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Sepiroth's biography claims that the 2 hypotheses are that it's a Sepiroth clone or a shadow of Sepiroth, doesn't Coud say in north crater (after defeating Jenova-DEATH) that it's been Jenova they've been following all along, this is esentially backed up by "Sepiroth's" habit of flying up as Sepiroth and Jenova coming down, and the idea that it's a clone/s is/are responsible is unlikely as the clones are systematically killed by "Sepiroth" in north crater. Finally, Jenova's huge, how could Sepiroth carry Jenova without you being able to see it (yes I have realised that so is the buster sword, and Midgar, but still...)?

Perhaps Jenova was awakened by it's proximity to Aeris, a member of the hated Cetra that defeated and imrisoned it.

Sorry for not boxing it, but first time I tried it (on a completely different topic), my page long list dissapeared.

This post has been edited by Scientist on 21st December 2006 22:47

SPOILERS GALORE

Jenova isn't all that big to begin with. In the FMV at Nibelheim we see that she's only the size of a normal woman. Then even smaller without a head... The Jenovas we fight are just mutations of her cells I believe - not the original. And Sephiroth doesn't carry her much. The blood in the Shinra building suggests that he carried her up to the President - killing everyone as he went - and then flew off with her after. There is no other way for them to go without meeting Cloud etc. I think he takes her to the Northern Crater where the "wound" is in the planet.

I like the idea that Jenova frees herself, but I'm sticking to the Sephiroth rescue point of view.

EDIT FOR BELOW: I always thought it was a sort of spirit-Sephiroth who appeared around the planet. Other times include Aeris' death, the Shinra Mansion cellar and the cargo ship. The Masamune is found in the President at the top floor and also kills Aeris. Since Cloud says that only Sephiroth can use the sword that implies he was present both these times. I suppose a clone could wield it too... Yet in AC none of the clones use it. I couldn't say either way for definite, but I've always gone with this.

I'm certain it was Jenova's body without the head that was taken. We see it in the containment tank. The head must've been removed earlier.

And CStrife I wouldn't have thought Jenova would use a sword, or appear as Sephiroth.

This post has been edited by sweetdude on 21st December 2006 20:18

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

Quote (sweetdude @ 21st December 2006 16:34)

Jenova isn't all that big to begin with. In the FMV at Nibelheim we see that she's only the size of a normal woman. Then even smaller without a head... The Jenovas we fight are just mutations of her cells I believe - not the original. And Sephiroth doesn't carry her much. The blood in the Shinra building suggests that he carried her up to the President - killing everyone as he went - and then flew off with her after.

A "Sephiroth Clone" is the one who actually took Jenova (actually only Jenova's head, right?)

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The real Sephiroth was enclosed in the materia crystal in the northern crater at this time. There seems to be a lot of disagreement about what the "Sephiroth Clones" are: they all involve Jenova's cells, but since it was actually the real Sephiroth manipulating the clones from his materia cocoon it wasn't Jenova freeing herself.

This post has been edited by BDZ on 21st December 2006 19:07

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Status:
FF6 -- Finished! Yeah!
FF7 -- Finished (easily, and without KOtR)
FF8 -- End of Disc 3
Secret of Evermore--Leveling up for Salabog

"Go sit over there. Put your seatbelt on."--Squall

Quote

Jenova isn't all that big to begin with. In the FMV at Nibelheim we see that she's only the size of a normal woman. Then even smaller without a head... The Jenovas we fight are just mutations of her cells I believe - not the original. And Sephiroth doesn't carry her much. The blood in the Shinra building suggests that he carried her up to the President - killing everyone as he went - and then flew off with her after. There is no other way for them to go without meeting Cloud etc. I think he takes her to the Northern Crater where the "wound" is in the planet.

I like the idea that Jenova frees herself, but I'm sticking to the Sephiroth rescue point of view.

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It was all Jenova, Sephiroth "Clones" can't think for themselves or function properly at all.although clone really isn't the word for what they are.

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At that point in the game Sephiroth is still up in Northern Crater, the bigger question is who's pulling the strings Jenova or Sephiroth? VII like many other FF games has a final boss that you don't really ever come into contact with until the very end.

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"Have you ever seen a baby do that before?"

Quote (sweetdude @ 21st December 2006 16:34)

I'm certain it was Jenova's body without the head that was taken. We see it in the containment tank. The head must've been removed earlier.

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I prepared a big post to say why it was the head that was taken, but now I think sweetdude is right. But what I wonder is, in Advent Children, the Turks get Jenova's head out of the Northern Crater, that's what's in the box (At least according to Wikipedia.)

I think the "Sephiroth Spirit" thing is Jenova and/or the real Sephiroth manipulating Jenova cells. Not that you would get that from the game itself exactly...

Am I right or all washed up? All this talk makes me want to play the game through a second time. Oh boy.

This post has been edited by BDZ on 21st December 2006 21:24

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Status:
FF6 -- Finished! Yeah!
FF7 -- Finished (easily, and without KOtR)
FF8 -- End of Disc 3
Secret of Evermore--Leveling up for Salabog

"Go sit over there. Put your seatbelt on."--Squall

Quote (sweetdude @ 21st December 2006 17:34)

I'm certain it was Jenova's body without the head that was taken. We see it in the containment tank. The head must've been removed earlier.

Seph took the head away back in the Nibelheim incident.

Weren't those Sephiroths you meet on the way "images" projected by the originals will?

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"I fell off the mountain of words at around the 10,000ft mark. Tell my family...they owe me money." -Narratorway

"If you retort against this, so help me God I'll shove any part of your anatomy I can find into some other part. Figuratively, of course." - Josh

"We have more, can deliver tuesday." - Del S

Good old CoN

Shall we just agree to disagree?

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And CStrife I wouldn't have thought Jenova would use a sword, or appear as Sephiroth.

Jenova has the ability to change appearance, and probably create prop weapons, ever wonder how there was a masamune sticking out of president shinra, left behind, and you see Seph (jenova) always walking around with one.

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Shall we just agree to disagree?

I find that quite funny, since you're the one who opened the debate

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"Have you ever seen a baby do that before?"

Sephiroth is in control of Jenova ( canon). From the Northern Crater, the real Sephiroth controls her and uses her to do his misdeeds (and trying to get Cloud to go along with the Reunion, if I remember right). The Jenovas the party fights throughout the game are different body parts of Jenova, mutated (notice how 'Sephiroth' always leaves an arm or a leg behind?).

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OSonic Rave
/ \Last Arcanum
[ ]Strike Raid
XRagnarok

Quote (Zeromus_X @ 22nd December 2006 00:35)

Sephiroth is in control of Jenova ( canon). From the Northern Crater, the real Sephiroth controls her and uses her to do his misdeeds (and trying to get Cloud to go along with the Reunion, if I remember right).

Wow, shutting up now...

(BDZ devours FFVII Ultramania Omega Translation)

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Status:
FF6 -- Finished! Yeah!
FF7 -- Finished (easily, and without KOtR)
FF8 -- End of Disc 3
Secret of Evermore--Leveling up for Salabog

"Go sit over there. Put your seatbelt on."--Squall

How can I see it Zeromus? I've created a GameFAQ account (finally) and I thought that would fix it.

EDIT: Reading it now, thanks Tiddles.

This post has been edited by sweetdude on 22nd December 2006 14:10

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

The link doesn't work because it's not linked from within GameFAQs. You either need to copy and paste the link target into your browser, or visit the FAQ from GameFAQs' FF7 FAQs page.

The "It was Jenova's body the whole time" theory seems to be confirmed by that FAQ (assuming that the guide it translates is regarded as a canon source as it appears to be), so we should make this clear in Sephiroth's bio. Hence I'm moving this to Errors & Troubleshooting so we can at least get it onto "the list".

Thanks for pointing it out.

This post has been edited by Tiddles on 22nd December 2006 13:50

thanks tiddles

Another thing that has annoyed me since enix joined the party....

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What on earth was jenova still doing alive in the first place in advent children? i mean didnt we finish her off on the game? I'm Feeling like a barrett moment at the moment "i've been here from the beginning and none of this makes no damn sense" As with many other peoples theories i believe that The "sephiroth" we see in game, is just his consciousness bringing about the reunion in which he can be with his "mother" jenova. To be fully healed after falling in the mako reactor, ultimatly so he can summon meteor.Another thing that confuses me is that he can manipulate cloud, surely if as we see in the junon boat that sephiroth does not remember cloud how is this possible. again it falls back to the hojo experiments, which to me confuses me even more if cloud can remember when he was 15. again i feel like i'm going around in circles here.

but we can think up as many theories as we like, only square will know... bloody unfinished game

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"you did something I saw as your suicide: you refused to an admin WITHOUT GIVING ANY PROPER REASON.
"
SilverMaduin 4th September-2006
Heh Heh... Rap music....

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About 2000 years ago the planet was found by a group
known as the cetra, a lifeform called JENOVA come and fake that she was a cetra,
she was the one who was known as the Calmaity from the skies and killed all the
cetra around the world. she then gained ALOT OF POWER and so much that
it created what is known the WEAPON however she was defeated by a group of
cetra and left a wound on the planet 2000 years Professer Gast found jenova
and married Ilfania a cetra from the past. Professer Gast was killed by hojo
and hojo took over the Jenova Project and married a women called Lucrecia ,
Lucrecia had a baby and that baby was offered as the experiment to the
jenova project that baby name was.......SEPHIROTH!!!

yeah its possible.

This post has been edited by Ultima-Swordsmen on 15th February 2007 16:08

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...Wasnt it implied that Vincent is Sephiroth's father....?

Quote (Final Fantasy Guru @ 23rd March 2007 15:19)

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...Wasnt it implied that Vincent is Sephiroth's father....?

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I think it was kind of implied that Hojo was Sephiroth's father considering he said it in game and everything

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"We're not tools of the government or anyone else. Fighting... fighting was the only thing I was ever good at, but at least I always fought for what I believed in." - Frank Yeager (a.k.a. Grey Fox)

Quote (FallingHeart @ 23rd March 2007 23:29)

Quote (Final Fantasy Guru @ 23rd March 2007 15:19)

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...Wasnt it implied that Vincent is Sephiroth's father....?

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I think it was kind of implied that Hojo was Sephiroth's father considering he said it in game and everything

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well, hojo being Arrogant.... I believe it Implied that he SAID what he thought........ Since when is everything Hojo says right...?

Fact is, Vincent had sex with her first, then Hojo had a go......that's a STRONGLY implied fact..... which I do believe could set either men as the true father....

I don't think the game ever really mentioned Vincent getting around the bases with Lucrecia. I'm pretty sure she didn't have the same feelings.

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If you've been mod-o-fied,
It's an illusion, and you're in-between.
Don't you be tarot-fied,
It's just alot of nothing, so what can it mean?
~Frank Zappa

Sins exist only for people who are on the Way or approaching the Way

Quote (MogMaster @ 24th March 2007 01:23)

I don't think the game ever really mentioned Vincent getting around the bases with Lucrecia. I'm pretty sure she didn't have the same feelings.

hmmmm...well... id like to have a look at all the dialog between the two.... something worth taking a 2nd look at..

Quote (Final Fantasy Guru @ 23rd March 2007 15:19)

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well, hojo being Arrogant.... I believe it Implied that he SAID what he thought........ Since when is everything Hojo says right...?

Fact is, Vincent had sex with her first, then Hojo had a go......that's a STRONGLY implied fact..... which I do believe could set either men as the true father.... 

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What makes you say that? That's never implied in FF7... the only thing implied is that Vincent and Lucrecia were in love or at the least had strong feelings for each other. What is said, is that Hojo is the father, when you fight him (which does imply that Hojo had sex with Lucrecia)... and the characters (including Vincent) were disgusted that he would manipulate his own son's life to the degree he had (Sephiroth). Vincent never claimed or acknowledged the possibility that Sephiroth could be his son...

Quote

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What on earth was jenova still doing alive in the first place in advent children? i mean didnt we finish her off on the game? I'm Feeling like a barrett moment at the moment "i've been here from the beginning and none of this makes no damn sense" As with many other peoples theories i believe that The "sephiroth" we see in game, is just his consciousness bringing about the reunion in which he can be with his "mother" jenova. To be fully healed after falling in the mako reactor, ultimatly so he can summon meteor.Another thing that confuses me is that he can manipulate cloud, surely if as we see in the junon boat that sephiroth does not remember cloud how is this possible. again it falls back to the hojo experiments, which to me confuses me even more if cloud can remember when he was 15. again i feel like i'm going around in circles here.

For the latter of the questions...

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Although Sephiroth’s physical body was badly damaged, he had a strong enough will (partly because of his infusion with JENOVA cells) to prevent himself from becoming part of the Lifestream. Shinra’s ultimate success story would soon become their ultimate nightmare, as Sephiroth’s body was transported to the Northern Crater through the Lifestream and sealed in a Mako chrysalis. His psyche, powerful enough to actually coalesce into physical form, began to travel the land, searching for his “mother,” JENOVA. This is why Sephiroth can fly and appear transparent and almost ten times normal size at some points in the game. He can also travel through the ground at points as well. His true body is in the Northern Crater; his mind was so strong that he can move around mentally in a physical state he fashioned for himself to retrieve the Black Materia and summon Meteor."

That's the best theory I've read about Sephiroth's appearances outside the Northern Crater (it's not mine, third party ff site's theory). It's very believable considering the final battle between Cloud and Sephiroth.

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"Space for Rent"

Okay FF Guru, this is Square talking (FFVII Ultimania Omega) not me:

About Hojo:

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Hojo-
Places of appearance: Shin-Ra headquarters and various other places

Void of good sense and humanity, he is a typical mad scientist. As a novice,
he participated in the Jenova Project with Gast, an expert, but after he
[Gast] left, direction of the project fell to him [Hojo]. Gast and
collaborative research had bore the SOLDIERs, but 5 years ago, he [Hojo] began
the Sephiroth Clones experiment on his own. Company employees keep watch over
its progress and keep him informed.

(Accompanying screenshot caption)
Steeped in an inferiority complex in regard to Professor Gast, he repeatedly
reacts with inhumane experiments. He's actually Sephiroth's father, but never
introduced himself [as such].

And about Lucrecia:

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***Lucrecia*** (Page 59)
Places of appearance: Lucrecia's cave, Nibelheim (Vincent's flashback)

A woman who worked in the Shin-Ra Company's Science Department. As a member of
the Jenova Project, she served as assistant to professor Gast. She was
beautiful and intelligent, but after stepping on the road to being Hojo's
lover, she would end up offering the body of her own unborn child for
experimentation. The child who was given Jenova cells -- Sephiroth was born;
and with the effects of the experiment causing irregularities in her own body,
she removed herself from the public eye. She was the woman who was the object
of Vincent's yearning, and the reason he began to hold himself accountable of
"sin."

How's that?

This post has been edited by BDZ on 24th March 2007 03:13

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Status:
FF6 -- Finished! Yeah!
FF7 -- Finished (easily, and without KOtR)
FF8 -- End of Disc 3
Secret of Evermore--Leveling up for Salabog

"Go sit over there. Put your seatbelt on."--Squall