Track this topic | Email this topic | Print this topic

Quote (BlitzSage @ 6th March 2014 23:50)

Quote (alasta @ 6th March 2014 21:55)

It's interesting that no one loved the battles, despite being like 1/3 of the game.

. . . though the battles are probably a large portion of the game, in terms of sheer length, it may not be the case that they were the most significant part of the game, which I think would be a combination of the story (and the story's presentation), the atmosphere, the characters, and the music all flowing together.

The way I think about the battles now is that they were very good. I've discussed in other forum topics that they were perfectly suited for grinding, and they could be very enjoyable, but they weren't the star of the show. They were an excellent complement, but the battles aren't the portion of FFVI that people remember it for.

I disagree. I have experimented with more playing styles in FF6 than in any other game. I have tried pure fighting, pure magic, pure special abilities, and dozens of combinations; and yet I still cannot decide on a single favorite. I have about five different strategies between which I alternate depending on my characters' current statuses, which items I have in bulk, how many magic points I have at that particular moment, which spells everyone has learned, and my available equipment options. I generally prefer to stick with one strategy for a given battle, but I have on many occasions switched playing styles and sometimes even weapons and shields mid-battle. Final Fantasy VI has one of the most flexible and interesting battle systems of any game I have ever played.

This post has been edited by RavenLalonde on 14th March 2014 02:04

Well, obviously it's hard to disagree with you, because from my perspective FFVI is the best game I've ever played. I could certainly see a great argument for the greatness of its battle system. There were a couple points that I was trying to get at when I said that it wasn't the star of the show, meaning the main feature of the game. First, when I said grinding, I didn't mean to imply I was calling it a simple or repetitive system. What I meant was actually many of the things you mentioned about the customizability and the strategy, and added to that the battles were often quick and the controls were accessible. So, for me, it made the battle system engaging and comfortable at the same time.

However, as much as I love FFVI's battle system, I've got to admit that there weren't many individual moments where the battle system was center stage. Even some of the more memorable battles were just as much about presentation as they were about technical design. In other words, I feel that, while the battle system is great, the elements I mentioned were always the primary draw for me. When people think about the game, they think of things like the Opera scene, Dancing Mad, Terra and Celes, Kefka at Doma, etc.

Meanwhile, in Chrono Trigger, there are moments where the battle system was the main reason for the moment being great. The final battle in Chrono Trigger was just excellent. It was very challenging, but that was what made it so much fun.

--------------------

Praise Be To Helix!

The best question (even though I picked what I liked best) is what DON'T I like about the game?

The battle system is simple, fast, and clean.

The Esper system allows for a certain amount of freedom and customization.

The characters are incomplete, but complete enough for you to fill in the details with your own imagination.

The setting is AWESOME. Steam fantasy is what I like to call it (shameless fanfic plug, sorry).

The story? It's very unique. It stars an evil empire versus a group of underdogs, but also rounds the group out with good people as well.

FFVI is my favorite of the series, and, in my opinion, the pinnacle of the series. VII was good, but VI was the peak.

--------------------

"So, are you a fan of the Fett?"

"Nah, I'm more of a Star Wars guy."

Quote (BlitzSage @ 13th March 2014 23:31)

. . . as much as I love FFVI's battle system, I've got to admit that there weren't many individual moments where the battle system was center stage. Even some of the more memorable battles were just as much about presentation as they were about technical design. In other words, I feel that, while the battle system is great, the elements I mentioned were always the primary draw for me. When people think about the game, they think of things like the Opera scene, Dancing Mad, Terra and Celes, Kefka at Doma, etc.

Meanwhile, in Chrono Trigger, there are moments where the battle system was the main reason for the moment being great. The final battle in Chrono Trigger was just excellent. It was very challenging, but that was what made it so much fun.

Ah, I understand. Really my only point of disagreement is that the battle system is what I remember it for. When I think of Chrono Trigger, I think of the Compass of Time (as I call it; I do not remember if that is its actual name), and Lucca's machines, and the Frog/Magus dynamic; but the battle system was just a nice addition. But maybe that is just me. (This is probably because I grind so much more in FF6 than in CT.)

I love everything about Final Fantasy 6, the characters, the story, just everything.

The story wins it for me though, having a insane clown as the bad guy was a stroke of genius. I love the inclusion of espers in the game, they are such a big part of it whearas in most FF games, they are rarely mention apart from fighting them and are just huge damage dealers. But in this game they were a crucial part in game.

I love most of the characters, but I am still dissapointed at how undeveloped some of the characters are, like shadow, and Gau.

Batt;e system is alway great, i like the new IOS battles.

THE MUSIC IS AWESOME

--------------------

Excuse me? Would you mind not talking while I'm interupting?

Quote (RavenLalonde @ 14th March 2014 22:44)

Ah, I understand. Really my only point of disagreement is that the battle system is what I remember it for. When I think of Chrono Trigger, I think of the Compass of Time (as I call it; I do not remember if that is its actual name), and Lucca's machines, and the Frog/Magus dynamic; but the battle system was just a nice addition. But maybe that is just me. (This is probably because I grind so much more in FF6 than in CT.)

I grind more in FF6 too. I like CT for its story too, though for slightly different reasons.

You also may be talking about Corridors of Time?

I have written so many times about why I love FF6's story so much that even I'm bored with it! So, I can imagine how other people feel. It's not just about how clear and how well told the story is, it's how it's presented. From start to finish, it is structured as if it was all a play (i.e., the beginning prologue, end credits, the often melodramatic "acting" from the characters). I could go on and on, but the point is that is does everything so well and in a grandiose, yet perfectly balanced way.

Quote (HolyCeles)

I love most of the characters, but I am still dissapointed at how undeveloped some of the characters are, like shadow, and Gau.

Well, I mostly disagree with that. I mean, compared to the main characters they didn't have as much time. However, they weren't one-dimensional characters. They fair fairly well rounded.

Of course, you've also got to think that we're talking about two of 12 main playable characters, almost all of which were very well developed, not to mention that several NPCs were highly developed also.

This is another testament to how well the story is told. Imagine trying to keep a story on track while devoting enough time to each of those characters... and then basically pulling it off. That's what I mean when I say that it's one of the best examples of video game storytelling ever (and my personal favorite).

But then again, I rarely play games for difficulty. I mostly play for story. That's even true for games like Bioshock and Mass Effect. I have just as much fun when I turn down the difficulty and just experience what the game has to offer.



--------------------

Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (BlitzSage @ 15th March 2014 23:45)

You also may be talking about Corridors of Time?

No, that big C that you use when you travel through time. I call it a compass, because it is round and you use it to determine your direction. Also because it is a C.

Quote (BlitzSage @ 15th March 2014 23:45)

Quote (HolyCeles)

I love most of the characters, but I am still dissapointed at how undeveloped some of the characters are, like shadow, and Gau.

Well, I mostly disagree with that. I mean, compared to the main characters they didn't have as much time. However, they weren't one-dimensional characters. They fair fairly well rounded.

Of course, you've also got to think that we're talking about two of 12 main playable characters, almost all of which were very well developed, not to mention that several NPCs were highly developed also.

This is another testament to how well the story is told. Imagine trying to keep a story on track while devoting enough time to each of those characters... and then basically pulling it off. That's what I mean when I say that it's one of the best examples of video game storytelling ever (and my personal favorite).

Well put, sir. Their stories get a bit more fleshed out if you do a few sidequests, too. For example, if you get Gau face-to-face with his father; you get a more detailed, if twisted, account of Gau's birth. Shadow's dreams are even more dodgy than Gau's insane father's tale, but still shed some light on his past. There are so many characters, and yet they are so realistic and even relatable. Oh man, I just love this game.

Quote (RavenLalonde @ 16th March 2014 10:58)

Well put, sir.  Their stories get a bit more fleshed out if you do a few sidequests, too.  For example, if you get Gau face-to-face with his father; you get a more detailed, if twisted, account of Gau's birth.  Shadow's dreams are even more dodgy than Gau's insane father's tale, but still shed some light on his past.  There are so many characters, and yet they are so realistic and even relatable.  Oh man, I just love this game.

Well thank you madam!

Yes, I agree, the sidequests do a great deal, but it's also the digressions. Because the main story is simple to understand and keep up with, it allows them to give time to the individual characters' stories. Like when the story splits into the three scenarios. Locke/Celes and Sabin/Cyan/Gau only contribute a small amount to the main story. So, they spend that time to develop those characters instead. In a way, whether people choose the story or the characters doesn't necessarily matter, because they both complement each other.

Quote

No, that big C that you use when you travel through time. I call it a compass, because it is round and you use it to determine your direction. Also because it is a C.

Oh, do you mean the Time Gauge on the Epoch?

This post has been edited by BlitzSage on 16th March 2014 19:42

--------------------

Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (BlitzSage @ 16th March 2014 14:39)

Quote

No, that big C that you use when you travel through time. I call it a compass, because it is round and you use it to determine your direction. Also because it is a C.

Oh, do you mean the Time Gauge on the Epoch?

Yes, that!

...

I ran out of relevant things to add to this thread.

ff6 is gud I likes it

It was the NPCs!!! Think about Lola and her letters, the old man who gives you Ragnorak, and all of the amazing townspeople. And they weren't forced side-quests like modern games, they were unique plotlines that served their own purpose.

I'm serious, it was the NPCs that made FFVI better than any game before or since. I'm not trying to advertise or whatever, but that's why I wrote this song. I won't hijack this thread, but if you want to hear my song about NPCs, I put it in the "My Creations" forum: http://www.cavesofnarshe.com/forums/ipb/in...showtopic=16698

But seriously, has there ever been a game with better townspeople?

The author of "Final Fantasy VI: Reversing the Design" dedicates an entire page to dissecting the uniqueness and integral brilliance of the NPCs in the game.

--------------------

I fear my heart and fear my soul
Life goes on, it surely will,
Without me and I wonder:
Will I ever see light again?

Life goes on...

I don't think I could choose just one thing, but that's because so many disparate elements work together to create the memorable whole.

The first for me is the story. As others have pointed out, the game's plot is singularly ambitious. It takes risks few other games before or since have been willing to take. After all, consider the game's opening act.

In most console RPGs up to this point (or at least the ones I'd played as of the fall of '94), it's typically the hero who experiences something like having his or her town burned down or attacked, and this prompts the heroic quest.

But in VI, you burn the village. You attack the town. You are the evil catalyst.

And then, once you do get about the business of hero-ing, you fail. Again. And again. Everything you do seems to make things worse, and halfway through, you basically lose.

But the game's not over. The characters succumb to fear and loss, but they eventually gather themselves up and try again, and even then, they're not magically granted a restoration of their old world. They must live, as we all do, with the ashes and the broken things as well as the new life. The dead stay dead. The ruined stays ruined--but life continues.

Speaking of the characters, they're the thing that long ago sucked me in and never let go. A lot of the early JRPG heroes were these perfect, guileless, wholesome types. Good guys for the simple sake of being good.

But the characters in VI are all broken.

They're imperfect. They carry baggage and fears and flaws and hatreds. As a kid, I was merely awed by their humanness. As an adult, I experience them differently in that I've been, in some small ways, in their shoes as an adult. I've had my share of baggage, of failure, of moral conundrums and run-ins with the ogre's choice. To me that's why they age well: I've come to the place where they are, to some extent, and I don't find their experiences disingenuous. I recognize the landscape.

More than that, though, the theme that runs through all the character interactions in the game is that flawed though these heroes may be, they can make a way forward together. To do that, they have to accept themselves--and each other--as they are, flaws and all. In the end, they're little more than a dozen or so desperate, wounded people who refuse to quit trying--but that's enough (and, well, being able to cast Ultima sure doesn't hurt).

Finally, there's music.

Music has a certain power about it. Like visual stimuli, sound provokes an emotional response before we ever process it logically, and the music in VI tends to set the emotional tone and timbre of the scenes. It might not be as technically complex in the game, but it was composed with an ear for orchestration, as anyone who's attended or heard recordings of the various FF music concerts can likely attest. The 20020220 concert in Tokyo was my first live exposure, and the rush of emotion I got from Tina's Theme was a musical experience I may never be able to repeat, so powerful was my reaction.

Even now, many years after my first playthrough, it only takes a few strains of Tina's theme or the opening bars of the opera to deliver a potent dose of nostalgia and reduce me either to a grinning idiot with warm fuzzies in my chest or someone who has just discovered how much dirt is in the air and, subsequently, in her eyes.

And why? Because in that music is tied up for me, on a gut level, the very idea of the game, of its characters, of the story and the concepts it presents.

So all that to say that I don't believe you can reasonably divorce the one from the others--at least not without destroying the overall effect.

--------------------

This is a signature. You might think that there is something to it...but in fact it is just an ordinary signature.