CoN 20th Anniversary: 1997-2017
can someone explain

Posted: 12th April 2015 06:04

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Onion Knight
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Alright so I never understood why sephiroth has a black angel wing. He has it in Kingdom Hearts too. Does anyone know why he has one and what it means?

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Posted: 12th April 2015 17:46
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Because FF7 is pretentious animoo trash, that's why.

user posted imageuser posted image

This post has been edited by Narratorway on 12th April 2015 17:47

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Posted: 13th April 2015 05:02

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Onion Knight
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Then why even come to the forums you dont have to be so negative just to ruin everyone else's good time

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Posted: 14th April 2015 03:49

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I agree with him, and I can see why CoN is dead if this is what people say to new posters.

I don't care if it was intended as the strongest sarcasm, greeting a new person with sarcasm is the best way to shut down your goddamn forum.

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Posted: 14th April 2015 12:56

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Onion Knight
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Thanks spooniest

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The people I've met and the places I've been all have made me the man I so proudly am.-Scott Mescudi
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Posted: 14th April 2015 12:57

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Black Mage
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From an artistic standpoint, Sephiroth has the black angel wing to make a parallel to him being a fallen angel. With jenove herself being that of a beaten and batter ed god.

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Posted: 14th April 2015 13:24

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I'm sorry about that Matt. I had intended to write a post on this thread, but it kept crashing.

But I was basically going to write what chevleclair did. The actual imagery comes from the Apocryphal book the Testament of Solomon, where a one-winged demon with an unpronounceable name, Abezethibou, is one of the fallen angels that descends alongside Beelzebub, another name for the devil. According to the story, he is the demon that hardens Pharaoh Ramses' heart in the Book of Exodus, causing him to not allow the Israelites to leave until the tenth plague.

(Interestingly enough, the Bible has God say during the Burning Bush story that he will harden pharaoh's heart. The inclusion of demons was a way of explaining that part. But this is another subject.)

Abezethibou also controls Tartarus, or Hell. This is interesting because it shows that the imagery comes not just from Jewish/Christian legend (it was probably written by a Christian), but it also shows influence from Greek mythology.

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Posted: 15th April 2015 01:36

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Onion Knight
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wow that's really interesting actually I never thought it was that deep

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Posted: 15th April 2015 18:15

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I think on a simpler and more shallow level, it also serves as a visual reminder of Sephiroth's inhumanity - he is not 'one of us'.

Whilst your view on its status as canon may differ, the wings play a more prominent part in Crisis Core, with multiple characters possessing one or more wings. The game includes repeated stronger allusions to judeo-christian mythology and angels. There's still no substantive explanation for the wings, but an arguable logic is that they are the result of Jenova cells being implanted/present within the foetus.

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Posted: 15th April 2015 19:56

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I like to think of it that he's in a liminal state, in-between good and evil. Then again, I think you're right, because none of us are devils or angels. Sephiroth can't choose between good or evil, because he's inhuman. What makes it so interesting is the tragedy that is represented in his angel wing a demon wing, especially if you compare it to Kefka's imagery. Kefka has elevated himself to godlike status, and his heavenly imagery is the exact opposite of the evil that he truly is. It's interesting to me why they would use Judeo-Christian mythology for two villains in a row.

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Posted: 16th April 2015 00:30
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Quote (Spooniest @ 13th April 2015 20:49)
I agree with him, and I can see why CoN is dead if this is what people say to new posters.

I don't care if it was intended as the strongest sarcasm, greeting a new person with sarcasm is the best way to shut down your goddamn forum.

Oh I was being quite sincere. Self-deprecating had the Simpson's ref not gone over y'alls head, but absolutely genuine.

FF7's undeniably drenched in the cheap pulp stylings of the anime cliches of its day, including its use of Judeo-Christian imagery. Blitzsage wasn't talking about any parallels the game was making, just where that imagery originated from. The reason the game itself used it is...

user posted image

Like Stitlz says, it's just a quick visual shorthand using another culture's religious mythology to make it feel 'exotic' and 'super cereal u gais'. It's about 'deep' as horns on viking helmets.

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Posted: 17th April 2015 12:10

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The angel wing, as I interpret it, is a reference to the poem Paradise Lost, in which Satan is cast as a Fallen Angel who has rebelled against God and Heaven.

This is not in the Bible.

Lucifer said in Paradise Lost "It is better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven."

That is Sephiroth. He wants to wipe out all life on Gaia and become what he thinks will be an omnipotent being. What the angel wing is meant to tell you is that Sephiroth is evil. He's like FF7's devil.

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Posted: 20th April 2015 12:03

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Quote (Narratorway @ 15th April 2015 20:30)
Oh I was being quite sincere. Self-deprecating had the Simpson's ref not gone over y'alls head, but absolutely genuine.

FF7's undeniably drenched in the cheap pulp stylings of the anime cliches of its day, including its use of Judeo-Christian imagery. Blitzsage wasn't talking about any parallels the game was making, just where that imagery originated from. The reason the game itself used it is...

Like Stitlz says, it's just a quick visual shorthand using another culture's religious mythology to make it feel 'exotic' and 'super cereal u gais'. It's about 'deep' as horns on viking helmets.

I got the reference, but you have to admit posting four times a year and one of them being written that way isn't the best look for someone. The post quoted above was actually much better for getting that point across, FWIW.

I think there are several posts here that combine to create a pretty good explanation, but honestly, all of the Judeo-Christian influence is very much simply that, and it doesn't negate the "because it's cool" argument. Religious mythos is cool, and I think there's a natural tendency for people to look at religious iconography that is not their own and find it inherently more interesting. As implied above, it's even a bit of cultural appropriation, though in this case quite benign (or at least I think so).

And Spooniest, please feel free to spin up a new topic explaining to us all that CoN is dead. I also like to show new members that as soon as possible so they haven't any need to stick around. dry.gif

Edit
Edits for clarity.


This post has been edited by Rangers51 on 20th April 2015 15:04

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Posted: 20th April 2015 17:38

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I would buy the because it's cool argument if the references were simply design elements interspersed on some semi-important bosses, but the fact that they used angelic iconography on two consecutive main villains is evidence to the contrary for me. Kefka's angel wings and the half-angel half-demon imagery for Sephiroth are key to their themes.

Quote (Spooniest)
The angel wing, as I interpret it, is a reference to the poem Paradise Lost, in which Satan is cast as a Fallen Angel who has rebelled against God and Heaven.

This is not in the Bible.

Lucifer said in Paradise Lost "It is better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven."

That is Sephiroth. He wants to wipe out all life on Gaia and become what he thinks will be an omnipotent being. What the angel wing is meant to tell you is that Sephiroth is evil. He's like FF7's devil.


It's not in the canonized Bible, at least in the Hebrew Bible and the Protestant Old and New Testament. Some of it ended up in the Apocrypha of the Catholic Bible. But a lot of that tradition stems from long before Paradise Lost. Angels and demons began to enter into Jewish scripture after Hellenization and before the Hasmonean period in 2nd century BCE, when the latest books of the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament were written. It is in that three hundred-year period of writing in between the last of the Hebrew Bible and Christian scriptures when a lot of the imagery we know today was incorporated into the tradition (angels, the devil, heaven and hell, apocalyptic literature, messianic literature, etc.).

I believe that it's more like Sephiroth is not completely evil. Part of him is, and has done horrible things, but part of him does not want to do this.

One last thing: I've been preparing a Final Fantasy marathon this summer, and this topic has made me realize how much I miss FFVII. There was a time when I would have never thought I'd say that.

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Posted: 21st April 2015 04:13

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I've always took it as a sign of Sephiroth's inhumanity. Jenova herself/itself can shift and turn into just about anything, so I think the wing has to do with being part of Jenova. The three Jenova test subjects (Genesis, Angeal, and Sephiroth) all had wings. In fact, Genesis has the counterpart to Sephiroth's wing...

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Posted: 23rd April 2015 10:32
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Quote (Rangers51 @ 20th April 2015 05:03)
The post quoted above was actually much better for getting that point across, FWIW.

And now that I think about it, it's not even correct. I mean, yeah FF7 is animoo trash, and yeah, they're use of any level of imagery is vapid and shallow, but that has nothing to do with why they gripped on the Angel wangs specifically. I'm pretty sure that was just because it's a FF game and it's not a FF game unless you kill God. And let's face it, 7 did nothing if not worship that preening tit.

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