CoN 20th Anniversary: 1997-2017
Fun Story

Posted: 9th November 2017 04:49

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Hey all, I know this is my first post in years, and first non sports-related post in well over a decade, probably, but I wanted to pass along this story with people that would appreciate it.

I finally tracked down an SNES Classic two weeks ago. I figured my four-year-old (I have a four-year-old now!) would get a kick out of the Kirby games, and maybe the Mario games, but I thought getting him into the RPGs would be a challenge. He's played through a few Kirby and Yoshi games with my help, dabbled in Mario Maker, and watched me play most of Breath of the Wild, but he's never really seen a real JRPG before.

I was wrong, he loves every minute of it. He's been asking for it for all of his screen time the last week, has renamed all the characters as random objects (Terra is "BEEF" for example, which is funny when she gets frozen), and gets very concerned when a character leaves the party. We just got the Falcon and started picking up characters in the WoR, so he's excited to get everyone "back in our crew".

Mog ("GAME") is unsurprisingly his favorite, and always has to be in the party. He wants an Ultros doll for Christmas. He will tell anyone around about the most recent plot development (whether they asked or not).

Anyways, just thought I'd pass that along. I'll let you know what he thinks of the ending when we get there.

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Posted: 9th November 2017 13:04

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Awesome! I love the name choices. Looks like you have a bunch of games to show him, then! Are you going to show him the other great gems on the SNES Classic right after? Earthbound sounds right up his alley, and Super Mario RPG should also be a great time.
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Posted: 9th November 2017 13:04

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I've avoided exposing my six-year-old to FF6 yet, though I'm not really sure why. I think part of it is that she hasn't really developed an affinity to anything pixel-based yet; as CoN chatters will know, though, she's been big into the 13 series and XV for quite a while. I started the X remaster on my PS4 last night and that seems to have grabbed her attention too.

So, I guess, your story gives me hope. I think another few months and she'll be capable of reading 90% of the text in FF6, so maybe she'll be ready to pick it up on her own. I've been thinking about that quite a bit recently, as the ages where I first saw Dragon Warrior, Final Fantasy, and Final Fantasy II aren't really that far away for her any more.

Stick around and vote on some music, eh? smile.gif

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Posted: 9th November 2017 16:06

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Quote (Gears @ 8th November 2017 23:49)
I was wrong, he loves every minute of it. He's been asking for it for all of his screen time the last week, has renamed all the characters as random objects (Terra is "BEEF" for example, which is funny when she gets frozen), and gets very concerned when a character leaves the party. We just got the Falcon and started picking up characters in the WoR, so he's excited to get everyone "back in our crew".

sad.gif

While this is the most adorable thing I've ever heard, it also makes me sad that i probably won't ever have children.

I don't know why I would want to subject a child to having me as a father, but I will never get to experience what you're experiencing. ...Cherish it. They grow up fast.

Also, welcome back to CoN! They're voting on which music is the baddest mofo low down around this town. smile.gif

This post has been edited by Spooniest on 9th November 2017 16:07

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Posted: 10th November 2017 11:05

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This reminds me of how silly it was that I once nicknamed my starter Bulbasaur "First PKMN!".

I'm not sure how much a four-year-old understands the plot of a JRPG, but whatever. (For the best kid-friendly classic JRPG I'd suggest Super Mario RPG instead.)

But still, this is a cute story.

This post has been edited by Glenn Magus Harvey on 10th November 2017 11:07

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Posted: 10th November 2017 16:54

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Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 10th November 2017 05:05)
I'm not sure how much a four-year-old understands the plot of a JRPG, but whatever. (For the best kid-friendly classic JRPG I'd suggest Super Mario RPG instead.)

In my experience, it's mostly about learning who is a good guy and who is a bad guy, and where the monsters are coming from and what to do about them. At least in my case, it's fielding a lot of questions about those sorts of things; she's not going to get all of the nuance, but in the case of a lot of older JRPGs, how much nuance is their really to get?

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Posted: 10th November 2017 18:45

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He was mad at Kefka when he double-crossed everyone at Thamasa, and he understands that Espers ("Yespers", for some reason) should be treated fairly (and the empire is NOT treating them fairly. I do gloss over some things, like I wasn't able to keep Cid alive, so Celes (HOOP) "fell" off the cliff, and I didn't go into too much detail about what happened at Doma, but I did explain where the Doom Train was going. Mostly I try to challenge him to keep up, I'm sure when he gets older and plays for himself and can actually read what's going on, it'll make more sense.

I think I'll probably do Mario RPG next, just because he's familiar with the characters already (and will probably be super-excited about the Yoshi cameo.) But I'm pretty confident now he'll get into Earthbound, too.

Where do I go to vote on music?

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Posted: 10th November 2017 19:13

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Quote (Gears @ 10th November 2017 12:45)
He was mad at Kefka when he double-crossed everyone at Thamasa, and he understands that Espers ("Yespers", for some reason) should be treated fairly (and the empire is NOT treating them fairly. I do gloss over some things, like I wasn't able to keep Cid alive, so Celes (HOOP) "fell" off the cliff, and I didn't go into too much detail about what happened at Doma, but I did explain where the Doom Train was going. Mostly I try to challenge him to keep up, I'm sure when he gets older and plays for himself and can actually read what's going on, it'll make more sense.

I think I'll probably do Mario RPG next, just because he's familiar with the characters already (and will probably be super-excited about the Yoshi cameo.) But I'm pretty confident now he'll get into Earthbound, too.

Where do I go to vote on music?

Yeah, I think that's the right way to go. The first FF that my daughter really followed was 13-2, and anyone who has played that game knows there's some stuff that happens that definitely needs to be glossed over for that age group (she was three to four around that time too).

Regarding the music, the main site for it is here: https://regalia.cavesofnarshe.com/?matchups=1 but you can also play in the Regalia forum at the bottom of the main forum list. smile.gif

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Posted: 19th November 2017 21:40

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What brought me over here was Josh linking me in, but yeah, my step-daughter and I have started going through some RPGs together. She's 7 and I Felt that was a good age to start, with her grasp of language and concepts. Plenty of questions come, but I mostly turn them back onto her to answer for herself (which she usually intuitively can).

She's been exposed to Secret of Mana and FFXV both through myself and her father when she's at his place. He definitely approves of my exposing her to the music of these games, for that matter.

Still, through the summer vacation, her mom was working in the days, so we had a lot of time together, so I figured we could start up Super Mario RPG, for the reasons Gears and GMH stated: she has affinity and familiarity with most of the cast, and its very digestible in concepts. I read it all aloud in different voices, for my own challenge and her benefit, and she understood pretty much everything. Moments when I needed to grind, I'd do on weekends when she was at her dad's, so she didn't need to sit through those mindless points.
There were parts she 'checked out' when it was tricky for me, or the scenery was too drab, like the Barrel Volcano, for some reason.
Largely, though, she loved it, and when we completed in on Thanksgiving (Canadian) I think it was, she immediately began her own save file. We'll see how she does!

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Posted: 20th November 2017 05:58

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We just finished today, he loved going through the WoR, too (hunting down all the dragons was his favorite part). He liked the denouement, too, although in his classic dramatic fashion he said it "ruined his life" that there's not more FF3 to play. Then I explained to him there were a bunch more Final Fantasy games and he bounced back (he's sad they don't involve the same characters but he's happy he can just give the other characters the same names). We're going to do Earthbound next though, surprisingly he was more excited for that one than Super Mario RPG. He also wants to play the "new Zelda game" he saw on the box.

Seriously, the SNES classic was a pain in the ass to get and about half the games don't really hold up, but it's worth it just for how into the classics he is now.

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Posted: 20th November 2017 07:02

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That's awesome!

There're definitely a few questionable title choices on the SNES Classic, but yeah, it's satisfying to have those controllers and, like yours, my youngin' is into classic graphic fidelity.
That being said, she's not touched the Classic yet since I have most everything else on Wii VC.
At any rate, I look forward to the day she starts tackling FF games solo.

What do you find were the "big questions" that came up throughout the game?

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Posted: 20th November 2017 08:46

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Make sure he's not spoiled about the ending of Earthbound.

I wonder if he'll figure out how to beat the final boss by himself.

That said, Earthbound is loooong. That'll keep him occupied for a while.

This post has been edited by Glenn Magus Harvey on 20th November 2017 08:47

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Posted: 21st December 2017 04:15

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This is fantastic. You've got to get them into pixels early, because these days kids can get jaded and only love games with "better graphics." In terms of understanding the nuances and complexities, I think the joy in it will be returning to the game and rediscovering its extra layers. It's like watching the Godfather. Each time you discover something new.

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Posted: 22nd December 2017 04:48
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I agree with BlitzSage in spirit but I'm gonna nitpick:

I don't think there's a need to get kids into pixels early per se. If they're bright enough (and if they're the children of geeks like us, that's a good bet), they'll appreciate the classics because they're classics. Young and old alike--the bottom line is they like a good story and like games that are fun. They even appreciate deeper messages.

I'm biased and generalizing from my own experience, because when my first daughter was little, I'd show off Mario Galaxy and she'd cheer for all the super duper stars. As she got older, I showed off some Zelda's and had her involved in the strategic thinking. Now she's a fourth grader and she's in love with FF6.

(I hope it's not OT to launch into my own kid-video game stories:)
Speaking of my beloved 9-year-old geek, she just saw
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Terra turn into her Esper form after meeting Tritoch and the little genius is like, "She's human but she's an Esper..." (Mischievous smile) "Maybe one of her parents actually had sex with an Esper! That would be really weird..." I said, with deceptive dismissiveness, "Oh yeah, that would really, really weird..." I threw her off a little but she's not dropping her obviously on-the-money theory and I'm pretty sure when she sees that some Espers other than Terra are humanoid she's gonna say "I told you so."


When we played FF4, from the very first hesitation Golbez had with Cecil at the Tower of Zot she said
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
"He's his father!" I replied that that's a little too much like Star Wars and besides Golbez isn't even that old. Without any hesitation she says, "Then he's his brother! He's totally his brother!"
She picks up emotional cues and foreshadowing so darn easily...

On the flip side, she freaks out at embarrassing scenes, especially when good folk are falsely accused or, worse, actually go bad (Revenge of the Sith is gonna have to wait until mid-teens or something). She understands the greater ramifications of global or tragic moments (she had nightmares when she was taught the story of Noah) so I hesitated big time before bringing in FF6. But if she could handle (Star Wars spoiler, not Last Jedi, which my family won't get to see until next week)
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
the multi-planetary destruction of the main weapon fire in Force Awakens
, I figure she could handle
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Kefka's apocalypse
. I'll let you know when she gets there... I'm guessing she'll watch but only by peeking through fingers.

Anyone else have concerns over the emotional difficulty of some of the FF's (the scene in FF7 comes to mind) with regard to kids in the family?
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Posted: 22nd December 2017 20:26

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Your kid is developing narrative understanding far, far earlier than I did.

I think I basically overlooked all that stuff until I was well into my teens.

Now that I'm an adult, though, I look back and see a silver lining: I'm still able to enjoy stuff without being too genre savvy.

This post has been edited by Glenn Magus Harvey on 22nd December 2017 20:49

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Posted: 23rd December 2017 05:49

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Quote (Locke Unlocked)
I don't think there's a need to get kids into pixels early per se. If they're bright enough (and if they're the children of geeks like us, that's a good bet), they'll appreciate the classics because they're classics. Young and old alike--the bottom line is they like a good story and like games that are fun. They even appreciate deeper messages.

I'm biased and generalizing from my own experience, because when my first daughter was little, I'd show off Mario Galaxy and she'd cheer for all the super duper stars. As she got older, I showed off some Zelda's and had her involved in the strategic thinking. Now she's a fourth grader and she's in love with FF6.


Maybe I'm jaded by my own experience, because I have several younger cousins that hate the early Mario games because of their lesser graphics. But this is probably due to their parents and maybe their friends not instilling a love for the classics. But perhaps they've changed over time.

I guess what I mean is not that parents, or anyone else, has to teach them what is good. It's more that often people can be intelligent (as you say), but it's less about lack of intelligence than it is a lack of social and historical consciousness. I hear all the time how things are "unprecedented," whether it is in video games, movies, sports, politics, etc. Introducing people to history can help contextualize the present. In the case of something like politics, it can help us understand that certain things that appear baffling have happened before, and that means they can be dealt with or prepared for. In the case of art or entertainment, it 1) allows us to defend ourselves from the cheap tricks that have been used time and time again (also applicable to politics), and 2) it gives us a true understanding of what it means for something to be a classic, so we can know what the medium is capable of and what we are striving for (perhaps also applicable to politics).

I say all of that to argue basically that this kind of learning is a social experience, between parent and child, sibling-to-sibling, friend-to-friend, etc. We learn through and with each other to develop a critical eye.

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Posted: 24th December 2017 07:41

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Quote (BlitzSage @ 23rd December 2017 00:49)
Quote (Locke Unlocked)
I don't think there's a need to get kids into pixels early per se. If they're bright enough (and if they're the children of geeks like us, that's a good bet), they'll appreciate the classics because they're classics. Young and old alike--the bottom line is they like a good story and like games that are fun. They even appreciate deeper messages.

I'm biased and generalizing from my own experience, because when my first daughter was little, I'd show off Mario Galaxy and she'd cheer for all the super duper stars. As she got older, I showed off some Zelda's and had her involved in the strategic thinking. Now she's a fourth grader and she's in love with FF6.


Maybe I'm jaded by my own experience, because I have several younger cousins that hate the early Mario games because of their lesser graphics. But this is probably due to their parents and maybe their friends not instilling a love for the classics. But perhaps they've changed over time.

I guess what I mean is not that parents, or anyone else, has to teach them what is good. It's more that often people can be intelligent (as you say), but it's less about lack of intelligence than it is a lack of social and historical consciousness. I hear all the time how things are "unprecedented," whether it is in video games, movies, sports, politics, etc. Introducing people to history can help contextualize the present. In the case of something like politics, it can help us understand that certain things that appear baffling have happened before, and that means they can be dealt with or prepared for. In the case of art or entertainment, it 1) allows us to defend ourselves from the cheap tricks that have been used time and time again (also applicable to politics), and 2) it gives us a true understanding of what it means for something to be a classic, so we can know what the medium is capable of and what we are striving for (perhaps also applicable to politics).

I say all of that to argue basically that this kind of learning is a social experience, between parent and child, sibling-to-sibling, friend-to-friend, etc. We learn through and with each other to develop a critical eye.

There's also a certain component that is a certain requirement that someone actually want to engage with a game.

That was probably a confusing way to word it, but put it this way: We played those games because that's what we had available to play at the time. This isn't to say that they were bad -- there certainly were bad games back then, and most of us did have some choices as to what we could play (and didn't split our playtime equally among them).

But some of these games really require us to "want to play" them. Not just an intellectual open-mindedness, but basically I'm talking about not playing with a feeling akin to "looking over one's shoulder thinking what else one could do with one's time". Like, imagine, you're on a plane ride that lasts like 5 hours, and you forgot to bring a book or your PSV or 3DS or whatever and there's no interesting programming on the in-flight screens but you can't fall asleep either so you literally have nothing to do except that you brought a little GBC or GBA with Super Mario Bros. Deluxe. Then, naturally, you'd get curious enough to try it out, and then it'd be good enough to carry you away on an adventure.

But it's very different from saying, "Hey kids! Let's check out this cool videogame after dinner!" and then you show them Super Mario All-Stars while they probably have Minecraft or Call of Duty on the mind and are expecting something a lot more akin to that.

It might actually be more appealing to them if you, as a parent, older sibling, or other relative, just play a game when they're around and freely let them watch and tell them about it and let them get gradually get excited by themselves. Maybe offer them a controller if you see them hanging around.

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Posted: 25th December 2017 22:19

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Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey)
But it's very different from saying, "Hey kids! Let's check out this cool videogame after dinner!" and then you show them Super Mario All-Stars while they probably have Minecraft or Call of Duty on the mind and are expecting something a lot more akin to that.

It might actually be more appealing to them if you, as a parent, older sibling, or other relative, just play a game when they're around and freely let them watch and tell them about it and let them get gradually get excited by themselves. Maybe offer them a controller if you see them hanging around.


Well, I don't think that video games, or anything, should be forced on a kid or on anyone. I think what you and I said are compatible. It's all about availability and accessibility. That's kind of what I meant by social context; it's putting Super Mario Bros. 3 and Minecraft together, and allowing them to see how both are great games, despite being created in different eras. in different styles, etc. It takes people some time to develop and understand the nuances that come with it. But you're right, it should be done organically. I was that way with music. I grew up in a household with a musician, but it wasn't until I was in my teens that I went back to the music I grew up with because of it, and explored further.

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