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FF6 - The Series Capstone.

Posted: 14th January 2017 02:44

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Final Fantasy VI is an interesting find, indeed. I do not imagine many who purchased it not knowing FF or knowing what to expect from it after 2 (IV) was out on SNES were displeased in the least.

I'd read that FFIII was in production, but understood at some point that the numbering between continents got messed up, or something (I'd have this explained by a website years down the road). So when I saw EGM previews of FFIII for the first time, I remember thinking "Oh, so this is a different game that's being released here as 3. I wonder if it's 5? Well whatever, it looks colorful. Who's the green haired girl? It isn't Rydia. Locke seems like a nice update on the Thief class from FF1, he looks just like I would expect a pickpocket to look, this Edgar guy's tools look interesting...hm. Who's Shadow?"

I got it for Christmas of 94 or 5 or something. I had played it previously at a friends house, the Doma Plains after the Imperial Camp section. He did not know that he was supposed to go to the Phantom Forest, this friend had a bad habit of not reading the onscreen instructions. I did not know what was coming next, but I don't really recall if we continued through to the end of the Phantom Train right then, or if we got killed in the boss fight, or something. I recall having read the instructions and told my friend that Pummel was not the only Blitz (we'd played a lot of SF2 over the years), and he was impressed that I figured that out, he'd said.

Anyway, when I finally got it, I sucked it up and said "screw using a guide. I got this."

I did pretty well up to a point. I don't know what my answers were the first time I did the imperial banquet, but I believe I went to the Toys R Us and looked it up one day (I had a habit of sneaking info from guides there. I'd ride my bike up to the mall and back just to get a cheat code sometimes. I had a pretty good memory as a kid biggrin.gif ).

Anyhow, i continued without a guide, cuz even when I looked up the answers to stuff in the guide, I decided I did not want to know what was coming next. I chose not to spoil the game for myself...I'm pretty sure that's the way it was.

This had one unfortunate side effect; I entered into the Floating Continent without any foreknowledge of what was coming. When I saw that, I saw it blind. I kind of expected that this would be where we beat Kefka and Gestahl will use the Statues' power to like, take over the world, or something.

When that lightning bolt hits Gestahl, there is a little light that goes off deep in an immersed first-time FF6 players' heart. Hole. Lee. Crap.

I just couldn't believe it was happening when it did. The villain is...wait, that guy was the villain! His own henchman just killed him! And his henchman is...

Uh.

Uh. Uh. Uh.

Crap.

And to top it all off, I had no idea where the ground was going to crack, no idea what I'd done with my Sprint Shoes (I think i sold them and said "I'll walk for the extra relic slot").

You tell me where you think I'm going with this.

Yeah, uh, I got the guide when Springtime came, and it was like getting a letter from the army saying your friend died or something. Shadow cannot be brought back if you jump before the 5 second mark. I jumped exactly before I should have, I'm talking literally nanoseconds before Shadow would have arrived.

The timer had just ticked 5 when I jumped. I was not happy.

Shadow is a troubling character. He is clearly a cutthroat who employs an animal as a weapon, and is stated to be up for bidding to either side of the war. Those people are such human vermin.

Yet, even if you don't piece together his backstory, Shadow is nothing if not quiet and polite. He never says a mean word to anyone except the first time you meet him. Something to the effect of "The dog eats strangers." It can, at any rate, be taken as a thing that a responsible attack dog owner would say.

Shadow may be a turncoat, a traitor, but he is honest and nice about it. He isn't a braggart. He isn't given to fits of temper. He isn't mean or abusive towards his enemies. He isn't a mocker. He isn't anything but one thing; too quiet and never around.

Is Shadow shy just because of his past, or is this some character trait that he has always possessed. Could he have been a shy kid? Maybe that's why he wears a mask.

At any rate, your control of your panic reaction is tested at the halfway point of the game, and if you panic, you will be unable to recruit Shadow in the second half. It is a kind of stark statement for any media or work to make; some people simply vanish sometimes. There is no scene, they leave no trace of themselves, and you never find out where they went.

It's a sad thing, but a heart that hurts is a heart that beats I guess. General opinion seems to regard sadness as some flavor of the moment, the realm of emo punk goth makeup people and doe eyed piano pop princesses.

Sadness is a human state that is necessary to cause a person to rest when they have experienced too much pain to continue their life without damaging their body, or at least, it seems that way to me. Shadow's story is sad, and even if you save him, he really never gets any fair shake in the story at all.

I like Shadow a lot. Why is FF6 so mean to him?

As to the rest of the game, it became clear to me that there was little overarching plot anymore except getting everyone back and killing the shit out of that assclown.

I was ok with that.

10/10 bout to play again.

This post has been edited by Spooniest on 14th January 2017 02:44

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Posted: 27th April 2017 22:16

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Shadow is a complicated character and can be rather overpowered especially early game in the world of balance which i why i suspect they kept him only available temporarily until after the big boom.


I always felt Shadow was hiding from his past as he was unable to bring himself to face it.

His being able to use the memento ring was a blink.gif moment as it was clear he had to be Relm's daddy.

I have always wished he revealed his true identity to her.

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FFVI Forever.
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Posted: 25th October 2017 15:12

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At one point I partially blamed Shadow for the destruction of the WoB with his moving of the statues. In time that passed, because if he hadn’t then the party you use on the Floating Continent would’ve been toast. That would’ve made for an interesting WoR - being able to choose which 3 (or 4) characters plus Shadow would’ve been unusable - but it’s better the way it is.
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Posted: 4th December 2017 07:26

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He is overshadowed (pun intended) by the other characters. You like him if you're a ninja person and like to throw items. While as a character he's pretty interesting to me I felt his special ability to throw isn't as good as other abilities. I left him off many missions.

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Posted: 4th December 2017 17:20

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Shadow's theme more than makes up for it though.

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Posted: 5th December 2017 13:20

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...I am afraid to re read the thread. I must have been drunk when I wrote the OP.

So here is a modern take on this now-years old point I made.

Final Fantasy VI contains basically the most advanced form of a FF game (if FF can be agreed to be 'games similar in look, function, and design to FF1) that has ever been coded. Final Fantasy VII, under the hood, is actually a completely different type of software and way of making a game play on a TV than anything that came before it. Indeed, its status as a Fan Favorite and top selling numbers indicate that it is the series' big selling point.

Final Fantasy VI's numbers were weak in comparison, likely due to the limited marketing of the actual game (a commercial featuring a CGI Mog toasting CGI monsters applying to be in the game was made and aired, but no gameplay footage was used, to my recollection. Print ads were similarly drawn artwork only). With FFVII, the big commercial had a blond spiky haired guy with some wicked bracelets riding a motorcycle through a window and hanging with some good looking women. Those two campaigns are markedly different in their strategy and target marketing demographic. One didnt work; the other worked.

FFVII, though, even had complaints of it being too linear in the Electronic Gaming Monthly reviews. No such complaints were made about VI to my immediate recollection, which was also game of the month, by the way. It received the highest review scores of anything which was reviewed in that issue, and it was gushed about quite a bit.

Its graphics are somewhat ...cuter than FF7's, but they are a bit more expressive. Moustaches and smiling mouths were possible on the character sprites in FF6, but such fine details were a little beyond the PSX hardware's ability to render. You can see in the PC version that mouths were designed, but the fact that so many of them (Sephiroth) are always open suggests this was intended to be an animated sprite on the texture map, which was never implemented.

But FF6, by virtue of its simpler graphics, could do more with less. ...And it doesn't have any awkward relationship system either, which is a feature I've always preferred the ahem, real-life version of. Pursuing simulated relationships is a bit... Coy for me. I'm afraid I've never been much for the prospect...how can you be in love with someone who isn't real? That has always been my attitude...Im not exactly whimsical about it.

FF6 also flows better. By the time you've played for even 20 minutes, youre more or less out of Narshe and onto the world map heading for Figaro. You don't have to go there (Figaro Cave is guarded and off limits but you can try to enter, and the chocobo forest is open to you), but linearity is the mother of plot advancement.

What is nice about 6 over 7 though, is that it never makes you feel like you absolutely have to move on, because there's nothing to do. Places like Kalm, Chocobo Farm, Mythril Mines, Costa Del Sol, Corel, Gongaga, etc., feel tacked on, for me. They are merely locations between major plot points which are there to pad out the game. FF6's locations somehow feel necessary for the story to be there. Figaro is a technological castle in a desert south of a coal mining city up in the mountains (environmental impossibility aside), and a point is made later that Narshe uses Figaro's machinery at times. Also, Figaro is such a large country that it has a Southern Region, South Figaro. Sabin, the brother of Figaro's King Edgar, has a house north of the Region in a valley. The mountain range to the northeast ("Mt. kolts") leads to a cave hideout for the resistance with a river ride possible to get back to Narshe.

Do you see how each location has some sort of relevance to the story and the overall world? FF7 isn't quite the same way, nor do its inhabitants seem to communicate with each other the way FF6's do (by carrier pigeon of course).

All in all, I feel 6 is the series peak in terms of its sophistication. A lot of things got dumbed down for 7. I'm not saying it makes 7 a bad game or a worse game than 6, or that 6 is better (although it is my favorite), but I am saying that 6 has tighter design. Its really neat the way it all works too, you should find the Algorithms FAQ and look at how it calculates damage. Or maybe only nerds like me would think that was cool. Hm.

FF6 moves faster getting into and out of battle, too. FF7's randos can drag a bit.

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Posted: 8th December 2017 09:28

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I will nitpick. And you can nitpic my nitpick in case I got it wrong.

You were talking about FFVI initially. How many times have threads turned into a VI vs. VII debate? Lets not debate it anymore.

Both games and in fact almost all games have their flaws. FFVII is a multidollar masterpiece and they still didn't get it perfect. Similar to VI.

You are insinuating some sort of ideal game. But with all the time it takes, the criteria, and the people who might play the conclusion is - it's outside of the scope of this forum.

I haven't been here in years because I'm satisfied with what I did. And not sad about something that should have been.

You must judge how long you want to dwell on it if you think it gets you somewhere.

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Posted: 8th December 2017 13:38

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So that’s a vote for discontinuing the conversation entirely, coupled with an assertion that my viewpoint is 100% invalid

I bet you’re fun at parties.

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Posted: 8th December 2017 15:10

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First thing I want to throw out in a response here is that I think that time makes the perception of a comparison between Final Fantasy VI and VII really difficult. After all this time, people who played both when they were new might not remember all the impressions each game made independent of the other, and people who played them later or replayed them side-by-side might also have different impressions of the two now than they did originally. And, with so many other games in the series released after, it can even be hard to consider just how widely-spaced the games were in terms of time and platform back in the 90s, IMO. But, anyway!

Quote (Spooniest)
So here is a modern take on this now-years old point I made.
Almost one year. wink.gif

Quote (Spooniest)
Final Fantasy VI contains basically the most advanced form of a FF game (if FF can be agreed to be 'games similar in look, function, and design to FF1) that has ever been coded.
Well, that seems to be a pretty arbitrary distinction, though. I feel like that definition could be manipulated to mean whatever you want it to mean. But by that particular definition, probably? I mean, say, Final Fantasy Dimensions is newer, has more advanced graphics, and uses an ATB system, too. Maybe it's the most advanced? I dunno.

Quote (Spooniest)
Final Fantasy VI's numbers were weak in comparison, likely due to the limited marketing of the actual game (a commercial featuring a CGI Mog toasting CGI monsters applying to be in the game was made and aired, but no gameplay footage was used, to my recollection. Print ads were similarly drawn artwork only). With FFVII, the big commercial had a blond spiky haired guy with some wicked bracelets riding a motorcycle through a window and hanging with some good looking women. Those two campaigns are markedly different in their strategy and target marketing demographic. One didnt work; the other worked.
Now, my response here is likely either accurate due to my rapidly-aging University knowledge, or biased by it and I can't tell. But, I don't think this is really all that fair of an assessment. A lot changed in gaming between 1994 and 1997, and not specifically to Final Fantasy games. Final Fantasy VII was able to benefit from those changes in ways that Final Fantasy III was not, and while I don't have direct knowledge of the subject, I would guess that the main change was that Sony actually paid for a ton of the marketing itself in the United States, seeing Final Fantasy VII as a way to move systems for its still-pretty-new console experiment. I'm not really arguing your central premise here, just saying that maybe it's not a result of the way things were marketed so much as the idea that the industry itself changed and changes in marketing were more of a trickle-down effect than a broad-based change in marketing ideas themselves.

Quote (Spooniest)
But FF6, by virtue of its simpler graphics, could do more with less. ...And it doesn't have any awkward relationship system either, which is a feature I've always preferred the ahem, real-life version of. Pursuing simulated relationships is a bit... Coy for me. I'm afraid I've never been much for the prospect...how can you be in love with someone who isn't real? That has always been my attitude...Im not exactly whimsical about it.
To each his own, but I feel like that might be a bit of a reach. You seem to be painting Final Fantasy VII as if it were a dating sim or a waifu visual novel sort of game with this statement; I met my wife around the time Final Fantasy VII came out, and I don't recall having any issues confusing the in-game relationships with the one I had without a controller in my hand. I mean, I think I still get your premise, again, but I don't think VII is the most egregious example of it even if I were to buy in fully, and I don't think that romantic relationships were ever used as one of the selling points of the game, just as an easter egg as people started to dig into it more.

Quote (Spooniest)
FF6 also flows better. By the time you've played for even 20 minutes, youre more or less out of Narshe and onto the world map heading for Figaro. You don't have to go there (Figaro Cave is guarded and off limits but you can try to enter, and the chocobo forest is open to you), but linearity is the mother of plot advancement.
Lest you think I'm posting just to argue with you, I agree with this idea. I remember Midgar starting to be a grind before leaving it for the first time, but at the same time, I also feel like maybe that was intentional. That narrative theme of oppressive mechanization versus the natural and supernatural world is an intentional part of Final Fantasy VII, so I think the player's relief of not being stuck in dark Midgar any more is at least partially intentional as well.

Quote (Spooniest)
What is nice about 6 over 7 though, is that it never makes you feel like you absolutely have to move on, because there's nothing to do. Places like Kalm, Chocobo Farm, Mythril Mines, Costa Del Sol, Corel, Gongaga, etc., feel tacked on, for me. They are merely locations between major plot points which are there to pad out the game. FF6's locations somehow feel necessary for the story to be there. Figaro is a technological castle in a desert south of a coal mining city up in the mountains (environmental impossibility aside), and a point is made later that Narshe uses Figaro's machinery at times. Also, Figaro is such a large country that it has a Southern Region, South Figaro. Sabin, the brother of Figaro's King Edgar, has a house north of the Region in a valley. The mountain range to the northeast ("Mt. kolts") leads to a cave hideout for the resistance with a river ride possible to get back to Narshe.
This one I think you can pretty easily look at it from either side. I get what you're saying, but I'm not sure it was as much an intentional game design decision as it was a simple matter of not being able to work around every limitation of the hardware. Not sure there's any research out there to really point at one direction or another, so the answer is probably "some of both." smile.gif I'm not going to say that the non-necessary parts of FF7's world are all fantastic, but I think there's value to having them as something that isn't necessarily part of the core story. I mean, as a design decision, I'd rather have a town that you can explore but might not really be relevant versus padding a game with collectible finding, heh.

Quote (Spooniest)
All in all, I feel 6 is the series peak in terms of its sophistication. A lot of things got dumbed down for 7. I'm not saying it makes 7 a bad game or a worse game than 6, or that 6 is better (although it is my favorite),  but I am saying that 6 has tighter design. Its really neat the way it all works too, you should find the Algorithms FAQ and look at how it calculates damage. Or maybe only nerds like me would think that was cool. Hm.
Dumbed down, though? Can you give some examples of some things that you consider dumber? I'm not sure what you mean. And I suppose I'm not nerdy enough, but I've never really gone in detail on any of the algorithms, mainly just following the ones that Djibriel wanted to talk about. Are there examples that you can point to between the way each game handles a particular common feature that explains this?

You're definitely more sober now, and I get why you make this case, and if there were in fact a single greatest game in the series FF6 would be a strong candidate. I think I just can't be sold on the premise that any single game is the best in every way over all the others.

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You were talking about FFVI initially. How many times have threads turned into a VI vs. VII debate? Lets not debate it anymore.
He was doing it because anecdotally he felt that VI and VII were the two games most often talked about being the best in the series. Which is probably why you've seen it before. Look, I've seen the topics you've started, and let me tell you, this one is just as valid as any of the stuff you're throwing out there, man.

Quote (Eagle Caller)
You are insinuating some sort of ideal game. But with all the time it takes, the criteria, and the people who might play the conclusion is - it's outside of the scope of this forum.
I agree with kind of what you're trying to say here, as I mention above. There's really no such thing as a perfect game, an ideal game, the best game ever, whether it's in a franchise, on a platform, or involving the whole of gaming history. Same can be said for books, plays, photographs, music - everything is objective. But your attitude towards someone throwing some thoughts out there on the topic is just condescending. What is the scope of this forum, then, if not for discussion of things that don't have a hard-and-fast answer?

Quote
I haven't been here in years because I'm satisfied with what I did. And not sad about something that should have been. You must judge how long you want to dwell on it if you think it gets you somewhere.
Most of your posts come off as some sort of pseudo-intellectual, forced ennui of "this has all been done, don't you have anything that can interest me?" prattle; nobody's making you hang around if you don't like what's being said.



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Posted: 8th December 2017 18:06

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Honestly I don't think FFVI is a perfect game either. There are the well-known bugs (MBlock covering Block for example), and then there are arguably other flaws such as the very final boss being a little underwhelming stats-wise and there are some things that are a bit pointlessly rote (notably finding DoomGaze) and not every scenario is something that's equally memorable (how many people fondly remember Owzer's mansion?).

But it's still certainly a darn good one.

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Posted: 8th December 2017 20:37

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>>
So here is a modern take on this now-years old point I made.
Almost one year.
>>

It's only been a year? eh.gif Dang I thought it was longer ago. Time flies when you're having...miserable catastrophic life changes, I guess? eh.gif Sorry

<<
First thing I want to throw out in a response here is that I think that time makes the perception of a comparison between Final Fantasy VI and VII really difficult. After all this time, people who played both when they were new might not remember all the impressions each game made independent of the other, and people who played them later or replayed them side-by-side might also have different impressions of the two now than they did originally. And, with so many other games in the series released after, it can even be hard to consider just how widely-spaced the games were in terms of time and platform back in the 90s, IMO. But, anyway!
<<

I would also posit that perhaps there is far far too much of binary comparisons going on in my most recent reply, and binary comparisons, while great for getting a simple, pointed message across, really aren't as vivid a reality as the actual thing would suggest, so to speak. They can muddy things quite a bit, in fact (binary as in FFVI vs. VII). Indeed, there are twenty thousand things FFVII does better than VI (stat growth), or bigger than VI (script length just for example), or just plain more interesting than VI (all players and monsters animate all the time). But there are many things which I feel were more solid in VI, and it just seems to have a cleaner feel to the gameplay overall, without a lot of getting bogged down in long story scenes, etc. The interesting thing is, knowing now what I know about the philosophy behind the games' design (each team starts totally from scratch story and gameplay wise), it's a little more than "Oh they just did this because it was in VI, and they wanted to improve it" type thinking...there's sort of a granularity to comparing the two that I find satisfying. I'm really not out to get people's goat as much as the previous post would make you think.

>>
Well, that seems to be a pretty arbitrary distinction, though. I feel like that definition could be manipulated to mean whatever you want it to mean. But by that particular definition, probably? I mean, say, Final Fantasy Dimensions is newer, has more advanced graphics, and uses an ATB system, too. Maybe it's the most advanced? I dunno.
>>

Proportionality to the technological capabilities of the hardware at the time can be considered too. I remember reading about how, at that time, console development had to be very economical and tight, compared with arcade development. The memory capacity of arcade boards was literally as much as you were willing to spend to stick on the individual board. Cartridges had to be a lot more standardized. It's akin to the idea that each arcade board is basically like a console. CPS-1, Neo Geo, Naomi, etc.

FFVI I feel makes the best use of the resources at hand for its development, whereas I feel the expanded memory (of CDs) and bigger budget kind of led to a sort of laziness in spots. It's dev window was longer too, and I think that stories, games, movies, books, etc. are always better, when they're done with some urgency. The quicker you can make it all come together, the less time there is to nitpick and second guess things. But again, all things are a matter of opinion, when we're not talking about a 'which one's better' argument, which I fully admit is kind of an oversimplification.

<<
Now, my response here is likely either accurate due to my rapidly-aging University knowledge, or biased by it and I can't tell. But, I don't think this is really all that fair of an assessment. A lot changed in gaming between 1994 and 1997, and not specifically to Final Fantasy games. Final Fantasy VII was able to benefit from those changes in ways that Final Fantasy III was not, and while I don't have direct knowledge of the subject, I would guess that the main change was that Sony actually paid for a ton of the marketing itself in the United States, seeing Final Fantasy VII as a way to move systems for its still-pretty-new console experiment. I'm not really arguing your central premise here, just saying that maybe it's not a result of the way things were marketed so much as the idea that the industry itself changed and changes in marketing were more of a trickle-down effect than a broad-based change in marketing ideas themselves.
<<

I would return that really all I meant was that one marketing approach was much better than the other. The FF6 commercials tell you next to nothing about what kind of game it is. I don't know why they would bother advertising on TV which is very expensive, without showing the product. FF7 on the other hand is how you do mass marketing. I saw that commercial, too, in its run, and it did make me want to play FF7. Which I ended up doing, to wit. biggrin.gif

>>
Dumbed down, though? Can you give some examples of some things that you consider dumber?
>>

Final Fantasy VII never lets you drop Cloud from the party, is the first thing I want to talk about. Cloud's ever-presence in the party is a symptom, though, of a larger problem I have with him as a character. He kind of steals the show from several other characters, in a series whose strongest character-driven narratives thus far were a bit more balanced about it. Cecil is central to FF4, but other characters' struggles and woes are examined with some detail as well, by comparison. FF6 actually is rather miraculous in making 12 characters all seem interesting in some way or another, and especially in the ways they relate to each other, which almost could have been more worked on.

FF7, though, feels like sort of The Cloud Show. With the exception of perhaps Barrett and Cid whose backstories are somewhat plot related, the other characters have sort of ...less focus given to them. Yuffie rarely has a relevant opinion about what's going on, Cait Sith is by nature someone whose true identity is hidden from the player, Red XIII has two major scenes, both in Cosmo Canyon, and is not further developed, Vincent is sort of similar, and Tifa and Aeris are, and yes I'm going to go out on a limb here, mostly in the game to characterize Cloud.

The characters do not feel as ...real. I don't know. There's something very 'form over function' to them.

The Limit Break and Materia Systems also don't quite have the personal appeal that Magicite or Natural Magic Learning (FF6 and FF4 respectively) had for me. And anyone can say with some degree of confidence that FF6 has a stronger translation into English, but I shy away from counting this as a point in its favor, since it leaves out the Japanese fans who wouldn't have been concerned about it. I wonder which one comes off as better written in Japanese?

I also felt like having only one kind of armor was a little...hm, paltry for an RPG.

Once again, there are many ways to compare two games than just to say 'this one is the better one.' I wish there was deeper thinking going on about this stuff, so I guess that's why I do so much of it. smile.gif

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Posted: 9th December 2017 16:37

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Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 8th December 2017 14:06)
Honestly I don't think FFVI is a perfect game either.  There are the well-known bugs (MBlock covering Block for example), and then there are arguably other flaws such as the very final boss being a little underwhelming stats-wise and there are some things that are a bit pointlessly rote (notably finding DoomGaze) and not every scenario is something that's equally memorable (how many people fondly remember Owzer's mansion?).

But it's still certainly a darn good one.


Well, I would say that the word perfect for video games (or anything else, really) would be useless if it meant flawless. There is no flawless anything! But when I think about perfection in video games, or for RPGs, I think about what they are trying to do or accomplish: conveying a story interactively in an engaging and though-provoking way, and beautifully incorporate all the design elements (music, gameplay/stats, etc.) to facilitate the telling of the story, and so on.

I would say that FFVI is a perfect RPG. Perhaps the better word is quintessential, in that it's one of the best examples of RPGs there is.

Quote (Spooniest)
Final Fantasy VII never lets you drop Cloud from the party, is the first thing I want to talk about. Cloud's ever-presence in the party is a symptom, though, of a larger problem I have with him as a character. He kind of steals the show from several other characters, in a series whose strongest character-driven narratives thus far were a bit more balanced about it. Cecil is central to FF4, but other characters' struggles and woes are examined with some detail as well, by comparison. FF6 actually is rather miraculous in making 12 characters all seem interesting in some way or another, and especially in the ways they relate to each other, which almost could have been more worked on.

FF7, though, feels like sort of The Cloud Show. With the exception of perhaps Barrett and Cid whose backstories are somewhat plot related, the other characters have sort of ...less focus given to them. Yuffie rarely has a relevant opinion about what's going on, Cait Sith is by nature someone whose true identity is hidden from the player, Red XIII has two major scenes, both in Cosmo Canyon, and is not further developed, Vincent is sort of similar, and Tifa and Aeris are, and yes I'm going to go out on a limb here, mostly in the game to characterize Cloud.


I don't think that's a dumb design choice; it's simply a different type of design. It's one that the first half of FFVI also follows. Terra, Locke, and Celes dominate the screen during the first half. That only changes when the game becomes nonlinear in the second half, and in one or two moments when the main characters are out of commission in some way.

With all that said, Tifa, Aeris, and Barret get a lot of screen time. But yes, it's the Cloud Show... because Cloud is the main character. But the first half of FFVI is the Terra Show; it's just that it shifts to the Celes/Locke Show, and then becomes nonlinear.

Quote (Spooniest)
I would also posit that perhaps there is far far too much of binary comparisons going on in my most recent reply, and binary comparisons, while great for getting a simple, pointed message across, really aren't as vivid a reality as the actual thing would suggest, so to speak. They can muddy things quite a bit, in fact (binary as in FFVI vs. VII). Indeed, there are twenty thousand things FFVII does better than VI (stat growth), or bigger than VI (script length just for example), or just plain more interesting than VI (all players and monsters animate all the time). But there are many things which I feel were more solid in VI, and it just seems to have a cleaner feel to the gameplay overall, without a lot of getting bogged down in long story scenes, etc. The interesting thing is, knowing now what I know about the philosophy behind the games' design (each team starts totally from scratch story and gameplay wise), it's a little more than "Oh they just did this because it was in VI, and they wanted to improve it" type thinking...there's sort of a granularity to comparing the two that I find satisfying. I'm really not out to get people's goat as much as the previous post would make you think.


Neither game started from scratch. They are numbered "VI" and "VII" because there were several games that came before them. Because they are next to each other in the series line, the stylistic changes, the jump to 3D, the jump to PlayStation, and many other reasons, both games are naturally going to be compared to each other and debated. It would only be a false binary if we were choosing one and throwing the other away. We are not. These are two of the best in the series, and two of the greatest RPGs ever.

With that being said, I think that each of the elements you said VII does better are debatable. Script length, for instance, doesn't matter if the longer script is a pile of garbage (which VII's is most certainly not). I think it could be argued that FFVI is more technically polished, but that is because the designers were using a platform tested by two other games in the series (IV and V).

I just want to say, I'm not disagreeing with you at least in spirt, because I think I know what you're trying to get at. I just want to clarify.

Edit
It's good to be back on the forum! Been way too long! flag-red.gif flag-blue.gif flag-olly.gif


This post has been edited by BlitzSage on 9th December 2017 16:41

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