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Era of depression?

Posted: 31st August 2009 16:41

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Here is a very strange coincidence

Breath of fire:Sad and depressing anda lot of sad deaths
Final fantasy IV:VERY VERY SAD!! pretty downer till the end really

Coincidence? or was something going on that the designers of games were sad and depressed?



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Posted: 31st August 2009 17:29

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It's called Art, dear boy. It's not an "age of depression" unless the age is defined as from Dawn of Time to End of Time, because like the article says.

True Art is Angsty.

cry.gif

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Posted: 31st August 2009 18:17

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Quote (Del S @ 31st August 2009 17:29)
It's called Art, dear boy. It's not an "age of depression" unless the age is defined as from Dawn of Time to End of Time, because like the article says.

True Art is Angsty.

cry.gif

Not always

There are some game further ahead that are more upbeat

ff6 is slightly more upbeat than ff4 and a little less depressing

Breath of fire 3 is alot less depressing



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Posted: 31st August 2009 19:11

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Despite the fact that 50% of the world's population is killed, dozens of kids are made orphans and the world is completely re-arranged yeah FF6 is pretty upbeat.

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Posted: 31st August 2009 20:27

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ff6 is slightly more upbeat than ff4 and a little less depressing

Yeah... no way. FFVI is definitely more depressing. There are certainly some RPGs that are more upbeat, but all obviously need to contain a certain amount of conflict/evil dudes/innocent people getting splattered.

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Posted: 1st September 2009 08:48

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Quote (Death Penalty @ 31st August 2009 22:27)
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ff6 is slightly more upbeat than ff4 and a little less depressing

Yeah... no way. FFVI is definitely more depressing. There are certainly some RPGs that are more upbeat, but all obviously need to contain a certain amount of conflict/evil dudes/innocent people getting splattered.

What DP said.

Also, FF4 is pretty upbeat itself.
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
There's none of "who can I trust?" delibaration that some people had in FF6. Sure, Kain betrays you a couple of times, but he gets over it. Rydia gets over her mom's death quite quickly. Also, almost nobody dies in FF4, even if they seem to. Cid keeps cracking jokes, Edge goes from battle-wounded to womanizing in 0.3 seconds and most of all the ending is unambiguously happy.


This post has been edited by SilverMaduin on 1st September 2009 08:49

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Posted: 1st September 2009 10:40

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Quote (SilverMaduin @ 1st September 2009 08:48)
Quote (Death Penalty @ 31st August 2009 22:27)
Quote
ff6 is slightly more upbeat than ff4 and a little less depressing

Yeah... no way. FFVI is definitely more depressing. There are certainly some RPGs that are more upbeat, but all obviously need to contain a certain amount of conflict/evil dudes/innocent people getting splattered.

What DP said.

Also, FF4 is pretty upbeat itself.
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
There's none of "who can I trust?" delibaration that some people had in FF6. Sure, Kain betrays you a couple of times, but he gets over it. Rydia gets over her mom's death quite quickly. Also, almost nobody dies in FF4, even if they seem to. Cid keeps cracking jokes, Edge goes from battle-wounded to womanizing in 0.3 seconds and most of all the ending is unambiguously happy.

You are avoiding the comedy in final fantasy 6

Yes there is tragedy like in all final fantasies but ff4 takes the cake.

Possible spoilers: highlight to view
ff4 first tragedy:Entire village of the summoners is destroyed and rydia's mom is killed because the mist dragon dies tragic music played and he loses rydia who he later recovers


Tragedy 2
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
:entire castle is destroyed and tellahs daughter is dead and more sadness


Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Tragedy 3:Tellah dies

Tragedy 4
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
:Edge's father dies and whole castle is wiped out,the edge father being faught and losing control is specifically sad[SPOILER]

This game has more tragedy than upbeatness,it doesn't actually become more upbeat till the moon event

And it ends well

For final fantasy 6:it masks the sadness with alot of humor,there is alot of sadness and the very end is extremely morose.especially since tones of people died and possibly cid and shadow too
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
,except for even then the music seem
s less a downer.
Possible spoilers: highlight to view


During the whole game,the map music is a downer in ff4,the music when someone dies is really sad.


In breath of fire 2:You got more than 1 music piece that is depressing

1:Death music
2:the music in the town ryu was born
[SPOILER]3:The death music for ray where he sacrificed himself


This game has more sadness than even final fantasy 4 i think
Even ff4 starts to become more upbeat at the moon,and it ends well.[SPOILER]


If you don't believe me on breath of fire 2 and final fantasy 4,then play it yourself.

Oh yeah!! the chocobo music is happy type in ff4,although ff4 is a much more serious game than ff6,ff4 is more like ff7 in seriousness cept much more depressing.

This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 2nd September 2009 00:09

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Posted: 1st September 2009 17:07

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Don't worry about spoiler tags mate. You're definetly above them.

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This post has been edited by Rangers51 on 1st September 2009 17:52

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Posted: 1st September 2009 17:53

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Kefka destroyed the world. I don't really see how that is less severe than a few small villages losing most of their citizens.

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Posted: 1st September 2009 23:51

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Quote (Caesar @ 1st September 2009 17:53)
Kefka destroyed the world.  I don't really see how that is less severe than a few small villages losing most of their citizens.

oops sorry,forgot about the spoiler area.

As i said,its sad but the game still is nowhere near as serious as ffIV

FF6 has humor and while its tragic it also has humor to lighten the parts wich are sad.

Even the music in some areas lighten up the game

Like the music in the arena

Possible spoilers: highlight to view
FF4 simply doesn't have much upbeat music,its mostly depressing.
And alot of those scenes follow,wich is why it follows those depressing parts


This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 1st September 2009 23:53

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Posted: 2nd September 2009 01:35

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I think you are alone in this one, just compare the games' intros.

And you are ignoring FFIV funny stuff. Every game has comedy. Porom smacking Palom, the dancers, Yang's wife gave you a PAN to wake him up, looney tunes style.

FFVI has the freaking World of RUIN, there's no way FFIV is more depressing, and the music there, don't tell me it's upbeat.

You give me Tellah, I'll give you Shadow.

Edge's parents? We had flashbacks to Terra's parents deaths, Rachel, the Figaro twin's father and Daryl. We were there for the deaths of Cyan's wife and son, Leo and Cid, the moogles just disappeared.

FFIV has a happy-happy ending, no great damage was done, there was a wedding and a coronation. In FFVI people are trying to rebuild their lives, what was lost is lost, no cheesy revivals. The characters fates are left to our imagination.

I just don't get what you mean about the music, I found all to be of the “adventure” type like in the worldmap or dungeons and “happy” type in the towns, almost none of the “sad” you're saying.

You mentioned BoFII, I'll mention Fire Emblem 4.

Possible spoilers: highlight to view
You think ONE character dying is sad?, you'll need to go to therapy after this game.


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Posted: 2nd September 2009 10:33

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Quote (Sandyboots @ 2nd September 2009 01:35)
I think you are alone in this one, just compare the games' intros.

And you are ignoring FFIV funny stuff. Every game has comedy. Porom smacking Palom, the dancers, Yang's wife gave you a PAN to wake him up, looney tunes style.

FFVI has the freaking World of RUIN, there's no way FFIV is more depressing, and the music there, don't tell me it's upbeat.

You give me Tellah, I'll give you Shadow.

Edge's parents? We had flashbacks to Terra's parents deaths, Rachel, the Figaro twin's father and Daryl. We were there for the deaths of Cyan's wife and son, Leo and Cid, the moogles just disappeared.

FFIV has a happy-happy ending, no great damage was done, there was a wedding and a coronation. In FFVI people are trying to rebuild their lives, what was lost is lost, no cheesy revivals. The characters fates are left to our imagination.

I just don't get what you mean about the music, I found all to be of the “adventure” type like in the worldmap or dungeons and “happy” type in the towns, almost none of the “sad” you're saying.

You mentioned BoFII, I'll mention Fire Emblem 4.

Possible spoilers: highlight to view
You think ONE character dying is sad?, you'll need to go to therapy after this game.

Maybe so but the humor was limited

The game was alot more serious than ff6

World of ruin in fact was very sad and depressing

but ff4 during most of the game was either straight out serious or sad

[/SPOILER]The end didn't lighten up much til you beat the game[SPOILER]

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Posted: 3rd September 2009 03:48

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Well ok you win, FFIV is more depressing, so much that it doesn't matter.

I'll be honest with you, when Tellah died, I laughed. Yeah, I'm an horrible person, but I did so because it had happened so many times before in the game that it was getting ridiculous (not to mention the dialogs were incredibly corny).

When Galuf died, I cried. FFV is perhaps the most funny-happy-light hearted game in the series. When something serious happened, the blow was bigger, unexpected, it hurt more. A black spot is easier to spot on a white sheet isn't?

FFVI comedy moments accentuate the dramatic ones. If you didn't come to love the world presented in the WOB, then you'll feel nothing after the events in the Floating Continent. If Locke wasn't his cheerful self, then we wouldn't notice him getting sad when he visits Rachel. We wouldn't feel as bad for Gau when his father rejects him if it wasn't for the previous “funny” scene. If Sabin hadn't make us laugh eating ghost food then the silence following the departure of Cyan's family wouldn't have been that strong.


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Posted: 3rd September 2009 10:49

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Quote (Sandyboots @ 3rd September 2009 03:48)
Well ok you win, FFIV is more depressing, so much that it doesn't matter.

I'll be honest with you, when Tellah died, I laughed. Yeah, I'm an horrible person, but I did so because it had happened so many times before in the game that it was getting ridiculous (not to mention the dialogs were incredibly corny).

When Galuf died, I cried. FFV is perhaps the most funny-happy-light hearted game in the series. When something serious happened, the blow was bigger, unexpected, it hurt more. A black spot is easier to spot on a white sheet isn't?

FFVI comedy moments accentuate the dramatic ones. If you didn't come to love the world presented in the WOB, then you'll feel nothing after the events in the Floating Continent. If Locke wasn't his cheerful self, then we wouldn't notice him getting sad when he visits Rachel. We wouldn't feel as bad for Gau when his father rejects him if it wasn't for the previous “funny” scene. If Sabin hadn't make us laugh eating ghost food then the silence following the departure of Cyan's family wouldn't have been that strong.

Well,i sopose all does add up

What especially was sad was poor ol cyan

Although i must say that gau's story was also pretty sad as was the thing with rachel.



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Posted: 4th September 2009 02:41

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There were a number of times I cried in the FF series...most of witch was in ff6. FF4 is and always will be my number 1 though.

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Posted: 5th September 2009 04:05
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You've got a point there....
Yep, FFIV is preetty sad and depressing and stuff.......
But that's nothing compared to Valkyrie Profile.
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Posted: 23rd September 2009 00:48

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Okay, the argument of comedy outweighing tragedy I don't think is a very strong one. Someone has mentioned before several of the depressing scenes in Final Fantasy VI, including
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
General Leo's death, which almost made me cry and hate/love Keka 10 times more


FFIV may have some sad and depressing moments, but you can't count FFVI as "less sad because more comedy", FFIV was straight up serious, which doesn't make it more depressing, just leaves less room for comedy.

And even the ending to FFIV was pretty sad
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Cecil's brother LEAVES to go sleep for forever, not giving the two a chance to a real life of brother hood and companionship


Both vidja games are depressing, but that's a kind of recurring theme in the Final Fantasies, and that's what makes us love the characters so much; we're there when they experience their tragedies, which pulls us into the story even more.
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Posted: 5th October 2009 11:18

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Quote (sungkwon @ 23rd September 2009 00:48)
Okay, the argument of comedy outweighing tragedy I don't think is a very strong one. Someone has mentioned before several of the depressing scenes in Final Fantasy VI, including
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
General Leo's death, which almost made me cry and hate/love Keka 10 times more


FFIV may have some sad and depressing moments, but you can't count FFVI as "less sad because more comedy", FFIV was straight up serious, which doesn't make it more depressing, just leaves less room for comedy.

Yes the scene of magi was sad

And yes there are alot of sad scenes with locke and cyan.

But there is also alot of comedy to raise your spirits(Exception for the world of ruin wich is very sad)

In ffIV you have alot of really sad events till the end,although it ends pretty well.

Still I love both games very much.



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Posted: 6th October 2009 01:45

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I think all the FFs have their fair share of happy/sad moments. RPGs in general have a lot of both happy and sad moments. I can name a few games where the endings are pretty sad and emotional.

FFVI though, Cyan's family scene... that's some pretty tragic stuff there. Likewise with Locke/Rachel in WOR. And Leo... when I played it years ago, yes I was one of those people who tried everything to keep him... tongue.gif

I do think that Cry In Sorrow is one of the saddest "sad moment" songs out of all RPGs.

This post has been edited by Smaddy on 6th October 2009 01:50
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Posted: 14th October 2009 08:47

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Would say that Final Fantasy IV was depressing but-

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In the end all who have *died * minus Tellah come back..


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Posted: 14th October 2009 13:38

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MASSIVE SPOILERS ALERT.

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Just by the sheer fact that FFVI has more characters to have sad moments does it make it sadder.

Enter Terra, who not only doesn't remember her past, but the only way she does is through the magical remnants of her father's dead body. Oh, now I remember. I was kidnapped by the Emporer when he murdered my mother, took my father hostage, and then did sick experiments on us both. He destroyed our community.

And Locke, so haunted by the tragedy of his fiance that he swears to protect any other damsel in distress. He has to live with the fact that she almost died saving him, and by the time she could remember who she or he was, she died.

Oh, hey there, Edgar! What's that? You only became king at a young age because your father died? For shame! And then your brother ran off, your only other tie to family?

Sabin, awesome! Same story, but your own master, who became like a father, was reportedly killed by his own son because he favored you? That's gotta hurt!

Oh hai Shadow! The ex train robber who had to kill his own best friend and start life anew!

Celes, what's up! You don't know your family, do you? The closest person you have to family dies at your own hands because you're awful at feeding someone fish! You try to commit suicide, you're so sad. The empire you grew up knowing poisoned a town, and you, trying to be humane, tried to help them and then YOU turned into the traitor! LIfe isn't fair, is it?

And Gau, the comic relief of the group. Bet you like shiny things! You know what would be cooler? To not be disowned by your father! You don't even know what family is, and when the closest semblance to humanity comes your way, you taunt them and we all have a good laugh. Oh, Gau!

Cyan, you noble man. Your whole family and entire kingdom were murdered before your eyes. You lost your wife and your son, and even your position in the kingdom. You are onnnne haunted person!

Oh, look, it's Relm! Her daddy abandoned her when she was little and her mom seems to have died Her "Grandfather" isn't even related to her. He just took her in out of pity.

And Strago, we can only guess how your wife/fiance/dad/brother/town was brutally decapitated! Better luck next life! At least you're not haunted by regrets of the past, like monsters you couldn't kill-oh wait....

Oh, Mog! Here's a light-hearted character! A simple cave dweller with a heart of gold, Mog can't possibly be a victim who lost his lady and has nothing to remember her by but a charm...

And Setzer, who can forget that free spirit whose only love died and went missing? You sure bounced back from that! Nice scars!



Just hearing about all these characters makes me want to cry. Every single one of them except Gogo and Umaro have some heart-wrenching tale ON TOP OF the whole, Empire destroying the world thing. I'd say that was sad.

But I'd also say that it was happy, too. In a game like this, where you want to feel like a hero after having played it, it's important to give your characters something worth fighting for so you can feel that drive to fight harder like they do and be inspired by their strength. Sure, a lot of people have to die (or in IV's case, act like they do) before you feel that. But that's the price of inner strength and drive, yeah?

Role playing games are to video games what the epic tales are to literature; they have some epic quest, full of both tragedy and joy, and often center around one main "hero" and his comerades. Because two video games produced around the same time happen to have sad parts, doesn't mean there was some sort of "era of depression."

Either way, to me, Final Fantasy IV was a more dreamy, romantic game about fighting for who you love and doing what's right over what's easy and what will reap the most benefits. If Cecil had stayed a high-ranking Dark Knight, he surely would've been banking, and had Rosa safe by his side the whole time, but what's right isn't always the easiest to do.

I could see you interpreting the game as sadder because of how blue they made a lot of the landscapes, and how easy it was to die, and how since you always had such few characters you felt more alone, but I woulodn't think it's fair to say that makes it more sad than FF VI or any other game, for that matter.

If you really think that there was some reason for the producers to make more depressing games, what would be the historical factor? What could have gone on in their lives to make them so sad? Furthermore, what makes you say these games are so much more sad than the others? I don't know the Breath of Fire game, so I"m looking for textual resources.

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Posted: 15th October 2009 12:40

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Quote (RelmArrowney @ 14th October 2009 13:38)
MASSIVE SPOILERS ALERT.

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Just by the sheer fact that FFVI has more characters to have sad moments does it make it sadder.

Enter Terra, who not only doesn't remember her past, but the only way she does is through the magical remnants of her father's dead body.  Oh, now I remember.  I was kidnapped by the Emporer when he murdered my mother, took my father hostage, and then did sick experiments on us both.  He destroyed our community. 

And Locke, so haunted by the tragedy of his fiance that he swears to protect any other damsel in distress.  He has to live with the fact that she almost died saving him, and by the time she could remember who she or he was, she died.

Oh, hey there, Edgar!  What's that?  You only became king at a young age because your father died?  For shame!  And then your brother ran off, your only other tie to family? 

Sabin, awesome!  Same story, but your own master, who became like a father, was reportedly killed by his own son because he favored you?  That's gotta hurt!

Oh hai Shadow!  The ex train robber who had to kill his own best friend and start life anew! 

Celes, what's up!  You don't know your family, do you?  The closest person you have to family dies at your own hands because you're awful at feeding someone fish!  You try to commit suicide, you're so sad.  The empire you grew up knowing poisoned a town, and you, trying to be humane, tried to help them and then YOU turned into the traitor!  LIfe isn't fair, is it?

And Gau, the comic relief of the group.  Bet you like shiny things!  You know what would be cooler?  To not be disowned by your father!  You don't even know what family is, and when the closest semblance to humanity comes your way, you taunt them and we all have a good laugh.  Oh, Gau!

Cyan, you noble man.  Your whole family and entire kingdom were murdered before your eyes.  You lost your wife and your son, and even your position in the kingdom.  You are onnnne haunted person!

Oh, look, it's Relm!  Her daddy abandoned her when she was little and her mom seems to have died  Her "Grandfather" isn't even related to her.  He just took her in out of pity.

And Strago, we can only guess how your wife/fiance/dad/brother/town was brutally decapitated!  Better luck next life!  At least you're not haunted by regrets of the past, like monsters you couldn't kill-oh wait....

Oh, Mog!  Here's a light-hearted character!  A simple cave dweller with a heart of gold, Mog can't possibly be a victim  who lost his lady and has nothing to remember her by but a charm...

And Setzer, who can forget that free spirit whose only love died and went missing?  You sure bounced back from that!  Nice scars!



Just hearing about all these characters makes me want to cry.  Every single one of them except Gogo and Umaro have some heart-wrenching tale ON TOP OF the whole, Empire destroying the world thing.  I'd say that was sad.

But I'd also say that it was happy, too.  In a game like this, where you want to feel like a hero after having played it, it's important to give your characters something worth fighting for so you can feel that drive to fight harder like they do and be inspired by their strength.  Sure, a lot of people have to die (or in IV's case, act like they do) before you feel that.  But that's the price of inner strength and drive, yeah?

Role playing games are to video games what the epic tales are to literature; they have some epic quest, full of both tragedy and joy, and often center around one main "hero" and his comerades.  Because two video games produced around the same time happen to have sad parts, doesn't mean there was some sort of "era of depression."

Either way, to me, Final Fantasy IV was a more dreamy, romantic game about fighting for who you love and doing what's right over what's easy and what will reap the most benefits.  If Cecil had stayed a high-ranking Dark Knight, he surely would've been banking, and had Rosa safe by his side the whole time, but what's right isn't always the easiest to do. 

I could see you interpreting the game as sadder because of how blue they made a lot of the landscapes, and how easy it was to die, and how since you always had such few characters you felt more alone, but I woulodn't think it's fair to say that makes it more sad than FF VI or any other game, for that matter.

If you really think that there was some reason for the producers to make more depressing games, what would be the historical factor?  What could have gone on in their lives to make them so sad?  Furthermore, what makes you say these games are so much more sad than the others?  I don't know the Breath of Fire game, so I"m looking for textual resources.

Very good comentary by the way.


The thing i feel in ffIV,i go through everything cecil goes through.

And you feel like your experiencing the tragedy first hand.

They are not made up or faked,they really are tragedies.

Granted that porom palom yang and cid don't die,but you feel sad because:palom and porom petrified them and at that moment you don't know if they will be unpetrified,cid is a great character and risks his ass off for you and injures himself,and yang risked death or serious injury to save the dwarves.

You can't help but feel sorry for yang since he has a family and at the moment it happens,you don't know if he is going to die,unless you beat the game.

The real sad parts are the death of king and queen of eblan and anna's death and even tellah.

I know that tellah can sometimes be rather stubborn and generally obsessed with revenge,but you can understand his point of view of losing a family member because of someone,i guess everything else lost its meaning and he only lived to bring justice to his daughter who died because of golbez.

He died and accepted it,its sad because of that.

It sort of reminds me of the old man in legend of legaia who lost his family to the seru and became hatefull and negative.

In final fantasy 6 on the first disk,there are alot of parts that are sad as well,especially cyan gau and terra.

sabim is a little more lighthearted and cyan doesn't always stay sad,sure there are sad scenes but there are also very funny scenes.

Although i think ff6 characters are more fleshed out than ffIV and alot more than FF7

But this isn't about ff7 so thats just my opinion of course.

anyways,the world of balance has alot of scenes to up your mood,the world of ruin is alot more hopeless and sad,but generally speaking if i lost my hometown my family and city and lived in a world full of death despair and destruction,i would feel that hopelessness too.

Both have their strong points though and it doesn't disqualify any of them

i wish to add some very sad songs:

ALL breath of fire 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc4XmvkZ3kY&feature=related breath of fire 2 the flower area before the final dungeon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0107VuI6UfI&feature=related scene were you get gold dragon powers very sad song,you must admit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L22IQJfo9hc&feature=related somewhat sad,its when you enter the dreamworld thingy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ46IMnPT_E you must live the saddest song in the game.

Final fantasy 6 tunes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UCvWWym74s&feature=related The saddest and most depressing song in the game,it has a feeling of hopelessness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aecagEu2tDU&feature=related not happy but not that sad either

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiLWZzeA3cY&feature=related pretty sad actually,one of the sadder pieces of the games.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdNPIw6SEqE&feature=related pretty sad as well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdQn2ghMF7k&feature=related very very sad,i would list as the 3rd saddest song in this game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTX52flnlKk&feature=related very sad song.

the songs are relatively sad,some of them more than others of course,for me celes song has a sort of helpessness in it that is very sad and world of ruins map tune is one that defines sadness and gau's theme.

As for FFIV:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=941ktzbRLiE&feature=related i give this second place in sadness.

Depending also on the scene too.

The scene of king and queen of eblan is the saddest part for me in the game,death of tellah was pretty sad but only because he wasted his life revenge till it was too late,and accepted death because he had no choice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtLAXxB_XfY&feature=related edwards lute theme,hauntingly beutifull and sad.

It's part tune,mostly its the events that make this so sad.




This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 15th October 2009 13:04

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Neil Degrasse Tyson.

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