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Because I'm unafraid to post topics to which nobody will reply, in the hopes of driving up forum traffic, here's one.

So I've got this baby on the way, yeah? And I just bought this house, right? So my wife's new commute is about three times as long as it was a few months ago, and there will come a time when she's having to haul around a little one. My car does a pretty good job of stuff, as it's a sedan and is sedate enough to do a decent job in most weather conditions; her car is slightly less capable of carrying a child or navigating freeways populated mostly with pickup trucks, particularly in winter.

So, we're looking to replace her car sometime this year. Her requirements

• Larger and with more doors than a VW GTI.
• All- or Four-wheel drive for when the roads get bad.
• Good crash test ratings to protect her and a (probably) screaming child.
• Under $28k new or $22k used (despite what you might think, we're a long way from wealthy).
• Auto tranny - who wants to drive a stick when there's a tiny distraction in the back seat?
• If possible, not completely generic-looking.

So, that leaves us with a list of cars that we've been kinda-sorta looking at, though we won't really start looking for another couple months, probably. Those cars include:

• Nissan Rogue
• Toyota RAV4
• Honda CRV
• Honda Element
• Subaru Legacy
• Subaru Outback
• Jeep Compass
• Ford Escape
• Suzuki Kizashi

At the moment, the Element and Rogue are leading the pack based on the very little information I've collected.

So, do any of you have any thoughts? Ever driven any of these, or ridden in one? What do you think a little R51 should get stuffed into, with car seat, stroller, and diaper bag, especially if it's not on the list?





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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

RAV4 is an awesome car and I'd love to have one in the future - just have no use for it now. I haven't driven in one, but an old friend had one and I got shuttled around quite often. It's awesome, and Toyota is always a good bet. Should be able to get quite a deal on, say, a used '08 now, too.

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Hey, put the cellphone down for a while
In the night there is something wild
Can you hear it breathing?
And hey, put the laptop down for a while
In the night there is something wild
I feel it, it's leaving me

I've been looking around, and this might be a consideration.

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-.../Hyundai_Azera/

The Azera. "The Azera may not excel at any one thing, but it does virtually everything well, and for less money than most of its competitors. "
I dunno, in your case, it seems like well-rounded is a plus. It's safe, seems to drive well, is spacious in your price range, so is if nothing else, a consideration.

Also, you can get a 10 year/100,000 mile warranty, which is nice. It's described on that site as a "Comfortable grocery getter," and it has a great safety score.

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You're telling me that there's no hope.

I'm telling you you're wrong.

Neal: The RAV4 worries me a bit because I'm afraid it will ride like my Corolla. I don't know if mine is like yours, but mine has bricks for struts. However, I've never owned anything but a Toyota, unless you count the Volkswagen which I rarely drive, so getting another seems both like a great idea and a bit of a boring one too.

Relm: I haven't looked much at Hyundais, and I probably wouldn't look at an Azera due to the requirement of all-wheel or four-wheel drive. The Azera just doesn't have it. However, I will say that I should probably put the Hyundai Tuscon on the list, as it's pretty roughly comparable to some of the other mini-SUVs on there.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

I drive a Subaru Impreza 2009 hatchback that I got about a year ago, which is pretty near as you can get to the outback. Both are pretty popular up here and I have a few friends that drive older versions of the outback. If AWD is a concern Subaru obviously have that nailed down pretty well, and from the quick research I just did Imprezas seem to have really good safety ratings overall. I got mine for ~$20,000 new (with a little parental help and a finance plan) including the auto transmission, and I think the non-hatcback units can go for even less. If you're willing to buy used, you can get a great deal and probably a 100,000 mile warranty as well. Both the Impreza and Outbacks have pretty roomy trunk space but I couldn't tell you on how a child seat would fit in the back seat, which is obviously a big concern.

The only significant differences between the outback and impreza - as far as I can tell - is that outbacks ride higher. If you're not planning on going offroading or driving through two feet of snow you might want to look into impreza vs. outback and see if one fits in your budget better. The only criteria that both those cars don't seem to fit is that they're both fairly generic looking, but for someone like me sacrificing style isn't really a problem. If you have any more questions about the impreza specifically I then feel free to fire away.

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"We're not tools of the government or anyone else. Fighting... fighting was the only thing I was ever good at, but at least I always fought for what I believed in." - Frank Yeager (a.k.a. Grey Fox)

If you can get past its generally unattractive exterior, I'd have to put at least half a vote in for the Element. I've had good experiences, and although I don't really like the car myself, I have to say that in terms of functionality, space, and value, it's not too shabby.

The downsides are, first and foremost, the inverted doors. They're just a bad idea. Really inconvenient to have to open the front doors on all occasions and generally annoying when trying to unload in a parking lot. Secondly, not sure exactly how it pans out as a car for infants and young children. The back seats are noticeably raised... it's stadium style seating, so to speak. But if that's the reason that it's so darn spacious inside, then it's more of a pro than a con.

Never been much of a car freak, but hope that helps a little.

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I find your lack of faith disturbing...

Nothing says soccer mum like a big 4x4. Seriously though, with the kid and everything it's probably safer to have the biggest thing on the market. My sister had a cheapy 4x4 for a while now she's got a new Volvo estate. She has two kids, so both cars were bought with bigness and comfort in mind. Practically thinking the more space the better, as you've said. However, if you're worried about petrol costs, and kids cost a fortune on their own obviously, the MPG will be a pain.

I'd go with the Subaru Outback or the Jeep, as long as their MPG isn't stupid.

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

Quote (Kappa the Imp @ 7th March 2011 17:33)

If you can get past its generally unattractive exterior, I'd have to put at least half a vote in for the Element. I've had good experiences, and although I don't really like the car myself, I have to say that in terms of functionality, space, and value, it's not too shabby.

Ooh, yeah. My friend and his wife have an Element for carting around their kid and it's actually really awesome. The outside might look like it's made out of Lego, but it's awesome on the interior, is full of room, and it's easy to move and fold down rows of seats to give yourself more space if you need to haul. Everybody I've talked to who has one really says it's an awesome car.

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Hey, put the cellphone down for a while
In the night there is something wild
Can you hear it breathing?
And hey, put the laptop down for a while
In the night there is something wild
I feel it, it's leaving me

First, let's get over to fact that I haven't posted in the forums or gone into chat for a very long time. Just know that I'm a long time listener! :-)

That being said, while I haven't drive the Nissan Rogue, we have it's slight larger brother, the 2009 Murano which we love. It is a little bit more pricier then the Rogue but offers a little bit more room, and more "luxuries". Granted, we optioned the hell out of it (backup camera, double sunroof, blue-tooth, XM, etc., etc.) and the price was closer to $40,000 then $30,000. I think we actually bought it for $36,000 which when I think about it now is moronic because it's not even close to a luxury car. However, you can get the same model I got (the SL) for around what you're looking to spend.

In terms of problems with the car, it's been perfect. I'm a big fan of Nissan and it's luxury division (as I had the G35 sports coupe). Neither car has given me any problems what-so-ever.


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You tell me.

I have to say first, and Iceman will probably rip me for this (hi, Iceman!!), but I actually love the Element's styling. It's unique without being utterly ugly (see: Nissan Cube), and I've always been a fan of the box on wheels.

For Sweets, while I love the safety side of Volvo, I hate sitting in one. My own mom once had a V70 XC, which was the AWD wagon's nomeclature back about six years ago. Looked great from the outside and on paper, but after doing a cross-country trip in it, I never want to sit in one again.

FH: It looks like for 2011 Subaru has killed any automatic version of the Impreza, and the five-door as well, according to KBB.com. If that's not the case, though, you make a strong case for it - or, maybe depending on when I really start looking, I could see a five-door 2010 model. Definitely cheaper than the Outback, and I don't think my wife necessarily wants a full-on wagon anyway (though I think she'd appreciate the ride height, as she's about half a foot shorter than I).

Ice: I've loved the Murano since they debuted, to be honest. I don't remember you telling me you had one, though. However, for 2011, the base-level S with AWD starts at a hair over $30k and only goes up from there (the 2010 does come in a couple grand less, which would be nice, but still just a base model). The space would probably be nice, but that's a bitter pill to swallow right now, at least until our other bills (like all of the stuff we had to get for the house, and my wife's remaining student loans) are off the table.

Keep the opinions coming, folks! I appreciate them, if for no other reason than I just like talking cars. That's why I posted this a good couple months before I really start shopping big-time.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

Quote (Rangers51 @ 8th March 2011 08:35)

(see: Nissan Cube)

If you got a Cube - or even the giant boxy Scion - I would find a way to ban you from CoNChat forever.

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Hey, put the cellphone down for a while
In the night there is something wild
Can you hear it breathing?
And hey, put the laptop down for a while
In the night there is something wild
I feel it, it's leaving me

I can't really offer much constructive input here, but I've simply got to post to say hi to Iceman.

Toyatas run forever, so I'd say go for the RAV4. It's a nice compromise between having the things you need and not being ridiculously huge and powerful (which comes with bad gas mileage). Matter of fact, the electric RAV4 is pretty much my dream car. They're almost impossible to find, because Toyota (along with several other companies) scrapped most of their electric vehicles. There are a few around Santa Monica; I see them from time to time and get slightly jealous.

This post has been edited by Reod Dai on 12th March 2011 05:21

It's funny to me that it really is true what they say: you never notice a car until you start really thinking about buying one for yourself. I can't count the number of RAV4s I've noticed on the roads around here since I first posted this thread, of all colors and model years. It's wild.

My wife says now that she might not want to start looking until May or June, so I might have this on hiatus for a bit, but if you have any further thoughts, spit them out!

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

I never would've posted this if I hadn't gotten a Forte as a rental car last week, but you might want to check out the Kia Sportage. I didn't really know much about Kias and figured they were lower quality and not good rides, but the Forte was really fun to drive and had a lot of really nice features. I went on the Kia website and the Sportage does fulfill all of your requirements (AWD, 5-star crash test ratings), and you'd be able to pretty much fully-load the thing and keep it within your price guidelines. Check it out!

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Hey, put the cellphone down for a while
In the night there is something wild
Can you hear it breathing?
And hey, put the laptop down for a while
In the night there is something wild
I feel it, it's leaving me

Thanks, Neal. I couldn't find any information about the Sportage having AWD until you mentioned it, and now I do see it. The 2011s are actually pretty attractive, too - I saw one at a stoplight last night and was impressed. I hear from my friend at work who just got a Kia Hamster Soul that it rides pretty nice, is put together tightly, and was actually designed by former Audi people, so I can buy that it's a more quality car than people expect.

The LX model is the one that would be solidly in my price range fully loaded. I have to admit, though, I'm curious what the turbocharged one coming out later this year might cost, heh.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

You sound like you're leaning towards bigger, but how do you feel about the 2011 Sebrings? I dunno why, but I've loved Sebrings. They're very roomy inside, AWD, very good safety ratings. Decent price, though they don't seem terribly popular, so I'm probably missing something!

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You're telling me that there's no hope.

I'm telling you you're wrong.

Quote (RelmArrowney @ 26th March 2011 13:53)

You sound like you're leaning towards bigger, but how do you feel about the 2011 Sebrings? I dunno why, but I've loved Sebrings. They're very roomy inside, AWD, very good safety ratings. Decent price, though they don't seem terribly popular, so I'm probably missing something!

I don't think there is such a thing as a Sebring with AWD. There might be when they do the facelift later on this year? Or, you could be thinking of the Chrysler 300, which would be a forgivable mistake. They offer a AWD version of that, but that starts at $12k more than I'm looking to spend, and it has way too big an engine.

I think it's starting to come down towards the Subaru Outback (it has the capability to be a satellite-powered wifi hotspot, how cool is that?) or the Honda Element, at least based on what my wife is thinking so far. However, we haven't DRIVEN either of those cars yet, just seen them, so my whole list above and then some might still be in play.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

Being the resident Mazda fanboy/boy racer around here, I really have to suggest taking a look at the Mazda CX-7 and CX-9. They have AWD versions, and they look pretty good to boot. I also happen to have it on good authority that they're pretty good if you do end up upside-down in a ditch. . .

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Music trancends time. . .

The CX-7 definitely starts at the top end of what I'd be willing to pay, but I have heard nice things about them. I'm not sure that their looks justify what I'd have to pay for one, but I'll definitely check them out if we go through the first few options without finding a winner, thanks.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

Quote (Rangers51 @ 31st March 2011 10:04)

The CX-7 definitely starts at the top end of what I'd be willing to pay, but I have heard nice things about them. I'm not sure that their looks justify what I'd have to pay for one

Really? You're bashing the cost to looks ratio of the CX-7 but are okay with the styling of an Element. You, sir, baffle me!

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You tell me.

Quote (Iceman @ 4th April 2011 14:06)

Really?  You're bashing the cost to looks ratio of the CX-7 but are okay with the styling of an Element.  You, sir, baffle me!

Yeah, I optioned out a 2011 CX-7, the cheapest one on which you can get AWD, and it came out at $30k even. It looks nice, just not nearly nice enough for me to pay three to four thousand dollars more than everything else I'm looking at. It might be different if we didn't have a mortgage, student loan payments, and baby bills all happening right now too, but bottom line is we do.

Also, I pointed out a CX-7 to my wife and she wasn't crazy about it. And, hey, it's her car.

We went home for someone else's baby shower last weekend, though, and out of boredom on Saturday (plus the fact that it was a really nice day!), we decided to bundle my parents into the car and cruise some lots. Worked out well for us because we could feed my parents to the jackals at each lot and shop unfettered.

Here's what we discovered: despite really liking the Element a lot, we're almost surely not getting one. It can only seat four! The rear seat does not have space for two adults and a car seat, as the seat splits 50/50 and has only two seatbelts. That means if either of our families come to visit, we can't drive the car. However, the CR-V really impressed us at Honda; it's prettier up close than you think, has a very clever cargo shelf in the back to help use the space, and the back seats even recline a bit.

After that we went to the Subaru/Toyota dealer in our hometown. We checked out the RAV4, which was about everything we expected. No big surprises, it appeared to be a nice vehicle and polished the way you would expect a Toyota to be. The swinging rear gate is a nice feature, too.

However, it was the Subies that really impressed my wife. I already knew she hadn't given them enough of a look, so I'm not surprised that she was surprised; however, I am a bit surprised that she completely fell in love with the Forester instead of the Outback, which I find a lot more attractive. However, it's got a lot of space, seats five, and has a pretty generous feature set for the price. The engine appears a bit anemic but given that Subaru are known for their Boxer engines, I'm not too worried about it.

It looks to me like when we start doing some test drives, maybe as soon as this weekend, that the Forester has climbed to the top of the list, probably followed by the CR-V. We still have yet to go look at any other cars from the list, though.

Edit

Found this during an unrelated search. Oh, how naive I was.
Old old post, yeesh.

This post has been edited by Rangers51 on 5th April 2011 21:47

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

Well, as it turns out, suddenly, we're all done. We test drove two vehicles on Saturday, a 2011 Subaru Forester and a 2011 Nissan Rogue SV.

The Forester was really disappointing - it didn't feel like it had enough power because the transmission was not very responsive and only had four gears. Not only that, my wife, who is of perfectly average height, couldn't see anything over the hood - the seating position was so awkward that she didn't even feel comfortable driving it.

Then there was the Rogue. It was really comfortable, had a nice equipment set, and a really nice, smooth CV transmission. It felt more powerful than it really is, unlike the Forester, which felt less potent than it was. My wife fell in love with a black one right away, and after a couple days debate, the Volkswagen's going away tomorrow night in exchange for the Rogue (which was a few thousand dollars cheaper than the Forester anyway).

Thanks for your opinions, everyone, I hope this turns out well.

This post has been edited by Rangers51 on 12th April 2011 20:20

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

Good stuff, man! Hope you enjoy it! As I said, I'm a big fan of Nissan.

Followup, question... Did you go a 2001 or a 2011 Rogue?

This post has been edited by Iceman on 12th April 2011 19:29

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You tell me.

Heh, 2011. The SV is a new model level for 2011.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

One last bump for me - I spent a few hours today washing and waxing the thing so I decided to get a couple photos of it. This is probably only relevant to folks who have never seen one of these before, so, here you go:



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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

I was so excited to see this thread title. I love a good 'ard, yet family friendly, car. In my opinion you picked the joint best one, that and the Subaru Legacy Outback. I have a special bond with the Outback, it was the first 'big' car(I've only been driving a year ) I ever drove. The Nissan Rouge is my brother's car of choice atm, he went for that kinda brassy looking one. I must say I prefer yours.

Thought I'd necro this thread since I just bought a new one again officially this morning. I'm now inheriting the Rogue aforementioned, and we traded in my 12-year-old car for this slick little thing for my wife:



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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?