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I have a very hard question for you, what is best, the Ragnarok Esper or the Ragnarok Sword??
Tell me something I can't choose between them...

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When the Darkness rules the World I'll be in the Quetzalma Tower to rule the entire world...

Esper, it gives the spell Ultima

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Lets see, connect the blue wire to the ...wait, why is it tick*boom*

The Sword. You can bet it at the arena for Illumina (the strongest weapon in the game game, next to Atma Weapon), and you can learn Ultima by using the Paladin Shield. By taking the sword, you can not only get the strongest spell in the game, but the second-strongest weapon, too.

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~ Aurora, exhale bloody air! Dark Holy! ~

Hmm, this is tough. If your really impatient to learn ultima, then you can get the ragnarok esper. Or you could get the ragnarok sword and bet it for the illumina and you can learn ultima from the paladin shield.

Now, although the Illumina is the strongest sword in the game, there is another sword that comes very close. IF you use the Atma weapon through out the game from the point where you get it, it will be neaarly as powerful as the illumina, except for the vigor and stat bonuses. The Ragnarok esper not only teaches ultima, but also morphs enemies into useful items.


Well, finishing off, I would always go for the esper every time. But, I would still get the paladin shield.

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Ff7 current game progress:Just finished the underwater reactor, on to rocket town!

Quote

IF you use the Atma weapon through out the game from the point where you get it, it will be nearly as powerful as the illumina, except for the vigor and stat bonuses.

Actually, the Atma Weapon is stronger by the end. No question. The reason? It pierces defense, hits for 9999 damage evey hit (as long as you're around level 90, and with a decent amount of hp remaining), and things like Offering don't reduce its damage!

This post has been edited by Random Person on 4th June 2005 17:47

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~ Aurora, exhale bloody air! Dark Holy! ~

true, but Illumina also casts Pearl for up to 9999 along with the standard 9999 which equals 19998! However it doesnt always cast Pearl and it also drains your MP to crit every swing.

Here are the pros of Illumina and Atma Weapon:

Atma: Piercing and grows in power as you gain levels. Damage is nice and constant for higher levels.

Illumina: Auto-Crit and impressive stat bonuses. May cast pearl for an additional 9999 damage, but not always.

Whatever you choose is completly your decision. If you are not willing to take a long time uncursing the shield to earn Ultima, then take the esper. However if you do want to take that course as well as risking your one chance of getting Illimuna on the collsuem (bah spelling) then go ahead and take the sword.

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Its not denial. I'm just very selective about the reality i accept. ~Calvin and Hobbes

Yah, i dont post much if you havent noticed. I'm not used to large fourms so i usally lurk and post every now and then..

Yeah, thanks but it's a hard choice between morph enemies and a great sword, isn't it??

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When the Darkness rules the World I'll be in the Quetzalma Tower to rule the entire world...

Not really. I use magic and skills way more than weapon anyways.

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Ff7 current game progress:Just finished the underwater reactor, on to rocket town!

I thought the Ragnarok sword taught Ultima as well.

Nah, it doesn't.

As for what's better, I'd go with the sword. Using MP for criticals isn't massively terrible, especially if you devote that character to attacking, and the Esper isn't all that great. Besides looking cool, all it can do is morph things into usually useless items, as you can learn ultima elsewhere, be it naturally with Terra, or using the Paladin Shield.

Quote (Mimic @ 5th June 2005 14:53)

all it can do is morph things into usually useless items

Such as all imp equipment, Marvel Shoes, Megalixirs, Genji Gloves, Exp. Eggs, and Ribbon. Nobody uses those anyways.

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Quote (Silverlance @ 5th June 2005 16:40)

Such as all imp equipment, Marvel Shoes, Megalixirs, Genji Gloves, Exp. Eggs, and Ribbon. Nobody uses those anyways.

Do I sense a hint of sarcasm?

This topic goes into a lot of detail on another thread: http://www.cavesofnarshe.com/forums/ipb/in...?showtopic=2225

This post has been edited by Racthoh on 5th June 2005 22:04

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This is my world: (Got my second chapter up, 3rd Chapter about 80% complete)
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Quote ("Ramdom Person@4th June 2005 12:47)

Actually, the Atma Weapon is stronger by the end. No question. The reason? It pierces defense, hits for 9999 damage evey hit (as long as you're around level 90, and with a decent amount of hp remaining), and things like Offering don't reduce its damage!

You're wrong, offering doesreduces its attack power by half...you must have a high level and vigor, if you want 9999 dmg with the offering equipped...really, it just happen that your sword became so powerful, that takes more than 19998 dmg per hit. (like mine ) , when I reached 9999 damage with the Atma Weapon ( around LV 60, vigor 50 ) offering reduced its attack power by half ( 5000-5500 per hit), even the back row cut its attack power by half.

on the topic: Ragnarok is far better than Ragnarok esper, Ragnarok is a powerful sword that cast ramdomly Flare...and increase status and evasion as well. Illumina is better, except its cast Pearl ( or Holy..) and its pearl elemental, but its very powerful!, the esper is not that worth to get , but you can have Safety bits, thornlets, Relic rings, etc. Just summon Ragnarok, and if its fail..let Gogo mimic ( actually you can Mimic your last action too, so can summon Ragnarok again, and again, and again... You can get good things..but believe me Ragnarok and Illumina are better.

This post has been edited by Moglv99 on 6th June 2005 00:38

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"Its no cheating if you don't get caught"

Quote (Racthoh @ 5th June 2005 17:03)

Quote (Silverlance @ 5th June 2005 16:40)

Such as all imp equipment, Marvel Shoes, Megalixirs, Genji Gloves, Exp. Eggs, and Ribbon. Nobody uses those anyways.

Do I sense a hint of sarcasm?[/URL]

What, me? Neveeer...

But in all seriousness, the ability to max out the above items with the esper makes it that much more valuable.

Is a sword better than marvel shoes/ribbons/genji gloves for everyone and unlimited megalixirs? Hardly. Who cares how much damage you do when you can't be killed? ;P

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

It's all really a matter of preference.

Some people will take the sword for the sake a powerful weapon, and either not bother with Ultima, or get the Paladin shield, or, people will not bother with the sword, and go with Ultima, and there's always people who will get half of their stuff by using things like Morph.

This is an old debate, and I can remember it for almost as long as I've known about FFVI. I'm just glad everyone is taking this so wel, and, as far as I can see, not yelluing at each other and telling everyone they're wrong(though some well made comments and strong opinions have been voiced). I hate it when that happens over stuff like this.

And, regarding the Offering, even if it does lower the attack, it still does more damage than it would otherwise, and, given the way I play (Maxing out Locke's vigor and HP, giving him the Atma Weapon, Offering, genji Glove, and something else to hold on to) I can say that I have never found a reason not to utulize the Offering.

Personally, I go with the Esper; I'd rather have everyone with Ultima than one character with one sword.

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Fierce Legends Software Battle Designer
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I got the Esper my first time through the game (many years ago ) but every other time I'd play through I'd go with the sword. Sometimes I'll trade it for Illumina, sometimes I won't. Breaking the curse on the Cursed Shield is a bitch and tedious but well worth it since it turns into the Paladin Shield- one of the best in the game.

On another note- I like to give Locke the Atma Weapon and Valliant Knife (with a Genji Glove, of corse) since, no matter what his HP is looking like, he'll deal some damage.

Here is my feeble attempt to kill the debate. The Ragnarok Esper is a waste and worthless. Now I will say one thing on the contrary. If you are playing for your first time through this game, get the esper, it's easier that way, if not, I think anyone should know, its worthless. You can get anything you want by stealing and doing colloseum runs. I think the only thing hard to get would be an economizer which you'd have to give up the Gem Box for (no way) or win it from a Brachosaur. Either way, the next point is this, even if you don't use "Fight" The sword, after you get the Illumina that is, is uber in its rights on what it offers you, paired with the right gear, you can't die, we'll, it'll be darn hard to kill you. Point is, there is nothing you can't get with the Esper, EXCEPT the Ragnarok and Illumina sword, taking the sword you can still get all the gear you need and have a gnarly weapon to boot.

You want Ultima? Get the Pally Shield, its worth it, for all those who never uncurse it, do it now!

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but...I don't think I am...

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"Leave us. The dog eats strangers." -Shadow

Nah, you're right for the most part, except for one thing. The Sword is ONLY better if you get the Paladin Shield, if you don't, the Esper is much better, 'cause Ultima makes the game much easier. And a lot of people don't have the patience to uncurse it. But if you do, then yeah, the sword is better.

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The island bathes in the sun's bright rays
Distant hills wear a shroud of grey
A lonely breeze whispers in the trees
Sole witness to history

ICO-You were there-

The guy who started off his opinion by recognizing that it's a matter of personal preference gets my vote. The people who insulted the intelligence of everyone who disagrees with them don't.

I usually take the sword. Silverlance points out that Metamorph isn't useless, but I find that I prefer to have the sword (and swap it for Illumina) than an added way of getting some of those items. The fact that Ultima can be learned from the Paladin shield is really what makes my decision.

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Veni, vidi, dormivi.

Thanks for the support, Karasuman. (I guess you were addressing me.)

Although I may be more or less reitterating my opinion, its just whatever you want to do, and with the Paladin Shield, thats a matter of time. If it didn't take so much time, I'd do it, and maybe get the Ragnarok Sword. I never Morph anything, whenever I've used it, its been for fun.

And, regarding the Valiant Knife, I did that for awhile, but since I had Locke's HP at 9999, rather early, the lasttime I played it through, and maxed out his vigor (128, I think) it was more beneficial to have the Atma Weapon, and, something he threw, though which one exactly, i don;t remember, but thats getting off topic. Bleh.

Ragnarok. Yes, lets talk about that some more now...

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Fierce Legends Software Battle Designer
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Please post in our forums; we are in need of help and input as we develop the Final Fantasy VI Prequel.

I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers...Maybe what I said that the esper was worthless came off to harsh...The only thing I find is that the pros and cons of the sword are way better than the pros and cons of the esper, just given my expeirence with the matter.

I say if you're a hardcore Gau user (me) then uncursing the shield is easy and you'll get it done in no time. Ribbon on and go to work in the veldt. You'll have an awesome sheild and a lot of rages done by the time your work is finished.

Just to say, my Terra has a magic power of 142, that is with Illumina. Level 1 spells are enough to take care of most things, paired with a gem box, its quite fun

Here is the most simple way I can think to do this...Play the game twice, both ways and choose yourself...This most recent time through I got the sword. And for me, it worked so much better.

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"Leave us. The dog eats strangers." -Shadow

Yeah, a problem with forums is omeone's enthusiasm can come off as being harsh, as there is only text to judge from.

And, I never use Gau; I leave him and umaro on the Airship when I go into Kefka's Tower.

Whatever floats your boat.

This post has been edited by Janus Zanretsuken on 16th June 2005 09:44

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Fierce Legends Software Battle Designer
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Please post in our forums; we are in need of help and input as we develop the Final Fantasy VI Prequel.

Hmmm... i'm not sure what you should do. It is true that the sword is better. but i never got the esper and i think you well be able to beat the game just fine without the sword.

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"You know that feeling you get when you're on a merry go 'round, and you want to jump off to make the spinning stop, but you know it'll suck when you land? I feel like that all the time"- Keno

"I stab my girl until I fall down"
-Yukari
Do you like Horny Bunnies?

I also agree with Janus - it all boils down to personal preference. There's no bad pick between the two when forming your own strategy.

I, for one, have never gone with the Esper. Sure Metamorph bags you some great items and relics to boost your defense/skills/exp./etc. to the point of invulnerability, but by the time I've beefed up my characters with what I've got they're pretty much indestructible as it is. No need to overkill.

I always uncurse the Paladin Shield fairly quickly, or so it seems. I just slap it on Locke along with a Ribbon and have him suffer for a while as I complete the sidequests. Once it's uncursed, everyone (or at least my never-changing "ultimate" party of Terra, Locke, Celes and Shadow) makes their way to the Maranda desert and swaps it around every ten or so battles until they all learn Ultima. Likewise, I always wager the Ragnarok for the Illumina, which Terra gets along with Atma Weapon (which I replace with the Excalibur later on, giving Atma to either Celes or Locke) and the Genji Glove, 'cause that setup paired with Morph is just great. Yeah, so I said there's no reason for defensive overkill in my opinion, but doing it offensively is just plain fun!

Also, having one or two super-powered characters is good enough for me. By taking the Esper and using Metamorph, I'd just ruin it for myself by making everyone equally godlike, and that just ain't my style. Plus I'd have an excess of items/relics I'd never use (i.e, only Shadow's allowed to equip Marvel Shoes in my game, only Terra gets a Genji Glove, only Celes wears a Ribbon [outside of Locke's uncursing], etc. I like to keep everyone as independantly equipped as possible 'cause I'm strange like that). Maybe I'll get the Esper in a future playthrough, but it'd just be to say I did.

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Words of Wisdom:

If something can go wrong, it will.

If anything simply cannot go wrong, it will anyway.

If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong. - Murphy’s Law

Boing! Zoom! - Mr. Saturn

Yeah; we all have our own different styles. I tend to use alot of brute force and heavy damaging attacks, so, given my style, its more beneficial to have everyone with Ultima than one person with a sword. I realize that I could have the sword AND everyone with Ultima with the Paladin Shield, but, (1) I'm not willing to put up the time to uncurse teh shield, (2) frankly, having an extra powerful sword won't make that much difference, and, (3) I don't know how to uncurse the shield; never done it before, I just know it takes a long time.

And, as for my style, Terra has the Gem Box and Economizer, whipping out 2 ultimas each turn, and Locke has the Genji Glove and offering.

Oh well.

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Please post in our forums; we are in need of help and input as we develop the Final Fantasy VI Prequel.

To Janus, I'm over the debate, but one thing I do want to tell you. Take some time and uncurse the shield, it's so great you don't understand, not just for the ultima either. Whoever gets it basically is god, when paired with the right gear. Shadow has it for me and I can't remember the last time he died. Esper or sword, who cares, Cursed sheild or paladin shield. Get that darned shield, now!!! You'll love it.

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"Leave us. The dog eats strangers." -Shadow

Well, i would get the shield, but im just too damn lazy.
No theres no way im going to sit there doing that. Even with the turbo on my emulator going fast as a b*tch. Oh well, i might uncurse the shield anyways, but still get the esper. Oh great, now you people got me all confused!

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Ff7 current game progress:Just finished the underwater reactor, on to rocket town!

Just go to the Solitaire Island to fight fast battles to break the curse. Simple as that.

I just haven't bothered to get it, thats my thing, and if I think I were to, I'd take me quite a while, since I'd probably just spend a half an hour fighting with it.

Well, its summer, and I could probably find some time to do that. I'll look into getting it taken care of.

Will do, Shrouded one, evenm if it will take quite awhile.

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Fierce Legends Software Battle Designer
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Please post in our forums; we are in need of help and input as we develop the Final Fantasy VI Prequel.

I have 1 question, if I use the Cursed Shield on Terra and then put the Cursed Shield in another character will I have to do the battles from the begining or the number of battles I fighted with it equiped on Terra stay??

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When the Darkness rules the World I'll be in the Quetzalma Tower to rule the entire world...