CoN 25th Anniversary: 1997-2022
Time Manipulation [SPOILERS]

Posted: 20th August 2004 03:39

*
Onion Knight
Posts: 26

Joined: 26/7/2004

Awards:
Member of more than five years. 
It is me or the plot of Final Fantasy I dont make sense?. If I remember correctly events are linked like this:

1: the Light Warriors defeats Garland
2: Then the spirit of Garland is used by The Four Fiends, who were defeated in the past and turn him into Chaos, then they travel back in time to spank the ancients to total extintion
3: The Light Warriors destroys every one of the Four Fiends
4:Finally, the Light Warriors travels back in time into the tower of chaos, they defeat the Four Fiends again because they still existing in the past, and finally face Chaos.
5: everything starts over.

So, did i get it right? what I dont understand is, If there is a time loop, everything begins again, starting with the defeat of Garland at the temple of Fiends, but what is that maded it to stop?, what happens diferent the time you play it that somehow breaks the cycle and let you finish the game?

I cant believe this, i mean, I managed to understand Xenogears but this thing always has been confusing me. I know that the game is from the 80´ S and everything, but that is not excuse for making a story that only tricks you and is only meant to poorly link the events of the game.
Post #56870
Top
Posted: 20th August 2004 06:05

*
Disciplinary Committee Member
Posts: 670

Joined: 10/5/2004

Awards:
Member of more than ten years. Member of more than five years. 
Its a glitch in the space time continuim, better left non-fathomed. Personnally, I dont even count the game as the real story- 8 Bit Theatre is what I follow.

--------------------
Uwao. aooh! I'm Gau!
I'm your friend!
Let's travel together!

Post #56889
Top
Posted: 20th August 2004 19:46

*
Lunarian
Posts: 1,253

Joined: 27/2/2004

Awards:
Member of more than ten years. Member of more than five years. 
Well see, you've beaten them in both the past and your time, so when you return to your time, there is no one left to fight. The real question is, why are they harder in the past...Did they get meeker after the first(second in game) time you smacked them down?

--------------------
"That Light has bestowed upon me the greatest black magic!"
Post #56970
Top
Posted: 20th August 2004 22:22

*
Cetra
Posts: 2,397

Joined: 22/3/2003

Awards:
Member of more than ten years. Member of more than five years. Winner of the 2005 100k post contest. 
This is one of those things that makes me hate time travel.
If I remember the dialogue correctly, when the Light Warriors were smacking around Garland in the past, every time he died, either the Four Fiends went back a bit in time and sent a previous version of Garland to them, or killing Garland made it as if he never went back. I also think they were sending Garland from a future in which he hadn't died. Or was he coming from the past?
You know what? It's easier to just say parallel dimensions.
The part I did get, though is that by killing Chaos, the Light Warriors undid the deterioration of the Orbs, thus undoing the adventures they went through. So in the new timeline, there are no Light Warriors.

Quote (Wind God Gau @ 20th August 2004 02:05)
Its a glitch in the space time continuim, better left non-fathomed. Personnally, I dont even count the game as the real story- 8 Bit Theatre is what I follow.

Yes, because a fancomic is going to be more accurate on the plot of a game than the actual game itself.

Quote (The Ancient @ 20th August 2004 15:46)
The real question is, why are they harder in the past...Did they get meeker after the first(second in game) time you smacked them down?

Old age?

--------------------
"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
-Brad Meltzer
Post #56987
Top
Posted: 21st August 2004 03:53
*
Treasure Hunter
Posts: 69

Joined: 10/8/2004

Awards:
Member of more than five years. 
Well, if I'm not the mistaken, the same plot is used in a quite a large number of science fiction books and films, including Terminator.
It's better to leave such things alone smile.gif
Post #57018
Top
Posted: 21st August 2004 07:13

Group Icon
Wild 'n Wooly Shambler
Posts: 1,279

Joined: 6/6/2004

Awards:
Member of more than ten years. Member of more than five years. Has more than fifteen fanarts in CoN galleries. Has more than fifty news submissions to CoN. 
It's also used to a point in Ocarina of Time; the ending of which still confuses a number of people. I pretty much believe the same for both games as for why the events don't repeat themselves: split timelines. Dur.

Also, by defeating Chaos and thus Garland permanently in the past, there would be no one in the present to summon the Fiends whom are also eventually destroyed in the past. Or, if Garland could still exist somehow in the present, there would still be no Fiends to help him out...at least not from the original two thousand years ago. Then again, I guess he could just use them from an earlier time period than that...

Well, nuts.

--------------------
Words of Wisdom:

If something can go wrong, it will.

If anything simply cannot go wrong, it will anyway.

If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong.
- Murphy’s Law

Boing! Zoom! - Mr. Saturn
Post #57039
Top
Posted: 29th August 2004 03:18

*
Cactuar
Posts: 233

Joined: 25/3/2004

Awards:
Member of more than ten years. Member of more than five years. 
I hate this. I fully and perfectly understood the storyline when I played the game and beat it, but now, I've forgotten it all. Lessee here... nope. crap. I can't remember anything.

--------------------
"It is a part of human nature to be evil, and it is a part of human nature to destroy evil, therefore, when evil is destroyed, so will be the human race..."
- Atma
Post #57836
Top
Posted: 29th August 2004 03:45

*
SOLDIER
Posts: 734

Joined: 8/7/2004

Awards:
Member of more than ten years. Member of more than five years. 
Ouch this one makes my head hurt. Okay this is how i concive it, how this is possible is cause of this one fact like in the ocerina of time the events that happened are stopped cause you destroy whatever it was that caused it. In oncerina of time the sages stayed in the temple of time and gaurded gannon thus stopping the chaos in the time. they sealed the evil, same pricinple here. It would be like going back and stopping your own birth if you did that you'd simply sece to exist, defeating some on in the past wo was in the future would in theroy do the same thing, as you said it kept bringing him back to different point(if i read it right) meaning you probly killed him from every time period that he existed in. Either that or they reached a paradox.


--------------------
Don't fear the reaper!
Wonderful system this "Democracy" is no mechanism to break a tie -Dinobot-
It's spelled Raymond Luxray Yatch but it's pronounced Throat Wobbler Mangrove.
Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici
Sic Semper Tyrannis bush.
Post #57837
Top
Posted: 29th August 2004 07:39

*
SOLDIER
Posts: 709

Joined: 28/8/2004

Awards:
Member of more than five years. 
Is a paradox. ^^ The timeline is as follows: And this is somewhat twisted...


Possible spoilers: highlight to view
The time paradox;
Garland kidnaps the princess after a missunderstanding.
Garland is defeated by king's men. (I assume)
4 Fiends (in the future) send Garland's spirit to the past using the power of the crystals.
Garland's hate and anger form Chaos.
Chaos creates the 4 fiends.
Chaos sends the 4 fiends to the future to take control of the crystals.
Fiends capture crystals and bring chaos to the land.
1000 years later they indirectly effect Garland's life. (through all the events caused by them)
Garland kidnaps the princess.. thus the paradox begines.

Our time;
Time creates 4 warriors to fix time.
Garland kidnaps the princess after a missunderstanding.
Light Warriors defeat Garland.
4 Fiends (in the future) send Garland's spirit to the past using the power of the crystals.
Garland's hate and anger form Chaos.
Chaos creates the 4 fiends.
Light Warriors defeat 4 fiends in the future.
Light Warriors free the crystals, opening the path to the past Garland took.
Light Warriors defeat the 4 fiends in the past as they're created.
Light Warriors defeat Chaos before he sends them foward.
Time takes a new path!
All chaos caused by fiends never happen, Garland is never effected, fiends are never created, crystals never taken etc.
Horrah! World peace as if never ever happened.. cos.. it didn't >>


As for why they're more powerful, mebbe being near Chaos helps ^^" Or, mebbe after 1000 years sleep they're groggy tongue.gif

This post has been edited by Mu the Squirrel on 29th August 2004 15:54

--------------------
The Arcana are the means by which ALL is revealed.
Post #57853
Top
Posted: 29th August 2004 08:45

*
Holy Swordsman
Posts: 2,034

Joined: 29/1/2004

Awards:
Member of more than ten years. Participated at the forums for the CoN's 15th birthday! User has rated 25 fanarts in the CoN galleries. Member of more than five years. 
Second place in the 2004 Gogo Fanfiction contest. Third place in the 2009 Quiz contest. 
Wow Mu. That's pretty good. It makes alot of sense and clears alot up for me.
happy.gif

--------------------
If you've been mod-o-fied,
It's an illusion, and you're in-between.
Don't you be tarot-fied,
It's just alot of nothing, so what can it mean?
~Frank Zappa

Sins exist only for people who are on the Way or approaching the Way
Post #57856
Top
Posted: 30th August 2004 02:08

*
SOLDIER
Posts: 734

Joined: 8/7/2004

Awards:
Member of more than ten years. Member of more than five years. 
um could you repeat that i think i missed something....

--------------------
Don't fear the reaper!
Wonderful system this "Democracy" is no mechanism to break a tie -Dinobot-
It's spelled Raymond Luxray Yatch but it's pronounced Throat Wobbler Mangrove.
Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici
Sic Semper Tyrannis bush.
Post #57925
Top
Posted: 22nd September 2004 05:08

*
Chocobo Knight
Posts: 129

Joined: 25/8/2004

Awards:
Member of more than five years. 
Quote (The Ancient @ 20th August 2004 14:46)
The real question is, why are they harder in the past

That has to do with increasing game difficulty, bot that's just getting technical. I don't think the writers thought of that. Then again, it just might be from old age. 1,000 years is a long time.
On a side note, has anyone else noticed that there are four feinds (earth, water, fire & wind) in both FF1 and FF4?

--------------------
When life gives you lemons... SQUIRT THEM IN PEOPLES EYES! Mwahahahahaha! *Squirt* Ow! Hey, that was my job! *Squirt* Knock it off! *Squirt* I want my mommy! Waaah! *runs off*

The moral of this story is *Squirt* Ow! *Squirt* Okay, okay, no morals.
Post #60275
Top
Endless Knight
Posted: 22nd September 2004 11:48
Unregistered





Here is a more of a visual picture about what Mu was talking about.

In Back to the Future 2 you see Doc Brown explaining how the alternate Hill Valley came into being. One person goes back into the past, changes things, and when the people return from their trip to the future, they see that the past time that they came from was altered. Now we have something that looks like this:

Code

Past                         Future
----------------------------------
           | Change
           -----------------------
             Alternate timeline


If a person goes back in time and goes beyond the point of change, the two time lines are on the same "track." If they proceed to where the change occurs and do not stop it, they switch off into the alternate timeline route. The original future timeline is not erased, but simply bypassed. If, however they return to the point before the change occured, and remove the catalyst for change, they switch back to the original "track", and the alternate track is bypassed. The alternate timeline still exists, but is bypassed by those people currently living in that time, that reality.

If I'm not mistaken, this grossly simplistic explanation, is based on a real theory of alternate realities, one for each different choice and possibility in life. I think they did a Star Trek: TNG episode, mentioning the theory, and involving Worf. This is how I think they can break the "time loop." It was a loop for a while, but it could be broken off into another direction at one point. I suppose that one might wonder why the light warriors took multiple attempts to fix the time loop, and why they didn't do the same thing in every case. Perhaps they merely did both, and there was also a different timeline and reality created for each possible choice. Plus in the alternate timeline, there would be all new branches into tracks that you might not even see the original timeline swerve off into.

...but then maybe I'm nuts and it could all be wrong. It is a theory after all. wacko.gif
Post #60281
Top
Posted: 22nd September 2004 17:43

*
Lunarian
Posts: 1,253

Joined: 27/2/2004

Awards:
Member of more than ten years. Member of more than five years. 
Bravo Mu....Bravo...*slowly claps ominously and emerges from the shadows.

But you failed to explain the existence of the Sky Warriors.

--------------------
"That Light has bestowed upon me the greatest black magic!"
Post #60295
Top
Posted: 22nd September 2004 19:04

*
SOLDIER
Posts: 709

Joined: 28/8/2004

Awards:
Member of more than five years. 
You never asked that ^^ Only about the time problem. It never explained them as anything more than an advanced civilisation that had evolved faster than the other nations, then harnessed the power of the wind crystal to power their sky fortress as far as I know. After that Tiamat took over the fortress, kicked out the people there, and took over the controls as it were. Advanced people as they were they worked out were all the evil energy was coming from, but the power of the black crystal through Chaos turned them into bats.

--------------------
The Arcana are the means by which ALL is revealed.
Post #60305
Top
Posted: 23rd September 2004 00:15
*
Black Mage
Posts: 182

Joined: 25/1/2002

Awards:
Member of more than ten years. Member of more than five years. 
My take on the story is that the light warriors never actually killed anybody in the present. the fiends all warped back in time before you would've had a chance to kill them. then they healed up and got stronger. Thats what happened to garland too.

I didnt read all the posts above mine, so excuse me if someone has already posted an opinion same as mine.

*Edit*: Alright, so I read mu's, and his explanation seems to be more in depth and reasonable than mine thumbup.gif

This post has been edited by SECProto on 23rd September 2004 00:18
Post #60327
Top
0 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members: