noticed.

I hope that answer your questions. Since we all perceive something from an individual point of view it might be unlikely to see things eye to eye.

It boils down to how likely are you to follow something. Can you agree with it enough because you find it valid from some reason? We've discussed before on this forum and elsewhere many of the factors involved.

Like I said I enjoy it for what it is not for what it should have been. When you find new reasons to dislike it then the result is you'll never be satisfied. This is a long post about accepting something regardless of its traits. Unless it's really dangerous or something.

On the other hand when people find perfection and they can all agree on something to be happy then life's a ball.

This post has been edited by Eagle Caller on 28th December 2017 11:22

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Posted: 28th December 2017 18:17

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Quote (Eagle Caller @ 28th December 2017 12:16)
I'm asking what the idea game is to you subject or objective.  It's more about why you wouldn't doubt anything about the game.  Other people might have doubts about it and how do you justify your position over theirs?

It sounds like it comes down to nitpicking and rehashing.


I'm not sure I follow the language you're using in the same way as you do, but what is it you mean when you talk about doubting a game? Do you mean finding things about it you don't like so much?

If so, I think my personal answer to this part is twofold.

First, I guess finding a truly 'ideal' game - one where there is no element at all that you feel anything less than love for - is probably impossible. There are many games I love. Some of these I'd even call my favourite games. That said, there are probably still elements of these games that are, for me, less than perfect. But that doesn't stop me loving them (hell, I'd even go so far as to say that the imperfections of things are what truly enable you to love them - but that's a much deeper philosophical conversation and isn't exactly on topic).

Second, even with my favourite games, I don't justify my position over other people's (or at least I try not to). In conversation, I can explain why these games are my favourites; perhaps sometimes I may even persuade others to think twice about their opinion of these games; but it's not binary. I don't have to be right. They don't have to be wrong. We can each have our own differing opinions and enjoy doing so. Your favourite games don't have to be mine. My ideal game probably won't be yours. That's cool.

I suppose that despite the above somebody could try and empirically determine what is objectively the 'ideal game', but they'd have to establish the criteria they are using to assess this, and frankly, I don't believe they could do this in a truly objective manner.

In line with what I've just said, I wouldn't say it is nitpicking or rehashing. I mean sure, somebody who is determined to 'win' a conversation about great games might do this, but they really don't have to. It's certainly not the only way to have the conversation, unless you're adamant that somebody has to be right and everybody else has to agree or be wrong.

Quote (Eagle Caller @ 28th December 2017 12:16)
The real reason we play is for the struggle despite any imperfections in the game.  We have better judgment than to release games full of flaws because it might not sell or get noticed.


That may be your reason, but it doesn't have to be for all of us. Some of us play for escape, for stress relief, to enjoy a story, or to enjoy the challenge of beating something. I play for different reasons at different times.

I would agree with you that a heavily buggy game is very frustrating thing, but even if I did have the skills to create a game myself (I don't), I'm aware that it is nigh-on impossible to release a product that is completely bug-free. That's just not realistic. And there are many competing interests in the software industry - the designers may be pressured by the producers into releasing something sooner than they'd like.

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Posted: 31st December 2017 10:00

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I'm glad we have an understanding. Even the above post exemplifies the epic struggle to create things.

If you are reading between the lines this topic is a polite response to comparing Final Fantasy games. Someone might unnecessarily bring up on why X is better than Y. I don't mean Final Fantasy 10. The roman numeral X and letter X have two meanings (funny time).

Finally when you enjoy a safe game no one has the right to take it away from you. I will add ideal or not.

This post has been edited by Eagle Caller on 31st December 2017 10:02

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Posted: 31st December 2017 22:13

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Quote (Eagle Caller @ 31st December 2017 11:00)
I'm glad we have an understanding.

I really, really don't think we do.

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Posted: 16th January 2018 14:45

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You did. You reminded me that some people would rather sell a game second rate over waiting for it to be perfect.

On the other hand waiting too long to do something could be worse than doing it too quickly.

An answer is it comes close to indescribable. Without discrimination or doubt there still might be confusion and/or uncertainty about it.

I also don't consider all views subjective. That's diminishing the quality of the person. If there is an ideal game for an ideal person then it's only real for as long as either exist.

This post has been edited by Eagle Caller on 16th January 2018 14:46

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