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This is a question I've had since playing FF4. After learning about Dragoons I learn't that Edgar was able to wield spears and lances. I thought perhaps in early development Edgar may have orginally was mean't to be a Dragoon. I don't know if anyone shares my opinion but what do you all think?

The literal meaning of dragoon is "dragon knight".  I don't think dragoons always (as in, in every game) even wield spears, and certainly not all spear-wielders are dragoons.  Besides, Edgar is a king who uses tools, two things which would not be characteristic of a dragoon.

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I close my mouth now and I scream,
Open the door, there's nothing worth redeeming
I saw your face before in rough,
You should wait around a while, your body's bound to turn up.
So low for how high?
-Matt Good, "Running for Home"

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dra·goon   Pronunciation Key  (dr-gn, dr-) n. A member of a European military unit trained and armed to fight mounted or on foot. tr.v. dra·gooned, dra·goon·ing, dra·goons To subjugate or persecute by the imposition of troops. To compel by violent measures or threats; coerce.

Kain is THE definition of l33t.  Edgar is an engineer, but he's also a knight (as a king) which explains his lance skills.  Now what I'm wondering is why a dancer (Mog) uses lances.  

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"Number One, I order you to go take a number two."

I don't know about you guys, but I totally dig on spears and lances. I always unequip Mog's Mithrilpike during the 3-way battle in Narshe and then give it to Edgar, since it's the best weapon you have access to until Sabin's scenario.

Kain's a badass with a lance too. One of the main characters in a fantasy-type series of my own is loosely based on him-he weilds a pike and wears a helmet sort of resembling Kain's.

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"Nothing exists, but atoms and the void"
-Democritus

The closest thing FFVI has to a pure Lancer/Dragoon is Mog, since Edgar has the ability to equip swords and the like.  However, Mog's special ability classifies him as a Dancer, if you want to get technical about it.

None of them have the Lancer's unique ability to Jump.  However, the Dragoon Boots give any character this ability, which is the really distinctive feature of the class.  So I guess any character could be a Dragoon, as long as you don't consider lance proficiency a necessary quality.

The only real way to create a true FFVI Lancer would be to equip Mog with the Dragoon Boots.  Even then, he would be more of a multi-class Dragoon/Dancer, not to mention a Red Mage if you teach him any magic.

Really, all of the FF characters are pretty much multi-classed, since every one of them (with the exception of Gogo and Umaro) have the ability to learn and cast Black, White, and Gray magic in addition to their special skills.  Some of them are really beyond any classification at all, since their skills (like Blitz, Runic or Morph) don't really adhere to any sort of job class.  So I guess it's all in the way you look at it.

Speaking of Lances, I really do like them.  The Aura Lance and the Pearl Lance are two of my favorite weapons in the game, and Mog really tears through the opposition when equipped with them.  I rarely equip Edgar with a Lance, since he's equally proficient with swords, which are less rare.

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"I always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking."
~Dorothy L. Sayers

"The truly remarkable thing about television is that it allows several million people to laugh at the same joke and still feel lonely."
~T.S. Eliot

"Defeat is not defeat unless accepted as reality - in your own mind!"
~ Bruce Lee

DV: you can access the equip menu with them?

and SM: Gogo would be a Mime.

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Why do kamakazi pilots wear helmets?

I still like Dragoons

Moderator Edit

Please try to make your replies worthwhile to the thread.

FFVI had no real dragoons. Edgar could merely equip the weapons that the dragoon uses. It's not all about the physical appearance and abilities of the character which 100% makes him/her a dragoon. The personality has to be there as well. The definition shown earlier shows us the attitude and actions that must be there as well.

Quote

tr.v. dra·gooned, dra·goon·ing, dra·goons To subjugate or persecute by the imposition of troops. To compel by violent measures or threats; coerce.

This is why Kain is a dragoon and Freya the next 5 titles later. No one else pales in comparison. If Edgar, or any characters, were originally meant to be dragoons, we'd know right off the bat because there'd be something about the personality there even if the physical appearance and attributes were changed around.

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"If it is weak, either kill it or ignore it. Anything else honors it."
-Kaervek

Anyone who has played Ogre Battle will agree with me when I say, even if they meet none of the real specifications of dragoons, Slust, Fenril, and Fogel were the shiznit.

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I close my mouth now and I scream,
Open the door, there's nothing worth redeeming
I saw your face before in rough,
You should wait around a while, your body's bound to turn up.
So low for how high?
-Matt Good, "Running for Home"

Quote (Super Moogle @ 2 Sep. 2002, 14:46)

Really, all of the FF characters are pretty much multi-classed, since every one of them (with the exception of Gogo and Umaro) have the ability to learn and cast Black, White, and Gray magic in addition to their special skills.  Some of them are really beyond any classification at all, since their skills (like Blitz, Runic or Morph) don't really adhere to any sort of job class.  So I guess it's all in the way you look at it.

It's better if you keep the job system and the magicite system seprate.  

for instance, Terra and Celes learn both white and black magic without the aid of magicite - red mages

Cyan, without magicite, sticks to his Iaijutsu attacks.  (He's a samurai)

Sabin, a monk, learns blitz attacks (think yang's kick)

Edgar, the engineer, uses wierd techno gadgets. (and acts like a total geek with the womens)

Realm's a trainer. (She would be a lot more useful if she could store sketches IMHO)

Gau is weird. He's a combo: monk/beserker/blue mage.

Setzer: last time I checked there wasn't a gambler untill FF6. Is there one in tactics?

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"Number One, I order you to go take a number two."

It's not really a matter of "better" or "worse," since we're looking for accuracy and not personal opinion.  Try to keep that in mind.

Anyway, I must say that the closest thing that FF Tactics had to a gambler class was Rafa and Malak, the Heaven and Hell Knights.  The whole concept of the gambler job class is that their specials are based solely on luck (though a little timing with Setzer/Wakka's slots will do the trick).  Rafa and Malak take this to the extreme, as their special skills are entirely randomized.  This, ironically, makes them utterly useless in combat.

In the end, I think it's best to see FFVI characters as virtually classless, considering just how many variables come into play.  For example, the use of Espers means that everyone can conjointly become a summoner, which adds a whole new slew of problems to the mix.  The only people I can think of as having a distinct, fully-defineable class are Gogo and Umaro, who fall into the ranks of Mimic and Berserker, respectively.  Of course, even Umaro's Berserker class falls into speculation.

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"I always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking."
~Dorothy L. Sayers

"The truly remarkable thing about television is that it allows several million people to laugh at the same joke and still feel lonely."
~T.S. Eliot

"Defeat is not defeat unless accepted as reality - in your own mind!"
~ Bruce Lee

sometimes I don't get you, man.  I'm talking about accuracy, your the one talking about opinions.  

The Job system and the Magicite system are completely different.  the Magicite system doen't even exist until after zozo.  there's even an tutorial.  

If you still think the chars in FF6 are jobless, compare them to the chars in FF7 and FF8.  There's a big difference.

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"Number One, I order you to go take a number two."

Now that someone actually mentions it...square may have been thinking of making one of the characters a dragoon, but decided not to have a character who was a flat-out dragoon, but still wanted to keep the idea of it around simply by giving spears a couple of characters!  

And of course:EKain is the shiznit dragoon of all the FF series...but in my oppinion...Freya from FFIX ranks up there pretty high due to her interesteing backround and exellent spear wielding skills!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote (mael_duin @ 11 Sep. 2002, 18:28)

sometimes I don't get you, man.  I'm talking about accuracy, your the one talking about opinions.   The Job system and the Magicite system are completely different.  the Magicite system doen't even exist until after zozo.  there's even an tutorial.   If you still think the chars in FF6 are jobless, compare them to the chars in FF7 and FF8.  There's a big difference.

Relax.  No need to get touchy.  We're all friends here, right?  

Anyway, I really can't imagine how one could completely forget about the Magicite when comparing Job Classes.  And if you really want to ignore it, then I suppose you could classify a few of the characters.  But some of them are vague, at best, and others are just stretching it.  (Edgar as an Engineer?  True, according to Skill, but an Engineer couldn't use a Lance or Heavy Armor to save his life.)

On a side note, I really did think that Kain was the ultimate Dragoon/Lancer character.  Freya was interesting, to an extent, but nowhere near as powerful.

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"I always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking."
~Dorothy L. Sayers

"The truly remarkable thing about television is that it allows several million people to laugh at the same joke and still feel lonely."
~T.S. Eliot

"Defeat is not defeat unless accepted as reality - in your own mind!"
~ Bruce Lee

I agree with mael_duin. The Magicite system doesn't come into play until a fair way in (Zozo). By this time, you have got Terra, Sabin, Cyan, Gau, Celes & Locke. Celes and Terra can both learn magic. It is conceivable for them to learn *a lot* of the magic if you were psycho enough to level them up to ridiculous heights before Zozo. Edgar is an Engineer, it says so in the manual. But you say it's stretching it? And what about the description before you choose his name? His Tools? Figaro Castle?? And anyway, this disqualifies him from using a Lance properly how? I could work as an Electrician but still be proficient with weapons.

Terra and Celes are true mages, in the sense that they learn magic without the aide of Magicite. I think Relm is also, but I'm unsure of this (haven't seen Relm learn magic in-game; haven't used her enough). Strago is a Blue Mage, Shadow is a Ninja, it's a stretch but I'd class Gau as a Blue Mage (He is learning monster attacks), Cyan as a Samarai/Knight, Gogo as a Mimic, Sabin as a Monk, Locke as a Thief (that's TREASURE HUNTER!!!), and Setzer as a Gambler.

If we are going by a Job system, then FFVI is easily categorized, if we use the job system of either FFV or FFT as the base. And Super_Moogle, I think mael_duin only said what he said because of the irony. In your previous post you said this:

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It's not really a matter of "better" or "worse," since we're looking for accuracy and not personal opinion.  Try to keep that in mind.

Yet, in the same post it was all about your opinions of what should be classed as a Gambler class. FF7 has Cait Sith, who can be classified as a Gambler. If we take this into account I think Setzer was the first true 'Gambler' in the FF series. Or is it that the classes themselves sound a little...weird? Like saying that Relm is of the 'Artist' class? I agree then. There are 3 characters (Relm, Umaro and Mog) that don't readily slot into known classes; (though Umaro comes close to the friendly monsters you can get in FFT) but other than that...

The Magicite system is simply there to do 3 things: Summoning, learning magic and improving character base statistics. It doesn't change their inherent abilities, and the inherent abilities of the characters in FFVI are very easy to see/categorise when we compare it to hard-core Job Systems games like FFV and FFT. Meh, why I gripe? Gripe I know not why. Stop gripe me...mo-kay. </rant>. Bye.

Regroovinator.

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Just done it - Niko.
Where did I go today? - Microshaft.
Good times...really good times - Cok(ain)e.
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Si I guess the answers is Dragoons weren't even considered to be a class in FF6. Well that is a shame.

Quote (Regroovinator @ 24 Sep. 2002, 05:34)

Terra and Celes are true mages, in the sense that they learn magic without the aide of Magicite. I think Relm is also, but I'm unsure of this (haven't seen Relm learn magic in-game; haven't used her enough). Strago is a Blue Mage, Shadow is a Ninja, it's a stretch but I'd class Gau as a Blue Mage (He is learning monster attacks), Cyan as a Samarai/Knight, Gogo as a Mimic, Sabin as a Monk, Locke as a Thief (that's TREASURE HUNTER!!!), and Setzer as a Gambler.

Go ahead and call me SM for short, most everyone does.  

Anyway, back to this refreshing debate.  I've changed my ideas somewhat, since, as many have referred, there are a few characters with distinct classes.  However, many of them still defy classification, simply because of their unique skills and properties.

Relm does not, to the best of my knowledge, ever manage to learn magic on her own, and thus can't be called a mage in this sense.  Her "Sketch" ability is not particular to any class and has never truly been replicated in another game, and therefore her specific job is still a mystery.  Likewise, Cyan is strictly a Samurai, since a Knight would have breaking abilities.  And calling Gau a Blue Mage in its purest sense would be too much of a stretch; I'd think he was something of a multi-class Blue Mage/Berserker, since you can't control him in battle when he adopts monster properties (not to mention his skill is called "Rage").  Once again, Edgar could possibly be considered an Engineer, but an Engineer really isn't all that proficient with conventional medieval weaponry.  Even if this was disregarded, the sort of heavy armor that Edgar wears is definitely out of the question for an Engineer.  But if you really must have him as an Engineer, then I suppose considering him an Engineer/Fighter hybrid would do.

And I'd like to think that irony had little to do with it, since that wasn't the impression I was trying to make.  I was merely answering another forumgoer's previous question as to whether or not there was a Gambler in Final Fantasy Tactics, which I answered somewhat approximately.

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"I always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking."
~Dorothy L. Sayers

"The truly remarkable thing about television is that it allows several million people to laugh at the same joke and still feel lonely."
~T.S. Eliot

"Defeat is not defeat unless accepted as reality - in your own mind!"
~ Bruce Lee

Quote (Super Moogle @ 24 Sep. 2002, 18:14)

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Her "Sketch" ability is not particular to any class and has never truly been replicated in another game, and therefore her specific job is still a mystery.

Well, the info page called her a "pictomancer". I guess it's best to just leave it at that...

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*END TRANSMISSION*

The Japanese version of FF6 gave each party character a class next to their name.  In #narshe, we looked at someone's translation of these, we mused, we pondered, and we produced the classes given on the FF6 character pages primarily based on it.

So there you go, the FF6 characters technically have classes.  They don't correspond much to classic FF classes, and they don't alter the fact that it's all polluted because everyone can use any magic, but there they are.

I've got it! there CAN technically be a dragoon. Gogo! set his commands up like this
Mimic
Fight
Magic
Item
Mimic can be used like fight.
For his relics give him a merit award and dragoon boots.
Then equip him with a spear and other dragoon esque armor

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This one time I punched a bear in the forehead TO DEATH! I still have the scars on my chest. I am the manliest man that ever did man.

League: Z3roHawk
Steam: Zero_Hawk
Wii U: Zero_Hawk
FF14 - Goblin - Zero Hawk <Fiend>

Hey, that's pretty clever.  I have to try that sometime.

Reminds me of the Kappa the Imp party member trick.

And, for the record, "Pictomancer" is a cool word.  Thanks for clearing that up, Tiddles.  I guess everyone was sort of right, in their own little way.

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"I always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking."
~Dorothy L. Sayers

"The truly remarkable thing about television is that it allows several million people to laugh at the same joke and still feel lonely."
~T.S. Eliot

"Defeat is not defeat unless accepted as reality - in your own mind!"
~ Bruce Lee