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Caves of Narshe Forums > Final Fantasy VI > Kefka: really a "clown?"

Posted by: Stephen the Third 28th January 2004 21:12

Hello all. I began to explore this question in the thread about the game's shortcomings (hah!) and figured that it would best be its own topic of discussion.

Now, does it bother anyone else that Kefka is commonly referred to as and considered to be a "clown?" Now, while I can see the similarities and traits that would cause someone to assume that he is a clown.... but do you really believe that he is dressing / modeled after a clown?

I hardly believe that to be anywhere near conceivable. I always figured that Kefka was modelled to be a self-centered, borderline narcisisstic, and flamboyant villain. His makeup and gaudy clothing style, in my mind, are more similar to those of the spanish/french nobility of the 17th century than to those of a circus performer. After all, it was not uncommon for said nobles to wear makeup, and much of the period's fashion was very showy and colorful ESPECIALLY compared to their english counterparts.

Here is an image of french fashion from the 17th century:

user posted image

If that didn't work, here is a link: http://www.mayflowerfamilies.com/enquirer/images/PLATE63BX.JPG

Look at this image: the bright colors, the PLUMES (one of Kefka's defining features in his clothing), etc. are all somewhat similar to Kefka's own style.

Sorry, it just bothered me that so many people say he is just a "clown." While he may share some traits with clowns, i.e. his makeup and bright clothing, I think that the gaudy, flamboyant styles of past nobility are far more evident within his character.

What do you all think? Is Kefka really a clown? Is he modeled after 17th century french/spanish nobility? Are the 14 year old Sephiroth fans who love him for his gothic flair and disproportionately large sword who make fun of Kefka for being a "clown" oblivious to what the world's greatest villain is modeled after?

Posted by: i90east 28th January 2004 21:23

I don't think you understand all the definitions of a clown, which are:

A buffoon or jester who entertains by jokes, antics, and tricks in a circus, play, or other presentation.
One who jokes and plays tricks.
A coarse, rude, vulgar person; a boor.
A peasant; a rustic.

Posted by: Stephen the Third 28th January 2004 22:07

I'm sorry, but most of the people I have spoken to about this topic refer to him as a clown due to his appearance. If you recall, I was talking about what he was MODELLED after appearance-wise. Most people make the connections between make-up / colorful clothing with the physical appearance of a circus clown, which is what I am disputing. If I were arguing about his character, I think I would have spoken about his persona and not just his appearance. But anyway, in response to your post:

Kefka is not a buffoon / jester who entertains by jokes, antics, or tricks in a circus, play, or other presentation. Sure, he may be the source of comic relief in the game at times, but he is FAR from holding the role of a 'buffoon' / 'jester.' Besides, clowns purposefully do thinks to entertain while Kefka's are for his own enjoyment....

Kefka does joke at times, though maliciously. Furthermore, he doesn't really play tricks in the entertainment sense. His "tricks" are purely full of deception / hatred (the poisoning of Doma, anyone?).

Finally, as people don't really use the word "clown" to refer to a vulgar person anymore nor as a rude person, I hardly see why you would expect me the concede in this argument due to the third definition.... The fourth doesn't even apply.

Now, let's look at the "clown" as far as its role in Shakespearean drama. To quote article about the role of clowns in this type of drama, scenes with "clowns" (the word being used for its dramatic definition, not appearance) are present "to provide an alternate viewpoint by interrupting the main action of the play and playing specifically to that 'mingle mangle.'" These figures "used the oral/ physical tradition to create diversity and to provide a more complete understanding of the theme by employing a 'mingle mangle' of their own." (http://www.shu.ac.uk/emls/iemls/shaksper/files/ROLE%20CLOWN.txt)

Now, as the main antagonist of the game for the entire second half of the game and right hand man to the main antagonist throughout the entire first half, it is a little difficult to say that you could consider him a clown in the traditional, dramatic sense.

So, basically, the only definition of clown that pertains to a counterargument would be your third. Even that, though, is not effective. It says that a clown is "coarse, rude" and "vulgar;" it also says that this definition is can be simplified as a "boor."

Now, a Boor is: 1) A person with rude, clumsy manners and little refinement. 2) A peasant.

As a general for the Emperor Gesthal, one can hardly say Kefka is unrefined or a peasant. He is clearly a member of upper social tier.... just look at how he barks at the soldiers to clean sand off of his boots. So, the whole lack of delicacy or refinement suggested by "coarse" (I would say his plan to play along with, then eventually deceive and usurp power from Gesthal was pretty precise as he even knew about the protective aura of the statues when Gesthal tried to defend himself) and peasantry suggested by "boor" are hardly applicable. In fact, he scoffs at those who are below him, status-wise.

Now, after all this, I would hope that one would think twice before calling my favorite video game villain of all time a "clown." He is far too large a role to have such a lame label. What started out as a mere defense over his appearance has now turned into an actual debate over his role in the story.... I suppose I welcome this.

Posted by: Del S 28th January 2004 22:31

he looks like a clown. Most people dont know what people looked like in the 17th century . So, to many, hes a clown...

And my veiw? why its a plot. Many people are afraid of clowns, so, to instill fear, Kefka is dressed like one...
Hes smarter and more sinister than he looks...

Posted by: Elena99 28th January 2004 22:42

I'd lean more towards the "modeled after 17th century french nobility" theory. Someone was inspired by that, and warped it a bit in making Kefka.

Posted by: Stephen the Third 28th January 2004 22:52

Quote

he looks like a clown. Most people dont know what people looked like in the 17th century . So, to many, hes a clown...

Sadly, this is true, but this topic is hopefully going to educate some of those people which is why I provided a picture. Still, though, I must say that I am pretty surprised that many people do not know what type of clothing nobility wore in the past. I mean, even if they aren't completely accurate, most movies about that time period at least give you an IDEA of what people looked like back then. I suppose I can't expect everyone to be knowledgeable about this topic, though.

And besides, using incorrect terminology because you don't know the correct terminology is still incorrect, regardless of whether or not you have been educated about it or not.

Just because you do not know the exact origin/model of his appearance, or even his persona, doesn't mean you can just find a simple term that you know and apply it. ESPECIALLY if the term embodies traits and aspects of character that aren't even facets of said character. Thus, I am very opposed to people calling Kefka a "clown" as far as appearance, and even moreso to people calling him a "clown" as far as his demeanor / dramatic position within the story.

I mean, if anyone in the game is a clown, wouldn't you consider it to be Gogo? With his colorful clothing and a skill of mimicry, I always saw him as more of a clown figure as he really has no place in the story. Eh, Gogo isn't pertinent to this discussion really, so we shall leave him/her out of this.

Posted by: i90east 28th January 2004 22:52

Is it ok to call him a nut? Even one of the characters said he's missing a few screws. Kefka is an experiment gone bad. If he was refined, he would act more mature and reserved like Emperor Gesthal or even Sephiroth. Kefka may know how to get what he wants, but that hardly qualifies him as being refined. You may have never heard the word clown being used in the sense of someone being nutty, but it is used.

Just for future reference, here's the original artwork for Kefka:
user posted image

Edit: I think people tend to think "he looks kinda like a clown and acts like one, so that must be the idea behind Kefka, that he's a clown." No I wouldn't call him a clown solely on the way he acts because it's not a word I use much, but you could certainly make the connection.

Posted by: Rangers51 28th January 2004 23:13

I myself think there is just as much evidence that he was modeled after a clown or jester as he was a noble. It's a matter of opinion - I can see where you're coming from, but I think he works better as a madman who chooses to dress like a clown.

Posted by: Stephen the Third 28th January 2004 23:17

It is perfectly acceptable to label him as insane, which has more than enough supporting evidence. I know he is vulgar and malicious in his interaction with others, but his plan to acquire more power / employment of this plan through manipulation and deception is pretty meticulous and precise, so at least we can say his thinking is somewhat refined. Plus, his whole "I'm superior to you so I don't need to bother myself with giving you respect" disposition is more comparable to that of a 17th century noble than to a clown.

To me, his character has always been a mixture between an over-exaggerated figure of past nobility with a touch of cupidity, an egocentric and self-serving narcissist, and a cold-hearted maniac.

By the way, here are some more pieces of Kefka character artwork by Amano:
user posted image

To me, these pictures always just reminded me of overly exaggerated noble clothing... the one on the right a bit less exaggerated than the one on the left.

Posted by: Aminomin 29th January 2004 00:05

If you've seen the movie Amadeus, you know about the absurd laugh that Mozart makes. That laugh reminds me almost exactly of Kefka's laugh. Seeing as this movie came out in 1984 and is based on Renaissance-type crap, I think that Square based Kefka's laugh on that laugh in the movie. I think this gives some support to the Renaissance-nobleman idea.
I've never seen Kefka as a clown.

Edit: I found this sound clip of the Mozart laugh:
http://www.moviesounds.com/amadeus/laughing.mp3

Posted by: Stephen the Third 29th January 2004 00:16

How strange! I myself have noticed the similarities between Kefka's laugh and Mozart's in the movie "Amadeus" as well! One of my all time favorite movies, by far.

Anyway, yeah, I see Kefka as a mix between--for those of you who have seen the movie--as half Mozart and half Salieri in that he has the whole "I'm better than everyone else" attitude of Mozart and, of course, his laugh while he also has the dark, self-serving and manipulative features of Salieri.

Posted by: conquistador 29th January 2004 00:31

never thought about it that way. your pointz all make sense tho, amigo. i guess he isnt a clown after all.

Posted by: Figaro 29th January 2004 01:54

Hmm.... your point is well made, Stephen, but I still like the idea of him being a demented clown. And he's an enemy that doesn't really need a huge sword either. His magical powers are intimidationg enough. For more future reference, this just kinda reminds me of clown make-up gone bad:

user posted image

But come to think of it, he does kinda look like 17th century French, as his last name, Palazzo, would imply.

Posted by: conquistador 29th January 2004 03:28

GNAAAARLY pic, figz. by trhe way how do you get more stars by your name?

kefka was the only bad guy in all of the final fantasiez that i actually despised... whoever designed him was genius.

so much more of a badass than sephiroth from ff7. he was too busy being all mysterious and busy making sure his silver hair looked all pretty to be much of a TRU VILLAIN like my boy kefka!

but i have to disgree with you figz, that picture is way more in the style of an olden noble dude than a demented clown with bad makeup.

Posted by: Stephen the Third 29th January 2004 03:40

Quote

But come to think of it, he does kinda look like 17th century French, as his last name, Palazzo, would imply.

I actually think that "Palazzo" is an italian name, Figaro. I could be wrong, of course, but I believe that "palazzo" is italian for "palace."

Anyway, conquistador, I actually had the same problem with old sephie, heh. While I thought that he looked pretty nifty, he just didn't scream "villain" like Kefka did.

While I wouldn't say I despised Kefka (he is my favorite character in the series, heh), I will say that the first time playing through he surprised me by just how heartless he could be.

Seeing him poison Doma when I was younger really struck me as a purely evil, sadistic act on Kefka's part. It was really the first villain I had experienced within the series to truly be that malevolent and amoral. Same goes for when he kills Leo, uses the light of judgement, etc.

His character is consistent throughout the game, and is purely despicable and evil... I love it.

Posted by: The_Pink_Nu1 29th January 2004 04:29

I loved Figaro's FMV snap of Kefka, if anyone has seen Rugrats, it reminds me of Angelica's Cynthia doll.

That'll bring me to my input, French noblemen and court jesters aside, I think Kefka is based on a doll from a kids' cartoon.

Posted by: Iggy 29th January 2004 16:57

Hey, this is my first post on CoN.

But about the whole Kefka thing, the word "eccentric springs to mind. The fact that sometimes he can be extremely evil, (I also agree he's the best villian in the whole series by far) and sometimes a kind of maniacal clown, (as he laughs often and makes snide little jokes, mostly for his own amusement), kind of brings across the fact that he's so fickle. So sometimes you kind of think of Kefka as a clown, and sometimes as an eccentric noble. Whatever he is, he's still nifty.

And although Gogo looks slightly like a clown, he doesn't wear makeup and pretty pictures all over his face.

Also, the nobles from the 1700s or whenever it was you said, wore those clothes because they were the style at the time. Kefka is the only character from FF6 I know who wears makeup so it's certainly not the style. Maybe he IS just a clown, but if he is then he's a ruthless clown.

Moderator Edit

Did you really mean the Kefka prefers men to women? If so, sorry for the edit, but I'd like to see proof of that. Anyway, please look over the forum rules.

I was going with the 17th century idea. I meant ecstatic since he always seems to be laughing in a maniacal way. I can see how it was confusing, sorry. I'll shut up.

Posted by: Stephen the Third 29th January 2004 18:52

Quote

Of course, that statement assumes that all of the characters and cities within FFVI were inspired by the same source when this is CLEARLY not the case at all. I mean, look at the heterogenous group of characters and towns within the game.

For example, you have not only medieval type weaponry, towns, and characters (like Cyan, who dons a full suit of armor while his opponents can be found in suits of magitek mechanical battle armor) but also futuristic and industrial characters (like Cid, the empire's futuristic engineer) and regions. For example, compare Vector to say, Figaro or Narshe. It's a very diverse realm that square has created, eh?

Each character and region in this game clearly has different sources of origin as far as where the inspiration for their creation came from. Thus, it is perfectly feasible for Kefka to be modelled after something that no one else is.

Posted by: Shirrow 29th January 2004 20:38

Interesting topic.

Personally, I never saw Kefka as a clown. Not even the first time I played FFVI, and I knew nothing of that noble stuff back then. I just simply got the picture of an insane man who has a weird clothes style. The makeup and the clothes made me think of how people looked long ago in French (sorry if I insult anyone or have the information incorrect. My historical memory isn't the best, if I'm wrong, please correct me). So no, Kefka was never and will never be a clown in my eyes. But other people might think so if they want to.

Posted by: conquistador 29th January 2004 20:45

Quote

Interesting topic.

i agree shirrow. this has been for me the most interestic c.o.n. topic to read so far in the little time since i signed up. steve's points are made very well... it would suck for me if i disagreed with him ever, i dont think i can handel debating at this level LOL

i never saw kefka as clowny either i just didnt know what to think of him. steve really cleared this up 4 me with this post. ¡excellente, esteban!

i just noticed these smiliez, haha. they rock the partay.

Posted by: Jlombardi13 29th January 2004 21:19

Cool topic. I definitely agree that he doesn't seem like a clown to me. He does have the evil, creepy jester qualities though.

Posted by: Dark Paladin 30th January 2004 01:02

I would have voted option #2 if you hadn't included the part about the sword.
There are more than two villains in the series that includes almost 20 games. While similarities exist, they are all distinct. Leave it that way.

Posted by: Syndarr 30th January 2004 01:20

Oh wow. Quite a well-thought-out argument you've got here, Stephen.

I wasn't sure what to think of Kefka until I reached the battle where he first gets a "monster" sprite. At that point, I started getting an image of some kind of foppish, fawning, supercilious courtier--which is sort of what he was, but of course with much, MUCH more depth to him. Once the "clown" appellation came to my awareness, I went, "Well, okay, I can see why people think he is. He's definitely got a sense of humor, all right, even if it is an incredibly sick one."

The thought also occurred to me that maybe he either was or wanted to appear to be the archetypical "wise fool" figure. Such a person is more or less exempt from the law, but more importantly, may speak his mind without fear of retribution; he may go where he wants when he wants, he is often considered the voice of truth (see the earlier mention of the Shakespearean clown), and it is a heinous crime for anybody to harm him. Maybe Kefka took this idea and corrupted it for his own purposes.

Oh, and no argument from me that he's a nut...

Posted by: conquistador 30th January 2004 02:03

Quote

would have voted option #2 if you hadn't included the part about the sword.
There are more than two villains in the series that includes almost 20 games. While similarities exist, they are all distinct. Leave it that way.

LOLZ

@ that comment. duuude, dark palapoopa, i think the whole "he needz less makeup and a sword" part of the clown option was meant to be a funny joke. in my experienze, all that say they h8 kefka and looove sephiroth say that kefka looks like a darn clown and that seph is cool because he looks mysterious in his black long coat and has a 'cool sword.' puh-leeeeease realize when some1 is being sarcastic / j0king, partay poopa.

stevie was just arguing against the clown association that peepz have been makin with kefka because of how he lookz. i don't see how he is making kefka less distinct in this argument.

Edit

sorry, i thoughtz that syndarr made that post @ first... sorry 4 n e confusion

Posted by: i90east 30th January 2004 02:16

Quote (conquistador)

in my experienze, all that say they h8 kefka and looove sephiroth say that kefka looks like a darn clown and that seph is cool because he looks mysterious in his black long coat and has a 'cool sword.' puh-leeeeease realize when some1 is being sarcastic / j0king, partay poopa.

In my experience all that say they dislike Kefka are very serious critics of FFVI. They prefer a darker, more serious looking villan. Some refer to Kefka as a clown in comparison to Sephiroth because of the vast difference in behavior.

Posted by: i4v 30th January 2004 02:39

Actually, I'm fairly sure, FAIRLY mind you(not positive), that clowns dressed as exaturated( I killed that word) nobles because the preformed for pesants. And pesants found nothing as funny as high and mighty noble make fools of themselves. I heard this from my English teacher. But she was wrong on several occasions, so if this isn't true, don't yell.

Posted by: Stephen the Third 30th January 2004 03:00

Quote

dark palapoopa

Words can't express the absolute brilliance of that nickname, conquistador..... classic.

But yeah, Dark Pal......adin (heh), when I put the 'needs less makeup' and 'needs a huge sword' part of option #2 down I wasn't being completely serious. In no way was I trying to imply that, by choosing that option, one would want to lessen or alter any of his distinguishing characteristics. I apologize if that was unclear to you.

In reality, however, conquistador was somewhat correct: I was making a jab at those who actually inspired me to make this topic. In a discussion, Kefka was brought up for whatever reason and, shockingly, the others in the argument all agreed that Kefka was not as cool as other villains like Sephiroth.

Upon inquiry, I found that the features many stressed against Kefka were his physical resemblance to, in their minds, a clown. They also said they couldn't stand his "hideous laugh." So basically, they didn't like kefka because he dressed in bright colors and laughed a lot, which obviously (note the sarcasm) makes him a clown. And we all know how much clowns suck, right? So by their reasoning, basically, kefka=clown and clown=lame, so kefka=lame.

I'm not saying that ALL those who dislike Kefka use this reasoning, nor am I insulting anyone's opinion of Kefka. I simply can't stand people who use such petty reasoning in an argument.

But yeah, I just found it funny that when asked what was so amazing about Sephiroth, the responses (and again, I'm not saying that EVERYONE who likes Sephiroth is like this) all basically revolved around his "badass" appearance and weaponry.

I don't know, it just seemed like a very fickle justification. "Sephiroth looks cooler, so he must be a bigger badass and more evil!" Reasoning like that is almost offensive, and the main reason I don't post on GameFAQs message boards anymore.

Once again, I am NOT saying that everyone who likes sephiroth more than kefka does so for the aforementioned reasons, NOR am I saying that they are wrong for liking Sephiroth more. I am actually quite a fan of old Sephie, but that is neither here nor there.

Basically, I was just using the last two parts of the second option to poke fun at the people who drove me to make this topic.... sorry if I confused you.

Posted by: Neal 30th January 2004 03:27

He reminds me too much of Beetlejuice for me to consider him French nobility.

Posted by: Vei 30th January 2004 03:30

Quote (i90east @ 28th January 2004 14:52)

If he was refined, he would act more mature and reserved like Emperor Gesthal or even [zombified] like Sephiroth.

Fixed.

Quote

Just because you do not know the exact origin/model of his appearance, or even his persona, doesn't mean you can just find a simple term that you know and apply it.

Really? If we don't know the correct term, what would you have us call him? "Kefka the I-don't-know-what"? How are we inherently supposed to determine whether or not we're using the correct terminology? Labeling is a subjective business and isn't inherantly wrong.

[/argumentative]

Kefka wasn't really anything for me except a nut. A really flamboyant nut with a penchant for killing people. Pretty simplistic (the description), but he's still my favorite FF villain.

Posted by: The Raging Newbie 1st February 2004 07:46

Personally, Kefka looks like a deranged Burghermeister in the green and red and whatnot with the red flower. Just swap lederhosen with that long green and red cloak and there ya go. Or he could just be a fop with a really bizzare taste in clothing.

And with a guy like Kefka, it's not generally a good idea to dig to deep into what he's wearing and why he's wearing it.

Posted by: Stephen the Third 1st February 2004 08:36

Quote

And with a guy like Kefka, it's not generally a good idea to dig to deep into what he's wearing and why he's wearing it.

Well, I wasn't really digging into his reasons for wearing his gaudy, colorful outfits as much as just stating my hypothesis as to the inspiration of his character model.

Amano's character art really, in my opinion, really sheds a lot of light as far as suggesting a 17th century / old franco/hispano-philic fashion. Eh, I suppose the only person who knows the source of inspiration for Kefka Palazzo is Amano himself.... but I sure do enjoy formulating my own hypotheses.

By the way, about the Beetlegeuse-esque costume of Kefka... what a completely and disgracefuly defamatory portrayal of my favorite fallen angel / narcissistic madman. Do you honestly think that Kefka, the bringer of ruin and chaos, would let himself be caught in garb of material so cheap looking, eh?

Plus, he would never let himself be that scawny and goofy looking.

Posted by: Stephen the Third 1st February 2004 08:48

Heh, I was just looking through the fanart section here on CoN and found a couple of kefka images that I thoroughly enjoyed... just thought you all may want to see and be able to appreciate them. I think these are probably the best non-amano works I have seen as far as suggesting the same character mood / disposition. The rest seem to be almost too far into the whole "clown garb" territory.

user posted image

these two were drawn by: Narratorway (excellent work, my friend)

user posted image

This is by an unknown artist (pity, it is quite well drawn.)

The rest seem to be too clowny, some even going as far as putting a red nose / red nose make up on my favorite villain. Unacceptable!

heh, on that note, I shall bid you all adieu for the night.

Moderator Edit

Hikaroo is correct - don't double post. In the future, when you want to post again, do so by editing your first post. -R51

Posted by: Hikaroo 1st February 2004 12:34

Kefka is Kefka. I can't think of anyway to say it. I don't think he's a clown, and I certainly think he's not any sort of royal anything except a pain in the butt. ^.^
I like 14v's thought.
I won't even bother joining this debate, but I do have to say one thing.
Why bother starting a thread asking what people think if you are going to go out of your way to prove them wrong and try and make them think your way? That sort of defeats the purpose of having an opinion.
And to be honest, you ramble so much that I got bored with reading what you wrote, and just read every one else's comments.
It's an outfit. Everyone sees things in different ways, and if someone says he's a clown, he's a stupid clown. If they say he's some noble freak, then he's a noble freak. It depends on the persons view.
Just from all of your speils and arguments, you're swaying me more towards him actually being a clown. Good job!

-.-

Edit

I'd edit your post instead of mine, but I'm not a mod of this forum. Don't double post. Edit your previous post if you would.

Posted by: Stephen the Third 1st February 2004 18:42

Sorry about the whole double-post thing. I will be better about that in the future.

Quote

Just from all of your speils and arguments, you're swaying me more towards him actually being a clown. Good job!

Well, then thank god you "just read everyone else's comments," Hikaroo.

Quote

It's an outfit.

You know, as you are an artist I figured you would have been intrigued by the source of another's inspiration, especially since you enjoy drawing his (Amano's) characters. Pity that you aren't.

And true, this topic was originally just for opinions, I suppose. But if someone is using faulty logic in formulating an opinion, is it really wrong of me to tell them that? Also, is it wrong of me to post a defense of my argument in response to a post that counters it? If so, then I humbly ask for your the official CoN artist's forgiveness. Otherwise, thanks for posting this insightful, condescending little post of yours.

Posted by: Elena99 1st February 2004 18:59

It's a game, Stephen the Third. A really well-done game, but a game. :-)

I did admit that your theory had merit, when I looked at the pictures and read the post. However, for all we know, the designers could have been thinking this:

"We need something new for this villain. Something unique, something we haven't done before...oh! Oh, hey, instead of the stereotypical dark colours and all, why don't we make him really bright and cheery looking! Wait, no, no...bright and creepy! Red and green colours, and blues, and yellows, clashing...white face paint with red streaks, like blood! And we'll give him a really creepy laugh, too."

Or maybe:

"You know what would make a good villain? A clown. Or, someone that looks like a clown. Hmm." "A clown? What?" "Well, no one would suspect a clown." "Maybe, but don't do just a clown. We want him to be scary, too."

I've read most of the comments, and what you've said, and I don't really see much faulty logic. Kefka is the result of a creative mind, and last I checked, creative minds tend to be more creative when they can step outside the box and not be logical :-)

Posted by: Rangers51 1st February 2004 19:07

You can use logic all you want, Stephen. But you don't get to dictate what Kefka is or is not based solely on logic. If you really want to know, you would have to ask a minimum of three people, I think: Amano, Sakaguchi, and probably even Ted Woolsey. As the concept artist, producer, and localization director, they would have the most insight of anyone as to the true intent behind the creation of Kefka.

You mentioned earlier that only Amano has the true intent, for which I commend you. And since you recognize that, I just don't get why you're trying to convince anyone. Let them have their opinions.

Since all the arguments are based upon opinion rather than objective fact, there's no way to say that logic has a place. You're using your impressions to draw your conclusion, as is everyone else. There's no right or wrong in it, so why try to find some? You don't know any more than anyone else, so I don't feel that you get to point out where anyone's logic is wrong.

Posted by: Glenn Magus Harvey 4th February 2004 20:52

To me, Kefka was just some indescribable crazy but truly pure evil madman. I started noticing he did somewhat resemble a clown when I read some joke about evil clowns and when people started comparing him to a clown. In my opinion, Kefka isn't really categorizable into any 'group', and although he does bear similarities to clowns, jesters, nobility, etc., he doesn't really fit. I argue something that someone else once wrote about Kefka: Kefka is just a plainly cruel, purely evil, insane, crafty, yet dogged maniac for power, and he has a taste for destruction and killing. Somehow, although I haven't been able to figure out what kind of 'thing' he is, I still think he's the best-designed villain of all time (actually beats Queen Zeal, who is also very very evil). Somehow, even though he seems lame in that he does evil things directly and doesn't adopt a characteristic Golbez-like or Sephiroth-like attitude (two of the most oft-used designs that result in well-designed villains), he still seems amazing--especially that he could do so much evil and get so 'lucky' with his actions.

I null voted because I think Kefka is derived from a combination of inspirations, one of which might possibly be 17th century French nobility and another of which might be a clown/jester.

Edit: I read Elena99's post after I posted my original message, so I want to add a few things. I am quite convinced that Kefka was intentionally made to look light and silly so players wouldn't expect much from him in terms of plot, and then...you know what happened.

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

In the RPG I'm making I plan to make a strong allusion to Kefka. First, there's a rising army officer named Fastowitz Keff, who is notably cruel in his actions. When he is later killed, you don't see much more of him (duh) until you get to lower hell. There, you realize that he has been serving Lucifer. The fight with Lucifer will practically be copied from the final battle, and Lucifer is the only enemy in hell who is light-elemental. I emphasize the light-elemental part because Kefka does seem to be partially based on Lucifer (at least his final form) and this relationship strengthens the light/dark contrast between Kefka and many other villains, such as Golbez, Sephiroth, and Zeal.

Posted by: MogMaster 5th February 2004 04:27

In my opinion no kefka is not a clown. He's more of an evuil genius. He realized the only way to make the people submit was through fear. This is a tried and true Method, Hitler, Stalin, Musolini, Nero, ect. The Makiavelli tactics used by these people including Kefka, clearly proves this. If only a Band of Ragtag heros had been there to Stop ole Adolf.....heh. Anyhow No clown could ever destroy a world and rule it through fear. Kefka Realized that the way he dressed was ou tthere, If you looked like Kefka did, you'd probably realize the only way anyone is taking you serious is if you destroy the world, and constantly batter the remanants.

Posted by: Glenn Magus Harvey 5th February 2004 21:22

Yep, MogMaster, that's the kind of description I was looking for--an "evil genius" in the guise of a clown (so that people wouldn't take him seriously until it was too late). Thanks!

The thing about Kefka is that whereas Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, and Nero (and others) are at least somewhat reserved on killing and destroying (such as killing only certain groups of people), but Kefka destroys and kills almost indiscriminately as long as he recognizes that doing that would be to his advantage. He also (gasp!) enjoys killing and destroying things--that comes from the demented part of him. So he's an evil genius gone awry--making him even worse (and an even better antagonist).

Posted by: Kuja 5th February 2004 23:51

I personally think he's supposed to be a hybrid of a clown/medieval jester which would explain the clothes and the attitude. But hey I was always a fan of Cefca (sorry i'm used to the JAP verion of the game, they don't call him Kefka in JAP) he reminded me of Dryst from Brigandine!

Posted by: MogMaster 7th February 2004 04:59

Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 5th February 2004 16:22)

... and Nero (and others) are at least somewhat reserved on killing and destroying (such as killing only certain groups of people), but Kefka destroys and kills almost indiscriminately as long as he recognizes that doing that would be to his advantage. He also (gasp!) enjoys killing and destroying things--that comes from the demented part of him.

FYI Nero was as demented as Kefka. As Rome Burned he played a violin, he was hella demented. The Only diffirence ids nero didnt have statues and an evil light beam, He killed at whim as suited his fancy

Posted by: i90east 7th February 2004 18:09

Word.

Posted by: Glenn Magus Harvey 7th February 2004 18:38

Aha. Thanks, i90east. That shows that even if the creators of Kefka didn't intend to make him clownish, they sure realized that he ended up clownish.

Also, a comment on the Kefka picture by an anonymous artist, shown in Stephen the Third's second post on this page (1 Feb. 2004 3:48): Whoever is pictured there seriously doesn't seem crazy enough to be the Kefka we know. But might it be Kefka before he went mad? But then why would he dress like that? Hmm...makes me want to start a new thread on this subject.

Posted by: Figaro 7th February 2004 23:20

About i90's pic that he posted:
Although I think of Kefka as a clown, I'm not quite sure that's what they were refering to in that segment of dialogue. I think that they were trying to convey that the soldiers think that he's crazy. Of course, clown's are pretty crazy now that I think about it...

Hey, here's one reason you've had enough FFVI if:

-You develop Coulrophobia because of Kefka

EDIT - Realized it was my 300 post

Posted by: i90east 8th February 2004 00:36

We defined the word "clown" at the beginning, and the above picture proves my case on the subjective front. Kefka can be referred to as a clown point blank. Does he belong to a circus and perform tricks? No, but that's an entirely different definition of which I am not debating. Does he look like a clown? There is no absolute answer for it's solely an opinionated issue.

Posted by: HighRoller 27th February 2004 05:51

Kefka is a truly unique character. Part 17th century Italian/French nobleman, part Court Jester. Ambitious, insane, and ruthless.

I'd like to say that there is something very Marquis de Sade'ish about him.

Sadistic, hedonistic,egocentric.

Posted by: Stephen the Third 27th February 2004 17:58

First of all, is the word "clown" a direct translation from the japanese text of the game, or was it toned down in its translation in order to not be vulgar?

I have a hard time believing that the original, japanese script used "clown" at that point in the game.

Second of all, the soldier is using the term more as an insult than a definition of Kefka's character. At least, that is my interpretation. I mean, if someone were to say, "Oh man, that girl is an angel... she never does anything wrong." Does that mean she is actually an angel? Agreed, it does mean she has certain traits of an angel, but look at what it is associating with clowns:

"That clown, Kefka, is on the verge of invading Narshe."

Now, I don't see how being 'on the verge of invading' somewhere is a clownish attribute. I would really like to see the original japanese text for that quote, as I think it probably used a slightly vulgar, more applicable word to the context.

And, on HighRoller's comment about Kefka being

Quote

Sadistic, hedonistic,egocentric.

Exactly how I see him!

Posted by: Connor 27th February 2004 23:08

In my personal opinion, the reason why Kefka looks and acts the way he does is the outward expression of his obvious insanity. That really goes without saying, but what i mean by this is that I think before his infusion with magic he was the image of what everyone percieves as a soldeir. After his infusion, he goes insane and all of those darker things deep within his mind got knocked loose and turned him into the exact opposite of what he was.

Posted by: Shivy 8th March 2004 07:18

Just to add my 2 cents in really quickly, I think that Kefka originally gives off the impression of the foppish nobleman (fitting both sides of the argument). As one gets further into his character as the game progresses, you can realize just how much he plays the part of the two-faced, scheming nobleman. But on the other side I must say that the man may have gone to the Ringling Bros. School of Fashion.

Posted by: Stephen the Third 8th March 2004 11:07

Quote

But on the other side I must say that the man may have gone to the Ringling Bros. School of Fashion.

Hey now, don't be so hard on the guy... He tries his hardest. Look how neatly he keeps the plume in his hair angled and how precisely he applies the red markings under his eyes. You say he looks funny, I say he looks ravishing.

In all seriousness, though, I actually really like his getup. Of course, this is probably due to the fact that I see it more as a flamboyant nobility-esque fashion than a clown suit. Am I the only one who actually approves of his taste in fashion?

Posted by: Majik Monkee 8th March 2004 13:06

I have to agree that I don't think the term "clown" as used in the game itself is meant to define to use Kefka's classification or anything specific about his character. I have an old collection of Archie comics where Reggie and Archie frequently refer to one another as "clowns", leading me to believe that this term was frequently used as a toned down profanity...most likely back before my time. This would seem to make sense for it to be used this way in FFVI, since it was before the FF world brought us Cid and Barret, and their uncharted profanity.

Another reason I don't think Kefka is a clown or a jester is because those are the roles of a flunky, not a person in power or military commander. Everyone in the Empire seems to acknowledge his "importance", and to me, his extravagent attire seems more a way to accentuate his own self importance, and rub his position as one of Gesthal's right hand men in everyone's face...really, he seems to be THE right hand of Gesthal, since even Leo isn't privy to the realy purposes of the Empire. Anyway, that's my take...Kefka's garb definitely has a bit of a "clownish" feel to it, but when I look at it, more than anything I think of the extravagent dress of European nobles back when tights, ruffles, flashy colors, and feathered hats were the big thing. The Japanese have incorporated so many things from their own culture and some others into the FF games, and it wouldn't have surprise me if this was what they were shooting for here.

Posted by: harry_kinomoto 8th March 2004 16:34

Hello everyone! This is me 1st post on CoN!
Anyway, here are my afterthoughts on this issue after reading everyone’s comments:-
1-This idea about whether or not Kefka is refined, I think, should be based more upon his mannerisms than of his status. Because he acts in a somewhat loud-mouthed way (“Ahem-there’s SAND in my boots!”) and treats most everyone else like dirt, he is thus unrefined. He is thus in this sense, somewhat coarse, maybe even vulgar to some.
You see, the opposite of an unrefined one might probably be a gentleman- someone who possesses appropriate etiquette, and treats everyone at least decently, like how you are supposed to act in the game when Emperor Gesthal invited you to dinner. To illustrate my point, consider the following reactions of two parties to the following scenario: Kefka and a “gentleman” at a dinner. When the food, say fish, is served, both parties find the food absolutely horrible.
“Gentleman”-(In a very polite and dignified manner) Erm excuse me waiter, but I am allergic to fish (Even though he is not, he says this because he does not want to directly insult the chef’s cooking). Could you perhaps bring me something else, please?
Kefka- (In a very loud and bossy tone) You idiotic nut! This food is absolutely atrocious! I demand to see the chef! Get that incompetent nut here NOW! And while you’re at it, at least bring me something edible to eat! Now go, and don’t be all day about it!!!
2-I don’t think Kefka wears brightly coloured clothes because he is a “clown” I think it is because these clothes bring out his loud-mouthed attitude. It brings out this facet of his character. After all, clothes sometimes define the wearer, don’t they? Possibly also shows that he doesn’t care about being “weird”. I mean, how many people would be seen wearing that nowadays?

Anyway, as to whether or not he’s a clown, I think it’s largely a matter of opinion. I personally don’t think so. He doesn’t seem to fit the type for various reasons as aforementioned by so many others.

Posted by: l)arkShadow 9th March 2004 02:46

He's Crazy like a clown
He's Insane like a clown
He looks like a clown
He laughs like a clown
He grows wings like an insane evil crazy clown
He triees to dominate the world like... a world dictator
He kills people for fun like Hitler
He draws the light of judgement like a clown.
Conclusion: He...is...a...INSANE CRAZY FOOL!
I voted Other

Posted by: Majik Monkee 10th March 2004 12:55

I've seen clowns do a lot of crazy things before, but sprouting wings has never been one of them.

Maybe there's a word for what Kefka is in the FFVI world, and they all know it, and accept him as what he is, and we're just left out of the loop, being stuck with only our real world terminology to try to classify him. They accept Kefka as Kefka, and that's okay, just like it's apparantly okay to have some flashily dressed lunatic follow you around and play the "shadow game", mimicing your every move, without getting his lights punched out (I'm referring to Gogo for those of you who didn't get that

) I really think Kefka is just a Kefka...maybe his horrible style of dress will lead others in his world to refer to others who commit fashion atrocities as "Kefkas" in the future...

Posted by: rapa-nui 10th March 2004 20:28

Quote

I couldn't have put it better myself. So, he's a super-powerful toddler-like (I've always kind of though of him as never being able to mature psychologically past the point of his Magic infusion) egotist. The clown dress makes him seem weaker or foolish... precisely what he wants his enemies to think.

A completely compelling and devious villain.

Posted by: Stephen the Third 11th March 2004 07:10

Quote

The clown dress makes him seem weaker or foolish... precisely what he wants his enemies to think.

Do you really think that he dressed the way he did to trick others into thinking he was foolish? I always thought that his twisted, arrogant personality would have actually found his gaudy, overly colorful clothing appealing. Thus, he dressed himself that way out of his own personal fashion taste.

I don't think he ever attempted to seem weak or foolish, personally. I think that if anyone treated him as a lesser, stupid person he would have flipped his lid. He was always ruthless and always asserted himself as being higher than others (example: the boot shining in the desert). I do admit that he was deceptive, but don't think he ever wanted to make himself look weak or foolish.

Posted by: GamblingCat 11th March 2004 23:22

He is gotta be something else. Not Human, not clown, but something. He is very weird. that's all I gotta say

Posted by: The Gambler 15th March 2004 23:33

I think he went crazy after the magitek infusion and the outfit is just a result...but for a long time i thought he was a she

Posted by: anthonyyoung 17th March 2004 18:39

he may look like a clown, but i think he is not, kefka is a cool bad guy, but i dont think they would put a clown in FFIV