One last thing (god knows I've left out so many!) This has to be the only game I know of that forces you to buy an add-on that only exists on a small island halfway across the world in order to obtain every item. One that is most likely incompatible with all but PSXs with their regional settings set for that particular small oriental island.

Why SeeD are a bit poo.
SeeD is the mercenary organisation which the playable characters of Final Fantasy Eight were members of (Except Rinoa). In previews for the game, a magazine in the UK said they were “A bit like the SAS”. That referred to the Special Air Service, this world’s foremost counter-terrorist and special operations forces. Australian, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland maintain regiments of SAS troopers, and most US Special Forces groups have doctrine derived from British special forces tactics from World War 2. When those five words (Or is it seven?) were written in previews of FF8, I was rather intrigued.

In hindsight, that description was an utter lie and actually an insult to the fine men and women who have served in groups “A bit like the SAS.”

SeeD are not a very logical organisation. They do not follow doctrines that in my view would be vital for their role. And they do not seem to have that good a track record of producing good soldiers.

Now, first off, SeeD train their operatives from a young age, like a high school where they teach you how to stab people instead of some less important subject like, presumably, religious , social, and moral education. This is a little similar to Judge Cadets in the famous Judge Dredd comics, except it misses two vital parts out. Building self confidence and morals.

Squall is the team leader of the group in FF8, but he’d never even be looked at for SAS selection. Hell, even Delta Force wouldn’t take him and they’re desperate! He’s a moody, depressed, non-versatile man with no real combat experience at the start of the game, and by the time he’s a team leader, very little actual field experience. He’s as green as grass. Worse, the rest of his team is greener than a man who had three hotdogs and then went on a roller coaster, and they too have severe morale problems as soldiers. They speak of their role in public, are about as covert as warning the enemy you’re ambushing them, and are also very stupidly armed, as well as being inflexible.

Squall is equipped with a Gunblade. A nice idea, but the model he carries is utterly useless for the role he’s in: namely, a covert operation which would require a concealed weapon. Now, it may be a videogame, it may have access to “hammerspace” or maybe the Galbaldians are complete morons and let people walk around Timber carrying a larger arsenal that the entire Belgian army has, but the fact remains he should be carrying either a nice little pistol, a pistol/dagger-sized gunblade rather than a  full blown sword/comedy oversized revolver gun blade. His leadership flaws are already obvious: he’s not a charismatic man, he’s not very concerned about his squads morale, he’s not had any experience as a second-in-command or field trooper, and he’s also stuck firmly into a single role, which is that of a gunblade user . All in all, for a mercenary, not a very useful set of traits. But for selection to the SAS, why would he not be considered? Well, first and foremost, his age and rank. Squall’s only 17, and if he joined the British Army, would probably be a private. His lack of diversity in skills would mean he’d need retrained.

Selphie has one very fundamental reason as to why she’d never join the SAS. She’s a she. She’s also suffering the same problems as Squall, in that she’s not diverse, and her morale and attitude is utterly wrong. No veteran fighter ever has that kind of attitude. And she’s still green. Her weapon of choice is worse that Squalls, very short ranged (Gunblades at least possibly able to fight a target at range) and also, virtually impossible to conceal.

Zell at least has a concealable weapon, unfortunately, it’s, in practise, useless. His fists may be able to beat a man to death, but if to beat that man to death he needs to cover ground under fire, he’s dead. His attitude approaches a mildly acceptable one: confident in himself and his mission,  but he’s poorly disciplined and does not respect rank.  He’s a typical green soldier, really, and he at least learns his lessons a little by the end of the game. Unfortunately, he’s still very much stuck rigidly to fist fighting, and at no point does he even seem to consider diversifying to pick up a rifle or a bladed weapon.

Quistis has some similar problems, but at least has some experience. Her weapon of choice is a little more concealable, but not very useful overall. Her whip has a range of maybe 5 meters. Any idiot can blow your head off from 10 meters away, or shrug off the hit which would be striking body armour or equipment, and then slice her in two.
Irvine. Now, he has a gun. He knows how to use it. His gun is a useful weapon, but not concealable, and worse, a  shotgun, which is not too handy at extreme range. He’s the sniper of the team, and that’s where alarm bells ought to ring. Sniping is indeed lonely if it’s on a battlefield context, but the trouble is, most snipers are either accompanied by a spotter, or given backup. Either that or they’re dedicated, some would say psychopathic, soldiers, willing to kill any target irrespective of any qualm about whether or not it’s right.  That’s why when he complains about sniping being lonely, he’s being a bad sniper. That’s why when he does not open fire straight away, he proves he’s not been trained properly as a sniper. He’s also a very strange person. Later in the game, we discover he has know every other party member except Rinoa since his childhood, yet he does not even begin to make an effort to say hello to his old friends, treating them instead as strangers.

Squad organisation is also a bit suspicious. Most military groups fight in fours, fives, or multiples thereof.  That allows for a leader, 2 people with heavier weapons, and 2 riflemen. In SeeD’s case, they have deployed a group of… three. And then becomes a squad of five, that splits up into a group of three SeeDs, and another  of 2 SeeD’s and a woman who is actually a terrorist. And not a very skilled one. No uniformity, no diversity, no long ranged fighting ability, no radio link to HQ, and no clear way of carrying all their weapons and equipment.

SeeD also use GF’s, which are actually dangerous to the user, and the users have not been told. Now, whilst that practice is not uncommon with actual soldiers (Countless soldiers having been exposed to carcinogenic smoke grenades and a-bomb testing), it seems very usual that SeeD’s commanders have not even confirmed nor denied the allegations that the GF’s cause memory loss.

Another problem is the exam process. Trainees are sent into combat, where they’re very likely to be killed. Not the smartest selection process (a little too Darwinian), and those being examined are not even sent there as full soldiers.

SeeD shouldn’t actually exist at all, really. They’re mercenaries, and as such, available for hire to anyone. No government could seriously tolerate an armed and highly trained (allegedly) body of soldiers available to anyone for a fee, as that would mean that insurgents, rebels, terrorists, and generally not very nice people in the government’s eyes could hire them to strike out at the government. Galbaldia should have, by all means, wiped the floor with them long before the game begun. It would be an easy task for a nation like Galbaldia, as SeeD’s bases do not appear to have any significant defences except mobility: which shouldn’t count against a fighter squadron at all.

SeeD don’t even appear to have any significant support equipment. No helicopters, no artillery, no armoured fighting vehicles, no fighter planes, no bombers, no paratroopers. Basically, if a determined assault was staged on Balamb garden , it would be captured very easily. After all, few of the SeeD’s are armed with long range weapons, and it does not appear that there are any heavy weapons in SeeD’s arsenal. That means tanks are virtually invincible, and, considering the average tank can kill you from a few miles away, if Galbaldia staged a ground assault, they’d have dominance in that just five tanks could pound the compound with long ranged fire. The enemy vehicle resistance would consist of a few cars, easily eliminated. Infantry deployed either by parachute or helicopter fast roping could clear out the entire building in about half an hour if they were equipped with the correct weapons and wargear, such as smoke, flash, and frag grenades. In short, Galbaldia should really have massacred SeeD. If the garden evaded the missile strike: hunt it down with Fighters.

So, a poorly equipped, poorly trained, and mostly inefficient force, which, incidentally, has terrorist ties and roots, and utilising child soldiers. Not so hot, not at all like the SAS. They’re an extremely unrealistic group, and whilst it may be “fantasy”, the misconceptions needed to be taken on, because they’re making people wrong in what they say, and leading to some of the worst fan fictions, general ideas and posts of message boards I have seen. Final Fantasy should ideally try again with something like Eight, but get the facts straight first. Professionals who act professional, rather than amateurs pretending they’re the mutt’s nuts special forces, when they’re actually special farces.

And for the record http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl02-e.htm RPG in the world

- WHO THE HECK DECIDED THEY WOULD ALL CONVINIENTLY BE ORPHANS THAT KNEW EACH OTHER? THE ENTIRE PARTY?! WHO? *gets dragged off by men in white suits*

And the dungeons: many dungeons were very, very linear. No going through mazes, solving difficult puzzles, or hunting for treasure chests anymore. Some of the later dungeons were slightly more complex but let's face it: we're definately nowhere near SNES RPG dungeons where secret passages led to powerful hidden equipment and dead ends had you backtracking and looking for hidden passages...

'Course I have complaints. There were some plot holes I mention and forgot to mention that seemed like the game and story was rushed. Ultimecia's still somewhat pointless consider the lack of her motives and 'fleshing-out.' The Junction system still is a bit too powerful. GFs still too powerful. Cid was a complete wimp and a disgrace to Cids everywhere. Some plot twists were unpredictable, but still stupid (orphanage). Quistis rarely wore her glasses and was pretty much phased out as the story continued. What's so wrong with Teacher-Student relationships doggone it?!? (Lashing out 'cause I never had the hot SeaGal (Seahawks football cheerleader) teacher at my school.)

It was great seeing Squall, a random kid just recently promoted to SeeD and totally inapt when it comes to interpersonal relationships, suddently and quite randomly being placed in command of the Garden.

I needed to change some of my wording.

Couldn't Square just have Ultimecia live on the moon (with all them spiffy monsters from that Lunar Tear thingie) and want to destroy the world because she's "The Last Boss ™"? It's totally lame, but at least I can buy that a lot more than her being from the future and trying to pull off this unecessarily convoluted plan that involves completely impossible events. Hell, it worked for FF4 with Zemus, it worked with the Dark Cloud from FF3, it worked with Kuja from 9...

Del S that is the greates RPG in the world

and then the end all be all truth that ff8 makes no sense
-The main character is 17 all 17 year old boys are hornier than Edge from FFIV
-The main character is being hit on by his supposively Hot 18 year old teacher, who carries around a whip
-The teacher takes the main character to the "make-out spot" in garden
-The teacher gives hint after hint
-The main character has no real response, and proves that he fails at life, by turning down the dream of 17 year old boys everywhere.

Figuring there's been such titanic posts complaing about it...it must have done something right.

But you have to remember a certain truth when you think about Squall and the ladies .  Girls love a**holes.  (I pray this is only a minority of girls though.)

To be fair, all these complaints could probably have been fixed if the developers and the like had more time to balance and think 'does this make sense?'.

I don't know...I haven't made a video game, so I have no idea how hard it could be.

You try following something that awesome.

I don't know if anyone has brought this up yet (I'm sorry I just don't have the patience to read through long posts right now ), but, one thing that always bothered me about this game is that Sorceress Adel has a MALE FIGURE!!!! This leads me to believe that there were extensive last minute plot changes going on, which is likely why the plot disintigrates near the end.

Although on that, wow, I didn't know everyone hated the Orphanage thing. I thought it was cute.

ORPHANS?! ARGH! WHO'S IDEA WAS THIS? WHO? WHOOOO??!! *Gets shot repeatedly with a barrage of tranquilizers darts, twitches, and falls over groaning a weak "Orrr... ph..." before passing out.*

Silverlance, it IS indicated several times in the game's tutorials and the classroom desk.

But I think your analysis of the game completely ignores the fact that this is Final Fantasy, and not Medal of Honor or Splinter Cell. In short, it isn't an attempt to emulate real warfare with all its intricacies - give it a rest, it's a fantasy game.

I have a problem with how the majority of you try to analyze Squall as simultaneously "angsty/emotional" and "cold/asshole/emotionless."

Del was really the only one to appropriately identify his personality; at the same time, though, he characterizes Squall is both having a very appropriate an inappropriate disposition for a soldier.

But really, Squall's abillity to check his emotions at the door in most instances is ideal - he would be well-suited to today's total institutions without breaking down like a little punk (I do agree he is NOT well-suited as a *leader* - but total institutions are for adaptable followers, not leaders).

But I think your analysis of the game completely ignores the fact that this is Final Fantasy, and not Medal of Honor or Splinter Cell. In short, it isn't an attempt to emulate real warfare with all its intricacies - give it a rest, it's a fantasy game.

That's just how I feel, but I could be wrong entirely.

Anyway, to comment on lack of armour, the Junction system takes care of anything that special effects in armour in other games would do. (Elemental absorbtion, status prevention, etc.) If we had armour with those effects in addition to the Junction System, then it'd be pretty broken, don't you think? (you can be pretty invincible as it is, with little effort.) Though I did miss Ribbons.

Anyway, I still think that people are overreacting with the whole "SeeD couldn't be a real military organization", and "Squall isn't a model soldier", because, well, they aren't . Not only is it a fantasy, but it's fiction. Everything's dramatized in fiction, of course. And it can't really be compared to real life either. That, and it's made in Japan, although I wouldn't know if Japanese culture would make any difference to how they see things in that kinda situation. Also, I don't belive Cid and Edea intended for SeeD to be a military organization (mercenary organization,) in the first place, although my memory on the specifics of this game's story isn't what it used to be. But yeah, they aren't a model of a real mercenary/military organization, but neither is a video game Certainly nothing to whine about.

That's really all I have to say for now. I just didn't like the extreme lack of kitties in this game

Wait, what armour did you think I meant? Body armour? I meant armour as in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1A2_Abrams http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenger_2_tank* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leclerc.

Only joking there, really, because Galbaldia's various robots could count for starters and it's really not very important in the long run. BODY Armour might have a replacement in the junction system but that means that as you attack, your defence goes down. That's not how it usually works at the small scale. As a result of junction, though, you were practically a walking bank by the end of disc 2 if you did it right.


Yes, but fiction that does not belive in realism when it really should is the lowest form of fiction in my belief. The suspension of disbelief vital to enjoyment is killed by the shabby and unrealistic organisation that is SeeD. Would YOUR neighbourhood superpower tolerate a mercenary camp that had no alliegance but to money? No. The Gardens would have been craters long ago.

Incedentally, if they didn't intend it to be military but needed a cover, why'd they go for military when it has :
-no ranks to speak of
-no support staff
-VERY short ranged combat that is virtually useless in reality (Operation Nimrod would have been a win to the Iraqis inside the embassy had the SAS went in with huge swords, whips, nunchukas, fists, boomerang things and doubl barreled shotguns...)
-No artillery, anti-tank weaponry, or anything allowing a chance against armoured forces.
-little diversity in individual soldiers
-no air support
-extremely poor discipline and training.

And in the real world, Galbaldia could have torn them apart with a regiment of paratroopers and a few tanks?

In their defence, they have the right approach by not having buzz-cuts. Special Forces often let their hair grow longer to help them do the shady undercover stuff: In the 1980's people with mullets in northern ireland were either SAS or victims of fashion, but I doubt that was a deliberate act on the part of the designers.


It's lack of cats and overabundance of stupid fleabags was indeed annoying. There were some cats in Timber though. And there was Squall, who is a...

*Best. Tank. Ever.

Well, the gameplay is the same as FFVII, ATB. Unless you're talking about the customization system.

Correction: FFVI, FFVII, and FFIX equally use the same ATB system, however, FFIV, FFV, and [v]FFVIII[/b] equally use freezing gauges and aswell as Chrono Trigger.

Anyway, FFVIII is a great game that was really balanced in most aspects.  The story was a little confusing and forced, the dungeons were bland, and the junction system was a love/hate system; most hated it, few loved it.  But other than those 2 things (which you could easily work around), FFVIII was great all around, just like FFVI.  The soundtrack was amazing as well as the graphics, the mini games were fun as well as intuitive (except the Pocketstation chocobo thing), and the characters had good development and could easily be related to.  Overall, I think FFVIII had much more strengths than weaknesses.

Story: The first few times I played FFVIII, I thought FFVIII was all about hunting witches.  That was when I was 9 or so.  Now then I’m older and have played it more, I can easily see where the faults in the storyline were.  The love story between Rinoa and Squall might have seemed forced (and they were to an extent), but think about it.

Squall is a bratty, angsty teen who doesn’t want to get along with people.  Hell, he was even oblivious to the signs Quistis was giving to him.  Rinoa was a perfect match for him because she was blunt and forceful.

She was the only person able to get through Squall’s adamant behavior because she could communicate the most to people and share her feelings, whereas Squall couldn’t.  Then, there’s the orphanage scene.  Seeing as they were just 6 or 7 (assumption) when they got separated, it’s highly believable that they couldn’t recognize each other when they grew up.

The GF also tampered with their memory since they were junctioned unto their memory spot in their brain.  As Irvine says, he only recently junctioned GFs which made him still remember a few things about the orphanage.  To me, it made perfect sense.  The only thing that I’m still confused on is Time Compression.  I’m playing the game again to figure that one out.

Characters: As I said before, the characters in FFVIII remind me of the characters in FFVI.  The majority of them didn’t have major parts in the story, but when they got their time, they used it to the fullest.  Squall, Rinoa, Laguna, and Edea had extremely good development which made them overshadow the other characters which had good development.  Overall, the characters in FFVIII are great, each with their own unique personality and storyline moments.

Typo Master #2 edited his post

By the way Del S (don’t mean to single you out), this game has opponents that can use magical and freaky powers.  It isn’t like the real world where when you get shot with a Shotgun, you instantly die.  This is why FFVIII’s military shouldn’t even be looked with a real life military outlook.  Thing is, mostly every FF after 3j has a military in it that doesn’t fit in with real life.  Why should FFVIII be different?  VI and VII are also FFs that follow the military theme very closely and each does a bad job with following a real life military.

Explain why FFVI has a military that doesn't fit with real life. I really hope you're a Roman Empire expert, or else I will tear you apart on this.
Explain why FFVII has a paramilitary force that doesn't fit with real life. I expect you already know that a corporation is the driving force behind this, which means only assets profitable to the corporation are defended. Oh, and guess what? The terrorism that was Avalanche was totally defeated. The Weapons were crushed. Chew on that for a bit; Shrina isn't incompetent and succeeded in nearly all their tasks of defending their customers.

I'm getting so sick and tired of all the strawmandering people attempt in order to defend FF8's inadequacies. FFVIII's SeeD structure would have collapsed in on itself just by examining canonical chain of command!
And guess what? Getting blasted by a shotgun in the real world doesn't mean you'll automatically die. Your false analogy ignores glancing hits, armor, distance, and plenty of other factors. Fighting in games models this with HP, which is why shotguns only do a certain amount of 'damage'. Because it's a model.

Zodiac has already dealt with all the other points you have given. I can't wait to read your explainations on FFVI and FFVII.

mostly every FF after 3j has a military in it that doesn’t fit in with real life.

In addition, if Galbaldia was going to attack Garden, why didn't they simply fire ze missiles asap? If they only have conventional warheads, what's the point of having a single facility that their enemies could easily destroy by use of their own missiles or special forces? And why not send a full invasion force? It's a hell of a task to undertake, but Galbaldia's meant to be super-advanced. Yet it can only invade targets it has a land route to until it lets it's garden fly and even then it's assault is a disastrous affair where they cannot even quickly nuetralise a group of rookies and green soldiers. The US Army can drop thousands of paratroopers anywhere on the planet within 24 hours, so surely an "advanced, futuristic" nation like Galbaldia should be able to drop armies in Balamb and Trabia, and wipe SeeD out at their remaining nests before hunting out remaining forces elsewhere. I don't see AA installations anywhere in Garden, I don't see how they could survive an armoured assault long...

It's glaring great holes like that in the actions of so-called militaries in the game, that see them act like a bunch of idiots at best, that are precisely why I continue to assault FF8 from a military perspect.

well i dont want to type a lot to defend this but final fantasy 8 was my favorite.

the story is amazing. thats one of my favorite parts.

the entire customization was great.

the relationship seemed one sided at first, and a little faky, but its not easy to get a full blown, 100% real relationship into a 40 hour rpg.

They could have maybe taken some time and made switch a little less sudden.

They could have maybe taken some time and made switch a little less sudden.

I'm disappointed in the lack of GardeNs or SorceresSes...

A lot of the older ones had pointless towns. III had several towns that you never really had to visit in the course of the game. IV had a couple. Like Mythril, and Tomra? Is that the dwarf town by the sealed cave? V had it's share of extra towns. Then at 6, it started to taper off. Suddenly, things happened in every spot on the globe. :-/

It's junction system wasn't the best IMO, I just didn't like the way it almost punished you for actually using your own magic in battle.
"Let's use Ultima! ... no... I can't, because it's nowhere in this game and I won't be immune to fire anymore if I do"
That was stupid to me.

the GF's and forgetting process is gradual and not super-big. when squal and co. equipped GFs, they didn't go insane and forget who they were or where they were, they just gradually forgot about things that had happened in the past, without even realizing it until they figured out what they had lost.

ok im sure that they could have expanded that so the gradual GF forgeting-ness made them forget how they got into garden or something like that.

it isn't the most solid part of the story.

when i played FF8, i always looked beyond that part. there were so many more interesting things happening in the story that i overlooked that sketchy part of the plot. honestly, i didn't even think that the orphanage was that important. they could have just said squall was there with elone and edea and i think it would have worked out fine.

ive said it before, the one problem with FF8's story is that they tried to put too much into it without spreading it out enough. had they made it a longer RPG to play and removed a few sketchy parts, then it would amazing.

unfortunately, a lot of RPGs (FF included) use some form of amnesia or somehow forgeting the past. FF7 had it. cloud was really messed up when it came to remembering things that were pivitol points in his life. in FF9, zidane couldn't remember where he came from or who he was, even though that was the most important thing about him, that he came from Terra to destroy Gaia and overthrow Kuja. FF5 Galuf forgot that he had been one of the four to seal ExDeath the first time. That seems like a little hard to forget.

it wasn't like FF8 was the only one to do that, but in FF8 (to me) it just didn't seem to be all that important. think about what would have happened if squall and ellone were the only ones at that orphanage, and squall just didn't make the connection between 'sis' and ellone. understandable, since as a child, he is never shown calling her ellone. and since edea got a complete make-over when she got taken over, he might not recognize her as the same edea. there have to be more than one person called edea.

Exactly. It's called "selective amnesia." Those afflicted by it only forget about things vital to the plot, such as them being childhood friends who grew up in the same orphanage together, had lots and lots of fond childhood memories, events that marked them for life, and promptly forgot about them afterwards for the sake of having a working storyline.

Ultimecia can't simply forget about her plan, that would break the storyline. Hence, selective amnesia.  The rest doesn't have to make sense - it's amnesia after all. Magic amnesia.

Spelling

Mind you, I don't think it's ever really a good way of furthering a storyline or bringing about details from the past.

I can't deal with pointless characters, it just bothers me

I agree, i don't realy even think they NEEDED the GF's to make them all forget...
Because they were all pretty young, therefore thier memory would be a bit foggy
(and squall wouldn't have to say "the GF made me forget"  )

Junctioning overall was ridiculous because it limited your magic use as well as just pumped up all your stats so that with a bit of leveling early in the game, you never really have to do more than hit the Fight button and occasionally hit the trigger for critical damage to change the pace a bit. I can't think of a single fight that made me pause, think and say "hmm maybe I should consider using (insert strategy here)"

Psssst, Death Penalty: Aura + Cancel Turn Until Limit.

I actually just realized something, and it relates to "Cid picking the ones from the orphanage on purpose."

I dont think Cid DID do this because when it came to shooting Edea, what if Irvine didn't use a gun?  Then maybe some other guy with a gun would join the party...

Psssst, Death Penalty: Aura + Cancel Turn Until Limit. It's this game's vanish/doom, only it isn't a glitch that can cause problems in certain cases. If you're smart, your party will be composed of characters whose limits multi-hit, such as Squall, Irvine, or Zell (IIRC...)

Using the magic as a pump on you stats allows you to play the game based on Attacking, rather than just unloading Knights of the Round over and over.

I realize the hypocracy in this post, but understand that the Aura thing doesn't come til later, and if you happen to rely on your GFs entirely, you will be incredibly SOL when they get weak, and your potions won't up their HP. It's kinda like the battery going out on a force field: You're still there, but a blood bath will ensue. Well rounded characters will make it a lot farther, even in FFVIII.

I've been persuaded that balanced is not the proper phrase.

- The summoner cannot take any other action while summoning. They give up around 2-4 turns this way. Should the battle situation suddenly change, the summoner is unable to adapt.
- The summon can be canceled completely by Silence, Berserk, Confusion, Petrify, and instant KO.
- The only means of healing GF HP during battle is the Minimog command which is unavailable without access to Chocobo World. And that isn't available for a disc and a half regardless. There's no way to revive a KOed GF in battle period. If the characters have poor Vitality and Spirit, then summoned GFs will also take quite a beating. (and if they don't, then GF assistance isn't really necessary)

The only cost you have to pay in FF8 is them being responsible for the worst plot device ever about halfway through the game.

I think you can add a long, boring animation to that equation. One of the reasons I never cast GFs is the amount of time they take to summon. I'm not a fan of boosting like a maniac either. At least FF9 had the courtesy of adding a "short" animation option.

Man. Orphans. Square, this game is when I lost faith in you.

just because it doesn't portray a great militaristic doesn't mean it's a crappy game.

I'm getting so sick and tired of all the strawmandering people attempt in order to defend FF8's inadequacies. FFVIII's SeeD structure would have collapsed in on itself just by examining canonical chain of command!

What about Cecil coming from the moon from FF IV ?
Galuf coming from another world and using meteors as transportation ?
Terra being half human- half fantasy creature ?
Tidus not being real and actually being a dream ?

Also judging the FF8 army soldiers to be more realistic. The game is called Final FANTASY. Fantasy is not real, made up. Why would you want a realistic solider in a fantasy game ? It wouldn't make any sense, if you want a more realistic solider game why not play Gears of War or something instead ?

So what if the SeeD army collapsed, many organizations and rebel groups do collapse in reality, nothing is prefect. Nothing is made on a unstoppable structure. It's a Final Fantasy game, come on, the game is meant to be enjoyed for fun and entertainment and some laughs, not judging whether a fantasy army force, something that's not real would stand in a real world.

Another thing that doesn't make sense is... GFs make you forget right?
So in the final battle with Ultimecia, she actually becomes one with her GF, so surely her memory should be totally erased by this crazy move.

What really happened

Ultimecia: Mwahaha, and now I shall merge with my GF Griever, and become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!!
Rinoa: Oh no! Squall do something!
Squall: ...whatever.
Rinoa: Irvine, shoot her dead!
Irvine: No... no, it would change history, argh, I can't do it!

Ultimecia becomes one with Griever, while lots of scary sparkly effects take place.

Ultimecia: Woah... um, who are you people, where am I, who am I?
Squall: ...?
Zell: You were making me my breakfast woman, come on, I'm late for the gym!
Ultimecia: Oh um, OK, err...
Zell: That's two fried eggs, hurry it up already. And make sure the toast is wholemeal.
Ultimecia: Sure thing...
Squall: Um, should we still kill her?
Zell: After breakfast.

As far as Time Compression is concerned, I think it's simple: It's a large-scale spell.

Why is the orphanage plotwist so bad of a plotwist ?

And the point of casting it? No, seriously - what's the purpose?

I like how in this day and age there are still people whining over a game that was made 11-12 years ago. If you don't like it, don't play it. If you don't like the attention it gets, don't bring it up -- you are no better if you do. As much as I don't care for Final Fantasy VIII (and Final Fantasy in general), I could still see myself playing it. It's not *that* bad, when compared to a plethora of horrid NES games (and the NES is my second favorite console... how about that?). Sure, this game had its faults and all that stupid bullshit but whining about it isn't going to solve anything -- you can't change anyone but yourself. Most people in the Final Fantasy community, as I have noticed, have the IQ of a twig and need to get laid (BIG time) because taking the time to sit down on that fancy chair while listening to trendy indie rock music and drinking crappy energy drinks as they bitch about an old game is about as productive as beating a dead horse. Move on.

None of these things involve the mighty level of coincidence (sorry, "destiny") that the orphanage reunion does. And yes, of course it was planned, but that doesn't mean it was adequately foreshadowed so as not to feel utterly bizarre (unless you read latin maybe). It's the combination of these factors, and quite possibly others I've forgotten.

Wasn't there a mention at some early point in the game about the GF Amnesia thing? I think:



It's not much but it does hint at something.

seifer is the only good part of the entire game

How so? He's an ass. He's not even an ass you can manage to feel sorry for (for instance, Prince Zuko in the first book of Avatar: The Last Airbender, even though he comes around).

A villain doesn't have to have redeemable factors to be a good villain. Perfect example: Heath Ledger's Joker.

blitzsage