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Square enix doesn't care about the fanbase

Posted: 20th April 2014 13:57

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I have come to believe that square enix doesn't care about us.It only cares about what sells to the mainstream.There are many games that could have been improved or used a remake.

FF6
FF6 was promised a remake, and all i heard about is a android portable version that would do it no honor.

Kefka in dissidia 1 was made to be a complete joke to sell that joker prophecy, when in ff6, he was funny, but he also made a lot of death threats.He was made to look like a complete joke and pathetic next to non god creatures.

In kingdom hearts series, setzer was made to be a jerk when he wasn't that way in the game.He did flirt with celes and flipped a coin, but he wasn't an arrogant prick towards people.

Kefka was walked over by everyone and bows down to everyone and pathetic, when he was only weak when he was human, and he had more dignity than that because he hid behind people and used them.He was still more threatening.
FF9
Dissidia 2:Made kuja into a hopeless romantic philosopher? He was evil in ff9 and he seemed somehow less evil.I like the voice actor, but i want to feel more threatened by him.
I haven't seen anymore sequels to the series or adventures, and i like some of the characters.

FF7:

It got promised a remake and it wasn't made.Fans are still angry about it.

FF8:

Squall was made to be emo in dissidia and a complete jerk, when he wasn't as much so in the game.He was not purposefully an asshole at least.If you play the game, you would see that he doesn't trust people.

Only thing ff series, is its broken business ethics of what they think will make money, but is overall hurting them:Sell more mainstream game which sells well to kids, and make more profit.They don't care about us the fans of the games.

This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 25th April 2014 14:18

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Posted: 20th April 2014 16:24

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Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 20th April 2014 13:57)
FF7:

It got promised a remake and it wasn't made.Fans are still angry about it.

A remake has never been promised.

Square Enix have annoyed me recently though. Particularly with the lazy PC ports of FF7 and FF8, their apparent reluctance to patch things that are broken and their over emphasis on cashing in on easy money.
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Posted: 20th April 2014 18:44

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It's just that a video showing ff7 in high def ps3 graphics were shown, exciting ff7 fans.Heck:A certain game in the series has been promised and they were working on it for around 6 years now or more.

FFX is a lot newer than the games which truly deserve a remake, and FFX has better graphics, and yet:No FF6 remake.

Maybe its for the best, since i sincerely doubt they can make it without messing it up and further angering the fanbase.

This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 20th April 2014 18:47

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Posted: 20th April 2014 19:20

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Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 20th April 2014 14:44)
and FFX has better graphics

Than what? FF6? I think that's debatable. Newer doesn't mean better. You're comparing apples and oranges.

Quote
Maybe its for the best, since i sincerely doubt they can make it without messing it up and further angering the fanbase.


Wouldn't that mean they do care about their fanbase, because they're not subjecting their fans to unnecessary remakes?

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Posted: 20th April 2014 20:33

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Quote (BlitzSage @ 20th April 2014 19:20)
Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 20th April 2014 14:44)
and FFX has better graphics

Than what? FF6? I think that's debatable. Newer doesn't mean better. You're comparing apples and oranges.

Quote
Maybe its for the best, since i sincerely doubt they can make it without messing it up and further angering the fanbase.


Wouldn't that mean they do care about their fanbase, because they're not subjecting their fans to unnecessary remakes?

FF6 has good graphics for its time, but what i mean is:That FFX looks good still in 2014.Its not like FFX original game looked that bad for its time.FF7 on the other hand is in the polygon era, and it was before square knew how to use the 3d graphics to its best.

FF6 i just wanted to see a remake that did it justice.

Maybe, or it could be that they don't see it as a huge cash cow.

FF7/FFX has a larger fanbase, therefor making more money.Larger fanbase doesn't mean better.I'm not going to argue which is better as it is a pointless argument.

At this point games like FFXIII attract some fanbase for casuals because its linear has a lot of flashy cutscenes, more so than ff7 and FFX and has kids as protagonist, and girls showing lots of skin.

This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 20th April 2014 20:41

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Posted: 21st April 2014 13:00

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Related to the thread title, but not the OP content:

A friend just showed me this link and I thought the thread would be about this: http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/04/18/square-e...seeable-future/

This post has been edited by Glenn Magus Harvey on 21st April 2014 13:01

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Posted: 23rd April 2014 13:30

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Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 20th April 2014 16:33)
At this point games like FFXIII attract some fanbase for casuals because its linear has a lot of flashy cutscenes, more so than ff7 and FFX and has kids as protagonist, and girls showing lots of skin.

This is where you completely lose me. What you're saying in this thread is that Square Enix have angered you. You don't speak for the entire fanbase, which is why so many people are debating you in this thread. Maybe I am a casual gamer. I probably am. I love Final Fantasy XIII, but don't try to tell me why I like it, you know?

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Posted: 24th April 2014 16:55

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Quote (Rangers51 @ 23rd April 2014 13:30)
Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 20th April 2014 16:33)
At this point games like FFXIII attract some fanbase for casuals because its linear has a lot of flashy cutscenes, more so than ff7 and FFX and has kids as protagonist, and girls showing lots of skin.

This is where you completely lose me. What you're saying in this thread is that Square Enix have angered you. You don't speak for the entire fanbase, which is why so many people are debating you in this thread. Maybe I am a casual gamer. I probably am. I love Final Fantasy XIII, but don't try to tell me why I like it, you know?

FFXIII is different in some ways, but it is far simplified over other games in the series.The villain's plot was stupid, the characters were stupid, because barthandalus wanted to be destroyed to destroy the world, and the heroes killed him.He constantly warned that his death would do huge amounts of damage.

The characters were stupid and stupid dialect, with very mainstream sort of heroes we have seen a million times.The music wasn't even as good as the other games.

I think square enix was when the company truly went downhill.That isn't saying it isn't possible to have good games, i just distrust square enix when it comes to final fantasy series.The real issue is that the formula hasn't changed all that much.In american rpgs, you can be the villain and there are far more grey lines than in any of the final fantasy games.You already know you are the hero, and you can be pretty sure who the villain is pretty soon.Even the gameplay style isn't that good in turn base, because the turnbased combat uses the same strategies since ff1, and the skillset is exactly the same without much variation or any at all.Attack-heal-Buff buff etc.

At least in a strategy game, there is a lot more skills to use, and a ton more variation to think about than the ff basic rpgs.In turn base, strategy is a lot harder and there is more to do than just mash attack=WIN!! I'm not saying all games do that in the ff series, its just that there is a lot left to be desired in FFXIII's combat system.

Even the sphere system is lousy.There is no variation in it.IT is a straight line from 1 point to the next.There is no random stat boost or skill learned, and the game automatically uses it for you.

FFXIII-2 Uses quick time events and i'm not fan, and i don't trust square enix anymore.FFX was an ok game, but FFXIII is a disgrace.You can like it if you want, but do you deny these problems? The silly plot with fillers like the training ground made for mindless grinding filler?

I may have bashed ff7 in the past, but i think its a million times better than FFXIII, and probably a few hundred times better than FFX, just because FFX plot plods along so slowly, and it doesn't really become that open till you can roam around the world on your airship.Even then:I think FFX is a good game for what i was.

FFXIII Doesn't even have much questing.Too much filler dialogue and cutscenes, and not enough gameplay.

I don't have an opinion on FFXII since i didn't play it.

This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 24th April 2014 16:58

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Posted: 24th April 2014 17:26

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Quote
In american rpgs, you can be the villain and there are far more grey lines than in any of the final fantasy games.You already know you are the hero, and you can be pretty sure who the villain is pretty soon.Even the gameplay style isn't that good in turn base, because the turnbased combat uses the same strategies since ff1, and the skillset is exactly the same without much variation or any at all.Attack-heal-Buff buff etc.

At least in a strategy game, there is a lot more skills to use, and a ton more variation to think about than the ff basic rpgs.In turn base, strategy is a lot harder and there is more to do than just mash attack=WIN!! I'm not saying all games do that in the ff series, its just that there is a lot left to be desired in FFXIII's combat system.

Even the sphere system is lousy.There is no variation in it.IT is a straight line from 1 point to the next.There is no random stat boost or skill learned, and the game automatically uses it for you.


It sounds like you're complaining about a stereotypical JRPG, from the perspective of a stereotypical WRPG fan, actually.

Now I haven't played the newer FF games, so I can't say what they're like. Though I've mentioned a few times elsewhere that sometimes I find myself wanting not lots of customization and decisions, but just wanting to be swept away by a memorable, strong narrative.

That said, the stereotypical JRPG -- a game with random battles to shuttle characters between cutscenes -- isn't typically a good deliverer of that narrative. It can be, but it works much better when the narrative makes use of gameplay features directly, such as in Final Fantasy IV, as the recent CoNcast highlights.

If anything, I think one problem with JRPGs is a separation between the character advancement schemes (which can get crazily complex) and the plot. I'd much rather have a game with simple mechanics/advancement but integrates that advancement into the narrative. There need not be different paths -- the point of the RPG, to me, is the journey, not the end result.

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Posted: 24th April 2014 19:09

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Could be worse, it could be FMV.

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Posted: 24th April 2014 21:04

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The issue is:FF6 was 1994 and ff7 1997.It was fresh then and new.There was enough different.

Problem is:FFXIII doesn't do anything particularly strongly.

At least ff7 has some interesting combinations of materia to keep things interesting.Sure its overpowered, but you have a choice.

In FFXIII, you are bereft of choices for the most part.

From choices on paths, to even skill sets are linear.I also think the story is terrible, and the characters worse set in the series.The characters seem to posess little to no qualities whatsoever.

I know its unfair to ask for book quality characters and story narrative, but the older games at least had their charm in their limited way.It seems as newer games come out in the ff series, they become less and less charming, and the storytelling arc more and more dated.

Another problem is:it seems like characters only have one side.People bashed on old games with their limitation, but games even in the ps1 had their limits too.Heck:Squall had more depth than any of the FFXIII characters, and i will fight you on it.

Hope:His theme is that of anger and revenge, and he sticks to it for the most of the game, along with whining.I've seen characters in books whine and in real life, but its the grey areas that leave him bland forgettable and uninteresting.

Vanille:Bland forgettable and boring.She is mostly happy and has the thing with the ragnarok and knowing fang.Its not even interesting even when revealed.There is no character revealed.

Fang:Boring character.Only backstory is that she was crystalized and came back after her first mission with vanille.No other interesting information.

Sasz:Had the potential to be interesting, but blew it.His cowardice and info we get on his son shows there was more development than the other mentioned characters.He almost killed himself and tried to kill vanille when he failed to kill her.I've never seen anyone do that in an ff game, and it was interesting.The rest was boring.

Snow:Boring stereotype invented possibly by square. of a hero who doesn't plan.He even says it:Heroes don't need a plan, we just rush in and save the day.I didn't care about his relationship and i found him rather annoying.

Lightning:I don't like her either, except for the fact that she slaps snow was cool.She seems like the most level headed person in the team.

That's not saying you need a dark past to be deep and interesting, but definition helps and a story behind each character would help.The characters lack depth.

Heck, ff5 lacks depth but its entertaining because of the dialogue.It could at least try to be entertaining.

I also miss flying an airship over towns and landing next to them.We got advanced technology, isn't it possible to do that anymore? or is it impossible?

FFXIII is a big Fmv, heck:FFX is a big FMV too.
Most of FFX is sitting around waiting for something to happen, and FFXIII has things happening without an explanation.You are dropped into the world expected to know whats going on and bombs are going off and people are dying and you are being chased.
You don't know what a le'cie is and the game doesn't explain a lot of stuff.That stuff is deep within an archive of texts to read.

It took plays to figure it out, and when i did, it was boring uninteresting and forgettable.The opposite of what it should be.I have never not cared so much while playing a game.

This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 24th April 2014 21:10

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Posted: 24th April 2014 23:52

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Look, Magi,

Putting aside for a moment your slightly muddled and somewhat circular arguments, I agree with you. FFXIII sucked, and for me is the low point of the series in all but graphics.

BUT - your real problem here is that you started this thread under the premise that Square Enix doesn't care about its fanbase. The reason so many people aren't agreeing with you is because you're assuming that YOUR taste is synonymous with the fanbase as a whole.

Well, I'm sorry buddy, but you're wrong. Your tastes aren't necessarily the only tastes, and you aren't the entire fanbase. By trying to make a false dichotomy, you're losing your argument before you start. This topic isn't black and white, it's shades of grey. Try to realise that, and you might discover that other people have valid points too.

FWIW, I do think the series has lost its way a little bit, and that it's trying to please too many camps. It's evolving, and trying to re-establish its place in an action-oriented, FPS-dominated world. And yeah, maybe it's taken some wrong turns. But before you can assert that this equates to not caring about the fanbase, you need to double-check what the fanbase really is these days.

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Posted: 25th April 2014 14:14

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I think also the fanbase has changed as well.The values are a little different.
Companies are pushing graphics more and more as the end all be all, and people who were born in the era are demanding more.

The reason i said what i said, is that the japanese have a certain style that is recognizable to anyone who has played enough of their games, and if you play enough jrpgs, you will recognize that most games are very similar in plot structure and story even.

The thing is:Something about the new games i just don't really care for them at all.I didn't even really care that much for the world ends with you.Sure its interesting idea, but maybe its because i'm not a teenager and that kind of stuff no longer appeals to me as a grownup.



This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 25th April 2014 14:25

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Posted: 25th April 2014 18:00

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Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 24th April 2014 13:26)
Quote
In american rpgs, you can be the villain and there are far more grey lines than in any of the final fantasy games.You already know you are the hero, and you can be pretty sure who the villain is pretty soon.Even the gameplay style isn't that good in turn base, because the turnbased combat uses the same strategies since ff1, and the skillset is exactly the same without much variation or any at all.Attack-heal-Buff buff etc.

At least in a strategy game, there is a lot more skills to use, and a ton more variation to think about than the ff basic rpgs.In turn base, strategy is a lot harder and there is more to do than just mash attack=WIN!! I'm not saying all games do that in the ff series, its just that there is a lot left to be desired in FFXIII's combat system.

Even the sphere system is lousy.There is no variation in it.IT is a straight line from 1 point to the next.There is no random stat boost or skill learned, and the game automatically uses it for you.


It sounds like you're complaining about a stereotypical JRPG, from the perspective of a stereotypical WRPG fan, actually.

I think there's an argument to be made that if square wanted to do something innovative, interesting, new, and cool, they would learn a lesson from WRPG's. Formulaic churning out of bishi swill is hardly impressing the people who got the series off the ground by being fans of the early games when they came out.

Besides, if Cowboy Bebop has taught us anything, it's that Eastern/Western hybrids can only result in win.

Never played Wild Arms, but this somewhat meets the criteria I get the impression. What I'm talking about here is something more like an FF meets an Elderscroll.

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Posted: 25th April 2014 21:35

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Quote (MogMaster @ 25th April 2014 19:00)
What I'm talking about here is something more like an FF meets an Elderscroll.

I would sell my children to play that game (if I had children, that is).

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Posted: 30th April 2014 17:05

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I wouldn't say they don't care about their fans, perhaps less than other companies but it's a difficult thing to prove.

I think they do often place the more casual gamer as a priority over hard core fans, but they are a business, and their primary concern is making money and as most of the time there are far more casual gamers to be found, most companies consider this approach best as well.

You may find this article interesting:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-03-...re-enix-rethink

Last month the Square Enix president admitted the company had "lost its focus" when trying to make its home console games for a global audience. So you may well see a shift back towards the sort of games that interest you more. Or they may go in a different direction altogether.


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Posted: 1st May 2014 16:30

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There is of course hope for the best, and maybe.I just don't know anymore.Graphics are the big thing, and risk taking costs a lot of money with these fancy high tech graphics, and there is a crash due to the banks going on and people being let go.All this is having negative effects.Most probably SE will try to get back on its feet knowing it can't survive like that.

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Posted: 1st May 2014 18:50

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Quote (fatman @ 30th April 2014 13:05)
I think they do often place the more casual gamer as a priority over hard core fans, but they are a business, and their primary concern is making money and as most of the time there are far more casual gamers to be found, most companies consider this approach best as well.

Every company with the hope of surviving has to hit the target market and make money, for sure, and there do seem to be a few big targets to aim at right now in gaming: Casual gaming, including F2P, indie gaming, and AAA gaming. Square Enix, being who they are, are trying to take all three at once, I think. In fact, I think they're trying to be diverse enough that you simply can't identify a fan base for the company at all any more, which is probably why this discussion is a little disjointed. I think if you wanted to point at the company and say they have a single fanbase, you couldn't really do so after Final Fantasy VII. After that game, you had in quick succession games like Einhander, Parasite Eve, Brave Fencer Musashi, Bushido Blade, Chocobo Racing, et. al. Those games weren't blockbusters, but they illustrate that the company has been actively diversifying their catalog for nearly 20 years. Doing more mobile releases, porting more old games, doing F2P using identifiable brands, and even buying companies like Eidos and Deep Silver - all of those things, to me, are just different kinds of diversification to maximize revenue and long-term sustainability as a company.

I do think that dovetails pretty well with the OP. It seems the shard of the fanbase he's referring to is the type that wants Squenix to only put out games like they did pre-1997. I can almost understand that, in that perspective, but I do think it is a pretty poor way to do business - it's putting all the eggs in one basket, as the saying goes, and I have a hard time believing that the company could keep itself going forever in going back to a diet of virtually all turn-based JRPGs. That's not to say that their current direction is sales magic, but I certainly don't think that turning back the dial 15 years or more is going to work in today's marketplace.

Quote (fatman)
Last month the Square Enix president admitted the company had "lost its focus" when trying to make its home console games for a global audience. So you may well see a shift back towards the sort of games that interest you more. Or they may go in a different direction altogether.
I can see both happening. The "traditional" JRPG might be finding new life on handhelds with Bravely Default - that's just another good way to diversify. Given the lower capabilities of handhelds, too, those and mobile devices seem like the right place to get that market ramped up.

Quote (magitek_slayer)
Sure its interesting idea, but maybe its because i'm not a teenager and that kind of stuff no longer appeals to me as a grownup.
Well, of course, one can be a grownup and enjoy a game, most any game. I'm not sure that being an "adult" on its own would change that; what you said sounds like you one day flipped a switch and started thinking things were childish because, I don't know? They're expected to be childish? I've been a grownup for a long, long time now and I still like my toys. smile.gif

In any event, I'm still not really sure what you are expecting from the company that would change your mind about Squenix abandoning their fanbase. Part of that is surely because they still release games I enjoy on a semi-regular basis - I probably have some bias on my side that is directly opposite to your bias. But, if anything, that only reinforces my point: how can one say the fanbase is being left behind when there are still so many people who enjoy the games that are coming out? And how can you be so sure that going a different direction, whatever direction you've decided that to be, would be better for the company?



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Posted: 2nd May 2014 15:39

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Chocobo Knight
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See, this thread makes me feel like a genius. I actually do have similar sentiments to Magi... but you know what I did? I just quit playing the series. I haven't worried about what Squenix is or isn't doing or even have or haven't done in a long time.

The best part? There are plenty of FF games I don't have a problem with and I just go back and play those when I need my FF fix.

Now I just gotta get Chrono Trigger and Parasite Eve on mah Vita.
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Posted: 3rd May 2014 12:06

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Crusader
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I'm not anti technology, nor do i think its impossible.Its just that the actual ff games and rpg games feel less great, and more of the same.I liked ff9's lack of realism and having fantastical creatures.

Heck, ff dissidia was fun idea.I'm not that keen on some of the other changes.I would love to see another parasite eve that went towards survival horror again, and less shooter.

I haven't been impressed with all the new ff games that came out enough to actually buy it.I saw a video of FFX-2 and i don't want to buy it.I saw a video of FFXII, and i'm debating on if i want to buy it.

I like the idea of survival horror and rpg so much, heck i was even for years thinking of making one game on rpg maker xp of resident evil/ff/silent hill ish feel game.The stories in these new games are just lacking anything interesting.FFX had some ideas, but it could have had a more interesting story.

I have to play more of world ends with you, which i haven't done that much.I also think i prefer real time rpgs in most rpg sense due to the fast pace, because random encounters gets very annoying.ff6 had very fast ending of encounters, as did ff7, and in some form of way to lower encounters.I do also like real time games in terms of managing what everybody does, like:You heal you do attack magic and what not, but controlling exactly what spell they cast, and when, and even be able to cast it.One of the biggest complains i have with modern ff games, is in the past old spells still were very useful.In FFX, you discard fire2 ice2 bolt2 for fire3 ice3 bolt3 and nuke.An idea would be to revamp the spells for something completely different in spells and have a level system to those spells, so they get stronger as you use them and become more useful, and each spell has some benefit to them.I don't like the direction new ff games went with spells.

Every character being the same:In some turn based games, like ff tactics, it works because there are so many classes, and you can't just lol burst your way through every fight.Example:In ff tactics on ps1 combine different spells to win a fight in turnbase on the map.Some enemies are dragoons and jump in the air, and you have to be fast, so black magic level 3 spells are too slow.

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Posted: 4th May 2014 16:18

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Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 3rd May 2014 12:06)
I saw a video of FFXII, and i'm debating on if i want to buy it.



I recommend it, my top three Final Fantasy games are 7, 9 and 12. Twelve had a lot of great stuff going for it, I really hope they make an HD version, I'd snap it up.

Quote (Rangers51 @ 1st May 2014 18:50)

Every company with the hope of surviving has to hit the target market and make money, for sure, and there do seem to be a few big targets to aim at right now in gaming: Casual gaming, including F2P, indie gaming, and AAA gaming. Square Enix, being who they are, are trying to take all three at once, I think. In fact, I think they're trying to be diverse enough that you simply can't identify a fan base for the company at all any more, which is probably why this discussion is a little disjointed. I think if you wanted to point at the company and say they have a single fanbase, you couldn't really do so after Final Fantasy VII. After that game, you had in quick succession games like Einhander, Parasite Eve, Brave Fencer Musashi, Bushido Blade, Chocobo Racing, et. al. Those games weren't blockbusters, but they illustrate that the company has been actively diversifying their catalog for nearly 20 years. Doing more mobile releases, porting more old games, doing F2P using identifiable brands, and even buying companies like Eidos and Deep Silver - all of those things, to me, are just different kinds of diversification to maximize revenue and long-term sustainability as a company.


That's true, they try all sorts of different things, I think they have a harder job than most at keeping fans happy considering people are shouting for so many different things now, it's an impossible task. Even if Final Fantasy 15 is the best game ever, you can guarantee some will be offended as it doesn't contain x, y or z.

This post has been edited by fatman on 4th May 2014 16:30

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Post #206719
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Posted: 4th May 2014 20:31

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwJq8VFEAcM&hd=1

Why? Why did se ruin ff6 on android?
The pics look uglier than the original on snes, and even the music is not synced well.


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Posted: 5th May 2014 19:13

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I can't watch the video at the moment, but it seems that reaction to the new sprites was mixed, rather than mostly negative, despite the initial reaction of the gaming world to the change being negative.

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current games (2024-02-19):
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Posted: 7th May 2014 01:16

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Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 5th May 2014 15:13)
I can't watch the video at the moment, but it seems that reaction to the new sprites was mixed, rather than mostly negative, despite the initial reaction of the gaming world to the change being negative.

I'll revise my position there for this discussion. I don't think the changes were bad, just unnecessary. Unlike Mtekslayer I am not biased towards newer technology, and I don't feel like games have to be updated constantly like Star Wars (which, btw, I also feel is best in the original theatrical version, so is FFVI). I feel that FFVI is probably the second best looking game of the series behind FFIX, which is breathtaking to me. Technology is not a cure-all; in fact, I think that if Square is having problems, it is being caused by difficulty coping with new technology. Of all the advancements that have been created, the most memorable moments, music, etc. seem to be from when technology was at its most limited point.

Building on that point, I'll say that that is one way I may agree with you that they have possibly lost their way. When they first started the creators of FF were on the verge of failure, and they were hungry. Now they're highly successful, but they may be having trouble keeping up with the changing times which is creating blandness due to making safe bets. I'll admit that this is possible, but at most, Square has only been going through this the past few years, because sizable portions of the community supported both FFXII and FFXIII, even if the positive reception wasn't absolute.

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Posted: 11th May 2014 15:44

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http://www.usgamer.net/articles/where-fina...-is-righting-it

Here is an article that is likely to be of interest. Yoshinori Kitase wishes to restore the Final Fantasy series to its former glory. Quite a long read.

This post has been edited by fatman on 11th May 2014 15:45

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Post #206740
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Posted: 12th May 2014 09:43

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Wow, that was a great read.

Now I'm actually kinda interested in playing FFXIII just to see what it's like. With the mindset that it's maybe meant more as a movie than a game. Hm.

Also, FFV's premise of mashing together "fantasy" and "reality" elements sounds really, really interesting. I bet they made a point to include footage of guns as well as footage of a dragon, heh.

Also, the comment about a lot of series with 8-bit roots struggling to figure out the right path today was...something I didn't think about until it mentioned it. I guess similar comments can be said of the Mega Man, Castlevania, Metroid, and Sonic franchises. I was going to say Mario but I think Mario's been mostly saved by being very iconic and also doing all sorts of games outside his original signature specialty of platforming. That said, while I probably wouldn't characterize Mario as significantly gaining ground (in part because it has a lot of market attention already), on the other hand, one ascendant series seems to be the Ys series, come to think of it.

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Posted: 12th May 2014 19:26

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Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 12th May 2014 05:43)
Wow, that was a great read.

Now I'm actually kinda interested in playing FFXIII just to see what it's like. With the mindset that it's maybe meant more as a movie than a game. Hm.

Also, FFV's premise of mashing together "fantasy" and "reality" elements sounds really, really interesting. I bet they made a point to include footage of guns as well as footage of a dragon, heh.

Also, the comment about a lot of series with 8-bit roots struggling to figure out the right path today was...something I didn't think about until it mentioned it. I guess similar comments can be said of the Mega Man, Castlevania, Metroid, and Sonic franchises. I was going to say Mario but I think Mario's been mostly saved by being very iconic and also doing all sorts of games outside his original signature specialty of platforming. That said, while I probably wouldn't characterize Mario as significantly gaining ground (in part because it has a lot of market attention already), on the other hand, one ascendant series seems to be the Ys series, come to think of it.

Well, Mario has also had some considerable success with 3D games, specifically Mario 64 and Galaxy. Metroid Prime was also a great game. It's not necessarily a 3D issue as some have argued. I think that, if there is a major tech issue for FF it has possibly been voice acting combined with localization.

(One thing I'll say, one series I'm a major fan of, DKC, has had a significant revival.)

I need to read the article more closely, but I don't think one or even two games is too far off track. But it depends on perspective. Like you said with Mario, he can have good games, but will he ever have SMB3/SMW best of all time-level games again? Similar to that, will FF ever return to its all-time great glory, or will it be enough to have really good games?

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Posted: 14th May 2014 16:04

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I wouldn't compare Final Fantasy to Mario. Mario doesn't have to worry about story or character interaction, narrative, etc and there's not as much pressure to have state of the art graphics. They also recycle characters a lot and it remains in the same universe. All they really need to focus on is perfecting the game play.

Final Fantasy games require a lot more effort to get right. There's not many assets they tend to reuse.

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Posted: 15th May 2014 02:05

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Quote (fatman @ 14th May 2014 12:04)
I wouldn't compare Final Fantasy to Mario. Mario doesn't have to worry about story or character interaction, narrative, etc and there's not as much pressure to have state of the art graphics. They also recycle characters a lot and it remains in the same universe. All they really need to focus on is perfecting the game play.

Final Fantasy games require a lot more effort to get right. There's not many assets they tend to reuse.

That's true, and that really separates FF from the other big series, Mario, Zelda, Pokémon, and it actually makes it more like a "modern" series. That is something that could make Mtek's theory troubling if true. Unlike Mario, FF is completely dependent on motivated people making new memorable characters, stories, etc. If they don't that, it will be a long drop-off. But we should play a little wait and see with XV, which looks really good. If it returns the series to form, then this argument is moot.

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Posted: 17th May 2014 19:13

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I'm not sure I'd say they don't care about their fanbase. They certainly have a greater tendency to try to milk their fanbase with useless products than they used to (All The Bravest), but they are still making a ton of money and obviously giving people what they want. FFXIII would not have had three installments if people weren't willing to pay for it.

It seems to me that in the past ~20 years both the company and the fanbase have just changed. That's certainly true of the company. Keep in mind when they made all those games we love they weren't even Square Enix, just Square. Many of the people who were central to the creation of the games from that era - Sakaguchi, Uematsu, Amano - are either gone completely or only do marginal work for the series as freelancers. And we now have a younger generation of players who grew up with Final Fantasy and JRPGs being in the mainstream, and not a niche cult genre like it was for us.

Those SNES and PS1 Square games, with certain exceptions (FF8) will always hold a special place in my heart. They came into my life at just the right time, when I was transitioning from adolescent to adult, when I still loved games but was ready for something with a little more substance and maturity. I've accepted that it's no longer the company I grew up with. I can always replay those classics, and maybe they'll release some new games I like, but if not then I'll move on and leave it to people who actually enjoy playing them.
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