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I'm one of the number of people that have become disillusioned by Squenix's recent content. More often than not, I find myself standing there, hands out, trying to figure out just what in blue blazes happened to one of my favorite gaming developers/publishers.

The following video reflected what I've seen lately. That, and the combination of desperate stabs at Nostalgia.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLbPJazeDh4



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"So, are you a fan of the Fett?"

"Nah, I'm more of a Star Wars guy."

Truth be told:I think the guy who made that video is right:Square enix tells you how to enjoy the game the way they want you to enjoy it.Enix has lost focus on what's important:The fans.If we don't like it, they don't make money and go broke.

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

If Death Penalty were 100% honest, he would say this video is full of crap.

Games have never exclusively been about players, and they've never not-at-all been about players. An audience doesn't exist for something that hasn't been invented yet, so "listening to the players" will never create something actually new -- something like, oh, say FF1, or FF6, or FF7, or FF10, or, yes, even FF13.

Square Enix never stopped listening to fans -- which is precisely why they produce the titles that we mock the most here at CoN, like small silly mobile ftp games or re-re-re-re-releases. It's also why FF13 got its fast-paced, flashy combat, something that many people who dislike the game attack (but that many people enjoy). The point is that fans are fickle. They don't all want the same thing -- and in fact, you'd be hard pressed to find even three of them that want the same thing.

Instead, game developers, like any artists, have to tread a thin line between straining to hear the entropic ocean of fan opinion and following their own unique vision. The real problem here is that any major producer of art (like Square Enix, ) is caught between the rock of "selling out" to the masses and the hard place "not listening" to them. If you listen closely to a group of people bashing Square Enix, you'll find that they're actually divided into these two utterly opposite positions -- they just don't realize it, because they're too busy inventing some idyllic videogame past in order to clobber an equally fictive present of doom. This is the hypocrisy of criticism.

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Currently Playing : Final Fantasy V
Most Recently Beat : Elder Scrolls: Skyrim
Favorite Game : Final Fantasy X

The newest CoNcast is up! Have a listen!

Perhaps the old art of the JRPG is dead. At least the way I remember it. It might be wonderful for some people to rush from cut scene to cut scene. I likened 13 (which I did play) to a glorified visual novel. Those, in of themselves, aren't bad. They just aren't the rpg's I'm used to playing.

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"So, are you a fan of the Fett?"

"Nah, I'm more of a Star Wars guy."

Quote (Death Penalty @ 24th December 2015 18:44)

If Death Penalty were 100% honest, he would say this video is full of crap.

Games have never exclusively been about players, and they've never not-at-all been about players. An audience doesn't exist for something that hasn't been invented yet, so "listening to the players" will never create something actually new -- something like, oh, say FF1, or FF6, or FF7, or FF10, or, yes, even FF13.

Square Enix never stopped listening to fans -- which is precisely why they produce the titles that we mock the most here at CoN, like small silly mobile ftp games or re-re-re-re-releases. It's also why FF13 got its fast-paced, flashy combat, something that many people who dislike the game attack (but that many people enjoy). The point is that fans are fickle. They don't all want the same thing -- and in fact, you'd be hard pressed to find even three of them that want the same thing.

Instead, game developers, like any artists, have to tread a thin line between straining to hear the entropic ocean of fan opinion and following their own unique vision. The real problem here is that any major producer of art (like Square Enix, ) is caught between the rock of "selling out" to the masses and the hard place "not listening" to them. If you listen closely to a group of people bashing Square Enix, you'll find that they're actually divided into these two utterly opposite positions -- they just don't realize it, because they're too busy inventing some idyllic videogame past in order to clobber an equally fictive present of doom. This is the hypocrisy of criticism.

I disagree death penalty.

Enix made XIII to try and cater to as many as possible and ended up with a mess.They only really care if for some reason they lose money, and then they listen.

Look at FFXIII reaction:They realized it was a disaster so they took in mind what to do with FFXIII-2, which was interesting idea with the weapons systems.

Enix did listen to the ff7 fans clamor inf for a remake but they made a mistake with 6 and just made a port instead of a remake.I even heard that at first FFXIV was a disasters do had to be fixed up.

In my opinion:Enix only listens in a little bit but most of the time they ignore their roots.We haven't gotten a game that went back to the fantasy and don't tell me 12 was fantasy as you had a lot of futuristic stuff.Didnt you have like tie fighters and stuff?

I think it's possible Enix might even be listening more now due to their failures in their past which brought them this path in the first place.Their poll in the first place shows that they hit a brick wall.

I have also heard some saying ffXV is going to be the best game ever as it's going to be sandbox.



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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 26th December 2015 12:29)

In my opinion:Enix only listens in a little bit but most of the time they ignore their roots.We haven't gotten a game that went back to the fantasy and don't tell me 12 was fantasy as you had a lot of futuristic stuff.Didnt you have like tie fighters and stuff?

Ever since the first Final Fantasy and technology was a part of it. The final fiend's dungeon was full of computers, and most of all, the dreaded Warmech. The fourth Final Fantasy had more than just Chocobos and airships. Even tanks were part of it. The fifth Final Fantasy had something much alike a floating island with lots of defenses. Heh, mechs of all kinds were already in here. Then here came the sixth Final Fantasy. Before a certain pesky clown came in, technology was already seeping into everywhere, including specialized mobile airships for battle. And to think that there's no mention of fuel in the game.

And this technology co-existed with the fantasy setting. But hey, you gotta give credit to IV and VI more specifically. So yeah, their roots already included futuristic machines, stuff we've yet to dream of building.

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I am Exdeath. Step aside pesky clowns, or your warranty is Void!

Can we maybe stop just saying "Enix" when we talk about things going downhill? Enix didn't turn up and ruin your life. Square took them over, and now you're looking at the combined forces of two companies who don't quite know how to fit in any more. Yoichi Wada is from the Square side of the company.

The lost art thing is pretty close to how I see it. When I first played FF7 and FF6, and even FF8, what made me keep playing and enjoy them was the world, story and atmosphere, which at that time, Square did better than just about anybody. There was some charm to the game mechanics, particularly when integrated into the game world like materia (as long as they weren't revoltingly annoying mechanics in themselves, like GFs) but the battle gameplay was something I lived with to experience everything else; a means to an end rather than anything I enjoyed in its own right. The field gameplay, i.e. the sense of world exploration, was entertaining (occasional Escher moments aside, FF7) but it's the world design that makes that work rather than any nuance of how you wander from place to place, and being dragged into a big, swirly, slow-loading battle didn't do anything to enhance it.

I don't think Squenix have necessarily forgotten any of that, but in the meantime, lots of other people caught up on storytelling. The nineties FFs have certainly had their influence on that, but people who grew up listening to those stories have gone on to tell more interesting ones. After I first played FF7, I wanted to play more of the series, but I eventually got tired with the feeling that I was playing mostly the same game for mostly a similar story over and over.

But other games have evolved to the point where the gameplay involves you in the story, rather than being something you have to deal with to get to the story. Squenix are trying to do something about that, but they're the ones playing catchup now, and there's a slight sense of panic surrounding that process - it kind of feels like "We don't understand why we need to change, but we're just going to try to copy-paste some other formulas into our own formula and see how that works." Maybe that has to be the starting point, I dunno, but I feel like they're struggling for both a strong vision of their own and a strong idea of how to make that into something the rest of the world wants to buy into. The irony is that almost all of the games they publish do this much, much better than their first party "blockbusters", and even the smaller scale first party stuff tends to do a better job - and it's perhaps their lower budget titles that will provide inspiration for top tier titles to come, rather than Final Fantasy past.

Games are more about the player now than they ever have been, and Squenix have struggled to keep up with that. That doesn't mean you can't tell the story you want to tell - it just means that to do it successfully in a game, you have a higher bar to get over in other areas. Story in single player games is more important than ever, but everybody can tell a story now, and most people are managing to do it while actually producing a game that's fun to play while taking it in.

Nobody really thinks you should "listen to the players" in the respect of designing a game around direct feedback, or designing your story around the horrible ideas of your fan base - "fans" in particular are about the worst group to listen to. It may not be a video game, but to me, Heroes is the ultimate example of how you can ruin a product by listening directly to fan feedback. But look, if you're writing a book, it helps to have read some other books, right? Square Enix feels like a company that only read its own books for a long time, and created more and more iterations of the same book, and that's now slowly coming to terms with the idea that it needs to read a bit more widely and gain a bit more outside inspiration from what everyone else is reading now. It's more about looking at how other games and the different ways they're engaging players, and coming up with your own idea that achieves that, rather than painting by numbers with "things players want".

If they get it right, people will come back. Fans of the current output like to decry an anti-Squenix circlejerk, and I'm not saying that doesn't exist, but catering to a dwindling bunch of people who want to play more of the outdated stuff they enjoyed as a teenager doesn't work unless you're prepared to shrink as a company, and if you want that to be a viable route, you need to start pulling apart global capitalism.

They do have different pressures from different sides, and it's easy to think that they either need to let go of what their continuing "fans" want (more of the same old cobblers) or let go of being relevant. It's probably what they are thinking. But that doesn't mean they couldn't produce something that would satisfy a large part of both camps. There'll always be some compromise, some stalwarts crying in a corner, some haters determined to hate whatever they end up with, but thinking too hard about it ticking particular boxes only going to make it worse.

It's still possible to just tell the story you want to tell, as a developer, but you have to be willing to take a risk and not care that much about making money off of it. Basically, "doing it for the art".

There are many instances of it working out, such as for some hobbyist devs of doujin games. But frequently those games are niche games, whose limited revenue limits their potential for commercial success.

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current games (2024-02-19):
Fairy Fencer F ADF
Pokémon Perfect Crystal

finished so far this year:
Gato Roboto
drowning, drowning
New Super Mario Bros.
TMNT 3: Radical Rescue

tabled: Lost Ruins

Personally, as a member of XIII'S target audience, I can say that I thought it was a terrible game. The graphics were great, I wasn't too miffed about the pace of it...
What I didn't like was the fact that all I had to do to win was continually press X. It keeps screaming tutorials up until the endgame, which I found annoying. The game treats the players like dumb, dumb sheep that need to constantly be reminded of who the important characters are and how to play.
I also despised the characters, in all their shallowness (And with Lightning clearly trying to be a female version of Cloud, oooh, that annoyed me). Serah is basically a Mary Sue, and in my opinion, generally annoying.
I just couldn't take the game seriously. The plot was basically irrelevant and difficult to understand; VII might have had a steep story curve, but at least it was somewhat understandable.


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"I'll be judge, I'll be jury," said cunning old Fury:
"I'll try the whole cause, and condemn you to death.

Sounds like I should wait until FFXIII gets a remake.

Edit: HAHAHAHAHAHA Steam's Discovery Queue asks me if I want to get Final Fantasy XIII.

This post has been edited by Glenn Magus Harvey on 28th December 2015 22:38

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current games (2024-02-19):
Fairy Fencer F ADF
Pokémon Perfect Crystal

finished so far this year:
Gato Roboto
drowning, drowning
New Super Mario Bros.
TMNT 3: Radical Rescue

tabled: Lost Ruins

Tiddles I'm not saying enix can't make good games, it's just that square was on its way out by 2000 and enix part wanted to cash in on horrible ideas that are costly and don't seem to learn from their mistakes.

FFX took away airships flying over the map, and instead teleports you around like differen zones.This was a bad idea.They also took away variety of enemies.At least FFXIII had more variety, but suffered many of the same issues as FFX, and worse:Linearity to the extreme in map exploration and linearity in skill system, and a boring convoluted plot with unlike able kids.

Much of what is said before is the reason enix fails:We need something outside of stereotypical teenagers saving the world.I also want to point out that cloud strife is a terrible anti hero character.I personally think Barrett is better overall and most likeable, and sazh was better than lightning.

Square took a character tried to create a deep character and ended up with a loser and a poser who was unliekable and is a jerk, and enix took that from square and made lightning.

The reason I say this, is because enix has to try harder in creating good anti heroes.A good example of a amazing anti hero is from the book of Thomas covenant where the character gets lepracy and becomes an outcast and hated and is openly mocked to the point where he hates himself and wishes himself dead and is constantly in bouts of depression because his wife left him because of it and took away the children, but that took time to develop and isn't something that can be done ion 5 minutes of story telling.

Also I think we need to learn from ff7 on some things they had, and revert back.The materia system was really good and added a whole lot of options, and we need that.I also think mini games as well.

Also in my opinion:A lot of Americans are able to relate more to westernized products.I think Americans are willing to try Japanese style games as long as they can relate and enjoy gameplay, but enix keeps repeating the same story square had, and it's getting old.

I also do like turn based combats, but I'm interested in seeing what they will do with the remake of ff7, because if it's good I might buy the remake.



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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Your reasoning for a difference in quality isn't the issue. Your reasoning for using the name "Enix" is the issue.

Square and Enix merged. At the time, according to Wikipedia (which is always correct), 80% of the workforce came from the Square side, as did the company president.

Your implication is that Square's ideas were rehashed by a different company, which is entirely false. There were some notable staffing changes around the turn of the century, but these mostly came about before the merger, many as a result of the disastrous The Spirits Within (hint: pre-merger). Most of Square continued on as Square Enix.

This was not a hostile takeover where the delightful Square was overwhelmed by the monstrous Enix. There's a reason Square's name is first on the door. And you certainly can't blame FF10 on Enix, because it too was released long before the merger came about.

There is no Square. There is no Enix. The company is Square Enix, and it is as much as descendant of Square as Enix, if not more so. If you want to be cute and call it Squenix, do what you will, but your idea that Enix has been the deciding factor in any issues with Square franchises is a complete fantasy.

Then square side of Squeenix made a lot of bad choices.Then again:Since its birth square was a hit and miss company.Ff1 good game ff2 better story but considered bad ff3 same Crystal chronicles and so on.Those blunders were square not enix and I remember someone in a YouTube video was bashing yoichi wada blaming him for a lot of bad things.

I think it was the direction the square part of enix kept going with games.I know enix made a lot of good platform action games before merging, and I own illusion of Gaia which was an amazing game.

Terranigma and soul blazer are also quite good.

This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 6th January 2016 19:52

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

There is no Square part. There is no Enix part. It's Square-Enix, one company! Why aren't you getting this?

Quote (Cefca @ 6th January 2016 20:16)

There is no Square part. There is no Enix part. It's Square-Enix, one company! Why aren't you getting this?

Maybe because I'm talking about before the merger? Crystal chronicles and ff2 and 3 on nes are way before the merger, and I'm talking about how square was already hit or miss.

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (chevleclair @ 16th December 2015 21:47)

I'm one of the number of people that have become disillusioned by Squenix's recent content. More often than not, I find myself standing there, hands out, trying to figure out just what in blue blazes happened to one of my favorite gaming developers/publishers.

The following video reflected what I've seen lately. That, and the combination of desperate stabs at Nostalgia.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLbPJazeDh4

This video is too kind.

They aren't obsessed with the series Lore themselves, insomuch as they are obsessed with the idea of people being obsessed with it. If I'm not mistaken, SE are likely profiting from many people with untreated mental disabilities who are like, super-obsessed with the Final Fantasy series, and post screeds online, just walls and walls of text you understand, defending their one infinitesimally small and specific viewpoint.

...Good God I'm describing myself and absolutely everyone on every website I go to

SENGULARITY IS UPON US

ERAUQS SI DLROW EHT

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X is blue.

Quote (Spooniest @ 13th January 2016 11:49)

Quote (chevleclair @ 16th December 2015 21:47)

I'm one of the number of people that have become disillusioned by Squenix's recent content. More often than not, I find myself standing there, hands out, trying to figure out just what in blue blazes happened to one of my favorite gaming developers/publishers.

The following video reflected what I've seen lately. That, and the combination of desperate stabs at Nostalgia.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLbPJazeDh4

This video is too kind.

They aren't obsessed with the series Lore themselves, insomuch as they are obsessed with the idea of people being obsessed with it. If I'm not mistaken, SE are likely profiting from many people with untreated mental disabilities who are like, super-obsessed with the Final Fantasy series, and post screeds online, just walls and walls of text you understand, defending their one infinitesimally small and specific viewpoint.

...Good God I'm describing myself and absolutely everyone on every website I go to

SENGULARITY IS UPON US

ERAUQS SI DLROW EHT

Honestly, that one was funny. I can also relate to that.

What's worse, is you can't hide from it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGrxMpJSKtY

Even in the WWE for the love of...

I swear to any Providence that might be watching the Universe that it'll be everywhere in the future.

Though, I'd love to see an infomercial about Cloud Strife brand cutlery, or Wakka's hair gel.

--------------------

"So, are you a fan of the Fett?"

"Nah, I'm more of a Star Wars guy."

Quote (Spooniest @ 13th January 2016 11:49)

Quote (chevleclair @ 16th December 2015 21:47)

I'm one of the number of people that have become disillusioned by Squenix's recent content. More often than not, I find myself standing there, hands out, trying to figure out just what in blue blazes happened to one of my favorite gaming developers/publishers.

The following video reflected what I've seen lately. That, and the combination of desperate stabs at Nostalgia.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLbPJazeDh4

This video is too kind.

They aren't obsessed with the series Lore themselves, insomuch as they are obsessed with the idea of people being obsessed with it. If I'm not mistaken, SE are likely profiting from many people with untreated mental disabilities who are like, super-obsessed with the Final Fantasy series, and post screeds online, just walls and walls of text you understand, defending their one infinitesimally small and specific viewpoint.

...Good God I'm describing myself and absolutely everyone on every website I go to

SENGULARITY IS UPON US

ERAUQS SI DLROW EHT

Enix cares if it loses money, so of course they care if people are addicted to their game.Its possible we will see enix make another port of ff6 of better quality since some people were complaining about the remake, and who knows how ff7 remake is going to be received.

I think though they would only be willing to change their formula to more westernized for other cultures if it were to fail, and we do see some more westernized attempts.Look at all the black characters in games:This is an attempt to gain interest from western culture.You can even see cid from ff7 being a westernized character, as well as Barrett and sazh from FFXIII.

Enix experiments a lot and sometimes they go too far and sometimes not far enough.We can see these extremes in FFX and FFXII and XIII.I am actually glad enix experiments, even if they get it wrong.I get the impression that the tales series company doesn't experiment much compared to the amount of times enix did.Just look at the extremes from experimenting:Ff8 anyone?

On the other hand I do long for returning to the roots chevlair.ff9 was a good start and I'm hoping to see more before I die or become too old and disillusioned.I think enix could learn a lot from past titles like 4 5 6 7 tactics 9, and even the less popular like 8 XIII and 2 and 3 on nes.

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 14th January 2016 15:38)

I get the impression that the tales series company doesn't experiment much compared to the amount of times enix did.Just look at the extremes from experimenting:Ff8 anyone?

I think enix could learn a lot from past titles like 4 5 6 7 tactics 9, and even the less popular like 8 XIII and 2 and 3 on nes.

Enix did not have a hand in Final Fantasy VIII.
I swear.

Plus what's wrong with Final Fantasy VIII? Besides the setting being 'too futuristic' whatever that means, as long as the fantasy elements are there I don't see the problem.

This post has been edited by Pooka on 14th January 2016 17:11

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I am Exdeath. Step aside pesky clowns, or your warranty is Void!

Quote (Pooka @ 14th January 2016 13:10)

Plus what's wrong with Final Fantasy VIII? Besides the setting being 'too futuristic' whatever that means, as long as the fantasy elements are there I don't see the problem.

Well, there are many things wrong with FFVIII, but not that it was experimental.

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Praise Be To Helix!

There's many more things right with VIII so....yeah.

Viii isn't that bad a game. It's just that it toys with the gameplay formula a little too liberally.

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X is blue.

Quote (Spooniest @ 14th January 2016 19:20)

Viii isn't that bad a game. It's just that it toys with the gameplay formula a little too liberally.

I don't think it is either. It has some annoying elements, but if you can get past them it is worth the experience.

I'm sorry about bringing the topic around to FFVIII but I think that it proves a point that I've made repeatedly here. I've said this before on this forum on threads that were similar to this one: when people talk about Square Enix's or Final Fantasy's decline it's a bit laughable.

First, even if their recent FF games have been declining in quality, you're still only talking about, at most, two games. And of those two games (FFXII and FFXIII to be precise) I've honestly heard about as mixed of a reaction as I can recall for any two video games in history. I have heard an equal number of people speak positively and negatively about both. That's not much of a decline in my opinion, especially if you bring into the discussion the MMOs, which are getting better, as the video noted.

Second, if XII and XIII represent a decline in quality, that's less about how bad those games are and more about the greatness that preceded them. Can it be denied by anyone that FFIV-FFX (1991-2001) was perhaps the best ten-year stretch for any game publisher in history? Especially if you include CT and Tactics, that span includes some of the greatest games ever created, of which you can basically take your pick. I can make a legitimate argument for FFVI being the best game ever; others have made compelling arguments for CT and FFVII; and despite this, still I see people rank FFIV, IX, or X as their favorite FF over them, or heap praise on Tactics.

That brings me to FFVIII, a game I'd consider in the good-not-great category, that happens to be right in the middle of those all-time classics. For any other franchise, under any other company, it would have gotten nothing but praise despite its flaws. But because of its name, and the games it followed, its bar was set so unfairly high that it's had to weather a lot of stuff. But you've got to remember: making a great game isn't easy, and most of the time you're gonna fail, even if you're a great designer. It's like Squenix is Jordan on a few off nights: he's not always gonna win, but I wouldn't bet against 'em too much.

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Praise Be To Helix!

One might say that it had to be ultra experimental to be able to follow the act that was IV-VII.

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X is blue.

Blitz FFXIII includes FFXIII-2 and lightning returns.Ffx includes FFX-2 and I heard some bad comments on FFXIV.Wether the online game at first wasn't that good or not I do not know.

I also want to point out how ridiculous ff8 story was.
The whole villain was a cliche of s comic book and some of the story parts were just ridiculous to the extreme.The orphans thing is so ridiculous it's laughable at how coincidental it is.The eyes on me scene on the ship with rinoa is also laughable as we see few scenes, but overall I enjoyed it for what it was:A ridiculous yet entertaining game.I can't take ff8 seriously at all, so I act as if it was deliberately trying to make me laugh, like a really bad movie that is so bad it becomes a classic, like the room.

This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 15th January 2016 10:37

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

VIII is a far cry fro bad or whatever. The gameplay may vary to your mileage, but other than that, it had a lot of the good in the series.

I liked the gameplay however. Having 100 casts of Ultima and 100 casts of Curaga and 100 casts of Full-Life without being limited to 999MB was such a great change, along with the Junction system. However, I feel that Dyanmic Threads might talk better about the game than I can, most probably the story, so I'll leave that to him.

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I am Exdeath. Step aside pesky clowns, or your warranty is Void!

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 15th January 2016 10:34)

The eyes on me scene on the ship with rinoa is also laughable

How so?

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 15th January 2016 06:34)

Blitz FFXIII includes FFXIII-2 and lightning returns.Ffx includes FFX-2 and I heard some bad comments on FFXIV.Wether the online game at first wasn't that good or not I do not know.

And the Zelda CDI games are also included in the Legend of Zelda franchise. Sometimes there are bad games in great franchises, and sometimes there are mediocre games that follow classics. Why can't X-2 be considered an aberration or a misstep? Why can't we call XII and XIII good, but not great?

Quote (Magitek_slayer)

I also want to point out how ridiculous ff8 story was.
The whole villain was a cliche of s comic book and some of the story parts were just ridiculous to the extreme.The orphans thing is so ridiculous it's laughable at how coincidental it is.The eyes on me scene on the ship with rinoa is also laughable as we see few scenes, but overall I enjoyed it for what it was:A ridiculous yet entertaining game.I can't take ff8 seriously at all, so I act as if it was deliberately trying to make me laugh, like a really bad movie that is so bad it becomes a classic, like the room.

It had moments when I thought it was silly, but most of it was due to the writing and some of the characters and not the story. The scenes with Rinoa were excellent, perhaps the highlight of the game.

I would agree that, relative to the other FF casts, FFVIII's was weak. And it took me a long time to get into it. But once I did it was worth it. The problem is that we were spoiled with the fun and joy, the playfulness and banter of the FFVI and FFVII casts, and it was missing from FFVIII's cast. Now, the best part of the game was the Laguna portion of the storyline, which I believe did have a bit of the FFVI/VII energy between the characters.

But doesn't that all prove our point? They made one "lesser" game, and then what happened? FFIX and _______! And then FFX! And then Kingdom Hearts! And as we've seen with other franchises, transitions due to technology and changing gameplay styles can be difficult. Take a look at almost every other platformer except Mario with their transition into 3D. Well, Final Fantasy and Squenix are having to deal not only with changing tech, but also a shift in RPG gameplay styles.

I'd say, with the difficulty of that transition, they're actually doing a great job.

Edit

I just "remembered" that Tactics came out before FFVIII... whoops... Point still stands though.

This post has been edited by BlitzSage on 15th January 2016 21:23

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Praise Be To Helix!