Pokemon GO!

Posted: 12th July 2016 20:54

*
Engineer
Posts: 436

Joined: 3/9/2002

Awards:
Major involvement in the Final Fantasy IX section of CoN. Vital involvement in the Final Fantasy VI section of CoN. Participated at the forums for the CoN's 15th birthday! Vital involvement in the Final Fantasy V section of CoN. 
Member of more than five years. Member of more than ten years. 
Come on, many of you must have downloaded it by now! I was a little late to download considering my love of the original games, but after downloading it close to midnight last night I found myself running outside and down the street to visit a Pokéstop just to see what it was all about. I'm sure I will be wondering why the hell I did that once I'm better at this, but in the meantime: wheee!

To outsiders it probably just looks the same as it always does: a bunch of idiots walking around staring at their phone, oblivious to the world. But you guys know the truth and recognize the patterns and stops, maybe people doing the exact same thing at the exact same spots you just visited. I know when I walked the mall today there were at least a dozen others visiting all the Pokéstops.

Even my fiancé wants in on this and she doesn't even know the names of the starter choices, but is interested due to the word of mouth from her coworkers and all of the funny stories being told about it.

Are you partaking? Meet anyone along the way yet? Or maybe you want to share an incredibly frustrating story involving server issues when you were just about to get your first Growlithe, or the battle for a gym? Tell me all about it!
Post #211037
Top
Posted: 13th July 2016 18:10

*
Omega Weapon
Posts: 4,837

Joined: 31/10/2003

Awards:
Voted for all the fanart in the CoNvent Calendar 2015. Voted for all the fanart in the CoNvent Calendar 2014. User has rated 75 fanarts in the CoN galleries. Member of more than ten years. 
Contributed to the Final Fantasy VI section of CoN. User has rated 25 fanarts in the CoN galleries. Member of more than five years. 
This sounds a little like the Pokémon MMORPG idea I proposed a long time ago and I'm quite curious about it.

I haven't downloaded it on my phone though because I don't hugely like having stuff like this on my phone, and also sometimes my range of geographic movement can be a little limited (as it is at the moment).

Besides, though, I'm already playing a Pokémon game at the moment (and by that I mean I am taking it pretty seriously, with intention to complete) -- Pokémon Crystal Version Emu Edition.

--------------------
It Just Bugs Me! - a place to discuss media, real life, and other topics.
Post #211040
Top
Posted: 13th July 2016 22:54

*
Cactuar
Posts: 231

Joined: 26/5/2015


I honestly had no interest when they announced it, even less than no interest when beta footage got released and now that all the stories of people getting robbed and hurt while playing... Too funny.

I think the animations look stiff, the interface clunky and the overall product to be "Meh".

That said I have not tried playing it, but I think it looks like shite.

-BUT-

I am one of the BIGGEST Pokemon fans you will ever meet. I was still playing my GBC and Pokemon Crystal up until a few years ago when a young lass "borrowed" it from me. Permanently.

But all the while I played through the GBC version, I also
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
downloaded ROMs
of all the new games as they came out and played them furiously on my PC. I even played my GBC while I played Pokemon on an emulator.

I still collected the card up until a few years ago too, when my collection was lost during a move. I still mourn over the loss of my TCG collection.

I have a working script for a Pokemon movie based on actual Pokemon lore
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
(they came from space!)
and theories that will never even get considered for film ahahaha.

I made this clay sculpture of Dunsparce in 2011:

user posted image

And I cried at the end of the first Pokemon movie.

I still play Pokemon constantly, I have caught 2 shiny Dunsparce, a shiny Smeargle and a shiny Octillery. I am the proud owner of a BLACK Charizard in XY;ORAS.

Anyway. I have no idea why and I haven't played it but think Pokemon Go sucks and I won't play it, almost 100%.

BUT, in closing I will say that although people are taking it to extreme levels of retardation:

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0...e72&oe=57F85C62

and it isn't even fake because:

http://www.whec.com/news/pokemon-go-crash-...w-york/4198391/

I think it's great that it's actually getting people outside, which was Nintendo's original intent, I think.

But then this happens, too:

https://pedestrian.tv/news/arts-and-culture...9e1ac97b279.htm

--------------------
Post #211043
Top
Posted: 14th July 2016 14:41

*
Magitek Soldier
Posts: 317

Joined: 26/4/2007

Awards:
Member of more than five years. User has rated 300 fanarts in the CoN galleries. User has rated 150 fanarts in the CoN galleries. User has rated 75 fanarts in the CoN galleries. 
User has rated 25 fanarts in the CoN galleries. 
I wasn't at first but both my sister and roommate keep showing me stuff about it and my nerd buddy at work talks nonstop about it. So I might give it a shot now. I'm curious as to how the game will look a few months from when its had a few updates. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping it'll improve. I guess only time will tell.

--------------------
He's Back. He is The_TrueBOSS.
Check me and my partners out at: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheTrueBOSSofJupiter
Post #211044
Top
Posted: 14th July 2016 17:06

*
Cactuar
Posts: 255

Joined: 24/4/2011

Awards:
Contributor to the Final Fantasy IX section of CoN. Second place in the CoN Euro Cup soccer competition, 2016. Member of more than five years. Second place in the CoN World Cup fantasy game for 2014. 
User has rated 75 fanarts in the CoN galleries. Contributed to the Final Fantasy VI section of CoN. Participated at the forums for the CoN's 15th birthday! User has rated 25 fanarts in the CoN galleries. 
See More (Total 9)
Quote (Dynamic Threads @ 13th July 2016 23:54)
That said I have not tried playing it, but I think it looks like shite.

-BUT-

I am one of the BIGGEST Pokemon fans you will ever meet. I was still playing my GBC and Pokemon Crystal up until a few years ago when a young lass "borrowed" it from me. Permanently.

...

Anyway. I have no idea why and I haven't played it but think Pokemon Go sucks and I won't play it, almost 100%.

I'm sorry, but you're an utter moron.

Criticising something and stating that you almost 100% won't play it when you have no idea why and have not tried it is just silly. It's even sillier when the game in question is free to play - you have literally nothing to lose by giving it a try.

If you're as big a Pokémon fan as you say, you would love this game. No, the graphics aren't anything special. No, the game isn't perfect and no, the servers aren't anywhere near capable of handling the demand at present. Yes, it's a pretty minimal 'game', even as far as mobile games are concerned these days. However, the experience brings as close to life as possible (to date) everything every 20-something Pokémon fan has dreamed of since 1998-9. Walking round with AR on, hunting down and catching a wild Pokémon that you find in the actual park near your house is a magical, childish experience.

It's silly, it's brilliant, and you're an idiot for dismissing it in the way you have.

This post has been edited by Stiltzkin on 14th July 2016 17:08

--------------------
We apologise for the inconvenience
Post #211050
Top
Posted: 14th July 2016 18:28

Group Icon
Totes Adorbs
Posts: 8,344

Joined: 31/7/1997

Awards:
Vital involvement in the Final Fantasy IX section of CoN. First place in the CoN Euro Cup soccer competition, 2016. Voted for all the fanart in the CoNvent Calendar 2015. Voted for all the fanart in the CoNvent Calendar 2014. 
Third place in the CoN World Cup fantasy game for 2014. User has rated 150 fanarts in the CoN galleries. Third place in CoNCAA, 2014. Participated at the forums for the CoN's 15th birthday! 
See More (Total 26)
I have never played a Pokemon game beyond Snap. And, really, I'm not playing this all that much either, but I am finding it really fun to do with my daughter and it does make leaving the house a bit less boring, like when I'm just tagging along when my wife's doing something that doesn't grab my attention.

I don't know that I'll stick with this all that long, because I'm just not much of a gamer on my phone for any reason. But I think it's a really clever use of the IP, and I hope they make good money off of it for a while until the novelty wears off.

--------------------
"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?
Post #211055
Top
Posted: 14th July 2016 22:29

*
Crusader
Posts: 1,460

Joined: 18/1/2001

Awards:
First place in CoNCAA, 2015. First place in CoNCAA, 2013. First place in CoNCAA, 2012. Member of more than ten years. 
Member of more than five years. Third place in CoNCAA, 2004. First place in CoN Fantasy Football, 2003. Vital involvement in the Final Fantasy IV section of CoN. 
See More (Total 9)
I just downloaded it, but found that, like every other new video game that has come out in the last few years, I simply don't have the spare time to dedicate to it in between responsibilities of home, work, and social lives. Being an adult sucks sometimes. I realize there isn't much to it and it can be played at any leisure, and i will certainly give it the old college try.

I'm split on the concept of the game. On the one hand, people stare down at their phones enough as it is, and this would only seem to contribute to the phone glued to hand society we are becoming. But on the other hand, the format is revolutionary. It's getting gamers off their couches and into the streets fully immersing players into a new way of gaming. No other game makes you feel more involved than actually walking through tall grass to catch invisible monsters. I hope we see better updates and more games use the outside world to their advantage in the near future.
Post #211056
Top
Posted: 15th July 2016 05:53

*
Holy Swordsman
Posts: 2,059

Joined: 5/3/2001

Awards:
Contributed to the Final Fantasy VI section of CoN. Participated at the forums for the CoN's 15th birthday! Second place in CoN European Cup fantasy game for 2011-2012. Contributed to the Final Fantasy V section of CoN. 
Second place in CoN Barclay's Premier League fantasy game for 2010-2011. Member of more than ten years. Member of more than five years. First place in CoN Fantasy Football, 2008. 
See More (Total 9)
The fact that this game has managed to get so many people up and out is astonishing. The simplicity of the game tied in with the overwhelmingly positive social experience that comes with picking teams, grouping up around pokeshops and lure points, battling for control of gyms and exploring your neighbourhoods in search of that elusive pokemon is truly something else. Stiltz hit it on the head. I'm 29 years old and, granted, I've never been mature or responsible or at all adult-like, but there is something truly surreal about being able to run into the park near my house and catch a goddamn Psyduck after fighting off endless hordes of zubats. Of course there would be endless zubats.

There's also something heart-warming about children now experiencing through this app the kind of thing I could have only dreamed about when I was their age, burning through endless batteries on my grey brick gameboy trying to be a Pokemaster.



--------------------
[[SIZE=1]
Okay... but there was a goat!
Post #211057
Top
Posted: 15th July 2016 12:44

*
Engineer
Posts: 436

Joined: 3/9/2002

Awards:
Major involvement in the Final Fantasy IX section of CoN. Vital involvement in the Final Fantasy VI section of CoN. Participated at the forums for the CoN's 15th birthday! Vital involvement in the Final Fantasy V section of CoN. 
Member of more than five years. Member of more than ten years. 
Interesting (to me) to note that crash that happened in Auburn NY and made headlines happened only about 25 miles from me, and a lot of people I know that live or have lived in Auburn are amused at the way Auburn has finally made national news.

I agree with Stiltz and Dragon_Fire here. For all it has wrong going with it at present, I have never seen such an overnight phenomenon like this on a phone application. The realization hit me big time yesterday, when my brother, 33, started talking about the game and asking me which gym I joined. The only game he played in the series was Pokemon Red, once when he was 14 or so, and he never bothered with anything like it again...until now. He has even admitted it's crazy he's back catching the same Pokemon he did back then, and he is showing it to his young son who enjoys it as well.

I live near the center of town so it is only a short distance for me to get to 3 gyms and 6-8 Pokestops, and I will say this: I have spent more time in the park in the last week than I have been in the last 2 years combined. Yesterday just happened to be a farmer's market day (God I feel SO old saying that) so I walked to the park which has a somewhat large group of people hanging by a Pokestop with a Lure activated. I bought some stuff, went home, decided 4-5 hours later to walk around the area again, and that SAME group was still there, talking about taking down the gym.

Pretty incredible. This game may be a fad and when summer winds down people may lose interest (or not!), but regardless, what this game has accomplished in so short a time deserves to be recognized, and it goes without saying that game developers (along with eeeeeverybody else) are taking notice.

*Ahem* Go Team Mystic.
Post #211058
Top
Posted: 15th July 2016 21:46

*
Cactuar
Posts: 231

Joined: 26/5/2015


Quote (Stiltzkin @ 14th July 2016 12:06)


I'm sorry, but you're an utter moron.

Criticising something and stating that you almost 100% won't play it when you have no idea why and have not tried it is just silly. It's even sillier when the game in question is free to play - you have literally nothing to lose by giving it a try.

If you're as big a Pokémon fan as you say, you would love this game. No, the graphics aren't anything special. No, the game isn't perfect and no, the servers aren't anywhere near capable of handling the demand at present. Yes, it's a pretty minimal 'game', even as far as mobile games are concerned these days. However, the experience brings as close to life as possible (to date) everything every 20-something Pokémon fan has dreamed of since 1998-9. Walking round with AR on, hunting down and catching a wild Pokémon that you find in the actual park near your house is a magical, childish experience.

It's silly, it's brilliant, and you're an idiot for dismissing it in the way you have
.



Bold #1: I'm not sure how to address this, as it was completely uncalled for.

Bold #2: This statement couldn't be more false. I know there are a lot of Pokemon "purists" on the internet who refuse to acknowledge the games AFTER the original ones. People who refuse to play anything but the game with the original 151. I even know some people who feel this way. I don't watch the movies or the show, so does that mean they and I are not as big of fan as we claim? Nice logic there.

Bold #3: I do not "dream" of catching Pokemon. I would love it if they were real. But Pokemon Go! is the equivalent of a flesh-light or a dildo. Yeah it feels nice, but it isn't the real thing. Sorry, I don't like sex toys, I like actual sex. And the idea of walking around "catching" Pokemon that are stiff-looking, locked in place statues essentially, doesn't do the trick for me. Maybe if they make a Pokemon game on a VR headset, I'll be interested. But augmented reality? I just don't think holding a phone up in the air trying to line the camera up and hit the screen to throw a ball is very fun.

Bold #4: Again, this was not necessary. It turns out I have tried the game on a friend's phone since the post and still think it's crap. So, I have an opinion and know what I like. And I don't like having to hold a phone square to my face to catch a Pokemon that stands there like an idiot waiting for me to catch it, not to mention I don't even have to battle it. It goes against everything you learn about catching Pokemon in the handheld games.


Listen, I don't know what personal investment you have in the game, but you need to get over yourself.

I already stated I think it's a great idea and I like that people are getting off their fat asses and going outside. But if the lot of you don't find time to go to the park, or outside in general and claim this game has helped you, well, you have issues with agoraphobia maybe?

This doesn't solve young people being glued to their phones, in fact, has been quite the population control so far as well. So what I find to be the biggest flaw in today's first world society, people's faces in their phones constantly, is an even bigger flaw because of an overnight phenomenon. Which is pretty ground-breaking; I haven't denied it. And I'm glad this has pretty much saved Nintendo from bankruptcy. I love Nintendo games, but I don't have to love all of them. In fact, I hate Zelda games. Am I an utter moron for not liking Zelda, even though I haven't played every single one of them to know that I might not hate of of them? And I don't. I enjoyed the Wind Waker, which is pretty much considered to be one of the weaker entries in the series. Guess I'm an idiot for dismissing all the other ones?

I'm glad so many people like it, but I don't have to and I am entitled to my opinion, one I have put a lot of thought into. I think the game, and mobile gaming in general, is crap. Some people enjoy it and I'm glad for them, but I don't have to and I don't.

GFY.

This post has been edited by Dynamic Threads on 15th July 2016 22:07

--------------------
Post #211061
Top
Posted: 16th July 2016 14:02

*
Cactuar
Posts: 231

Joined: 26/5/2015


https://player.vimeo.com/video/174821377


This is a Central Park STAMPEDE last night in NYC.

Why would something like this make you smile?

While Turkey erupts into a false coup, beheads 19 year old military kids, serving their MANDATORY military service after grade-school

African-American Men are being killed, nay, EXECUTED by the dozens by over-armed Police in America

A semi-truck, driven by an Islamist, barrels through a crowd of French people celebrating what was basically their Independence Day, killing 84 and injuring many more

These absolute MORONS are still face-stuck in their phone. Escapist, selfish idiots who ignore, even refuse to acknowledge or do anything about the injustices going on right in front of them and around the world.

This is called ESCAPISM. It reached it's previous peak around the time the Wizard of Oz was released in 1939 (escapism at it's finest!), post-WWI, pre-American involvement in WWII.

So, Stiltzken, I am an UTTER MORON for not liking this game, and having my own reasons, and an Idiot for dismissing it the way I am?

Like I said, I put a lot of thought into it, and I really didn't want to go onto a rant about it but seriously. It's one thing to play some videogames in your own home for a few hours a day. It's another to be a mob-mentality, pack-following, mindless UTTER MORON; The type who storms Central Park by the thousands in the middle of the night to catch ONE stationary, fake Vaporeon.

But feel free to continue ignoring larger issues in the world.

It's one thing for children to be playing this furiously, but the hundreds of thousands of young adults who absolutely REFUSE to grow up have no excuse.

Probably the same people who thought Bernie Sanders could become President and wouldn't end up endorsing Clinton and becoming her VP to whet the appetite of ignoramuses, who don't realise the whole election system is a sham (even after the Gore/Bush election! good lord), a farce on the highest level.

; )

This post has been edited by Dynamic Threads on 16th July 2016 14:11

--------------------
Post #211062
Top
Posted: 17th July 2016 01:01

*
Engineer
Posts: 436

Joined: 3/9/2002

Awards:
Major involvement in the Final Fantasy IX section of CoN. Vital involvement in the Final Fantasy VI section of CoN. Participated at the forums for the CoN's 15th birthday! Vital involvement in the Final Fantasy V section of CoN. 
Member of more than five years. Member of more than ten years. 
While I appreciate the opinions on the subject of Pokemon Go and everyone is free to like or dislike it (say whatever you want about it here, I know it doesn't float everyone's boat!), it is highly unfair to equate this game to the masses not caring about the larger issues of the world. People are more than capable of feeling, thinking, and caring about other issues while also capable of playing games, living their lives, and everything else.

It is completely great for you to have the opinions you have, but please keep your opinions about the state of the world for other topics that relate to it, or create your own thread about it. I would rather not this devolve into bickering over something completely unrelated. And yes, Pokemon Go players are a separate, non-related issue to the problems in Turkey, France, Police profiling, and other world issues.
Post #211068
Top
Posted: 17th July 2016 09:51

*
Cactuar
Posts: 255

Joined: 24/4/2011

Awards:
Contributor to the Final Fantasy IX section of CoN. Second place in the CoN Euro Cup soccer competition, 2016. Member of more than five years. Second place in the CoN World Cup fantasy game for 2014. 
User has rated 75 fanarts in the CoN galleries. Contributed to the Final Fantasy VI section of CoN. Participated at the forums for the CoN's 15th birthday! User has rated 25 fanarts in the CoN galleries. 
See More (Total 9)
Quote (Dynamic Threads @ 16th July 2016 15:02)
So, Stiltzken, I am an UTTER MORON for not liking this game, and having my own reasons, and an Idiot for dismissing it the way I am?

It's one thing for children to be playing this furiously, but the hundreds of thousands of young adults who absolutely REFUSE to grow up have no excuse.

Okay, DT. You don't like Pokémon Go. I think everybody knows this. I think everybody outside of CoN probably knows this by now too. Please do us all a favour and calm down.

DT, you are doing what you seem to do fairly often on these fora - presenting a zealous, dogmatic rhetoric which devolves into tangential arguments as soon as your initial premise is challenged. It isn't big or clever, and whilst it makes it largely impossible to argue against you, it doesn't mean you are right.

For the record, I did not call you an utter moron and an idiot just for disliking this game. I would never insult somebody purely because their opinion differs to mine. I called you these things because you purported to be an avid Pokémon fan, yet had dismissed this game without ever trying it. Even more so, you were actively railing against it with a passion. You had a preconception before you came to this game and this conversation and nothing was ever going to change your mind. That is foolish, and I feel sad for you.

TheEvilEye is correct - you are entitled to your opinions about this game (as are we all), but it isn't appropriate to divert the thread onto issues of global politics or to make such allegations against people.

Oh, and it's Stiltzkin. If you're gonna call me out directly, have the decency to get my name right. Ta very much.



TL;DR?

Wind your neck in, calm the f*** down, and stop babbling vitriolic, inane shite at everybody. Thank you.

I won't respond again, because I don't want to divert and disrupt this topic any more than I've already helped to do. I respect your decision to dislike this game, please respect our decisions to like it.

This post has been edited by Stiltzkin on 17th July 2016 09:57

--------------------
We apologise for the inconvenience
Post #211069
Top
Posted: 17th July 2016 14:30

*
Cactuar
Posts: 231

Joined: 26/5/2015


Quote (Stiltzkin @ 17th July 2016 04:51)
Quote (Dynamic Threads @ 16th July 2016 15:02)
So, Stiltzken, I am an UTTER MORON for not liking this game, and having my own reasons, and an Idiot for dismissing it the way I am?

It's one thing for children to be playing this furiously, but the hundreds of thousands of young adults who absolutely REFUSE to grow up have no excuse.

Okay, DT. You don't like Pokémon Go. I think everybody knows this. I think everybody outside of CoN probably knows this by now too. Please do us all a favour and calm down.

DT, you are doing what you seem to do fairly often on these fora - presenting a zealous, dogmatic rhetoric which devolves into tangential arguments as soon as your initial premise is challenged. It isn't big or clever, and whilst it makes it largely impossible to argue against you, it doesn't mean you are right.

For the record, I did not call you an utter moron and an idiot just for disliking this game. I would never insult somebody purely because their opinion differs to mine. I called you these things because you purported to be an avid Pokémon fan, yet had dismissed this game without ever trying it. Even more so, you were actively railing against it with a passion. You had a preconception before you came to this game and this conversation and nothing was ever going to change your mind. That is foolish, and I feel sad for you.

TheEvilEye is correct - you are entitled to your opinions about this game (as are we all), but it isn't appropriate to divert the thread onto issues of global politics or to make such allegations against people.

Oh, and it's Stiltzkin. If you're gonna call me out directly, have the decency to get my name right. Ta very much.



TL;DR?

Wind your neck in, calm the f*** down, and stop babbling vitriolic, inane shite at everybody. Thank you.

I won't respond again, because I don't want to divert and disrupt this topic any more than I've already helped to do. I respect your decision to dislike this game, please respect our decisions to like it.


So you call me an utter moron, and an idiot and then tell me to "calm down"?

Well, you sure showed me, internet tough guy.

And I do indeed think Pokemon Go is a microcosm of what's wrong with our society in general. You have COLLEGE PROFESSORS arguing about the game instead of world issues. That's when it's no longer funny.

My opinions on the matter have warrant. Yours however are

"The game is fun!"

"Errybody have dreamed of this!"

"It's a phenomenon!"

So okay. You're mad because this dead forum has some activity for discussion but think so highly of yourself, you can hurl insults that are justified in your own mind.

Right. Peace out. Not my job to lower my brain to this level.

And when you do hurl insults, I have no inclination to respect your opinion. Develop some social skills, but then, you wouldn't be posting on a dead forum calling people utter morons for passionately disliking an augmented reality game. Yes, I formed an opinion on something after droves of research, and didn't have to try it to know I wasn't going to like it. That's called knowing yourself and what you like. Doing your research.

So what, the game is free. You know what isn't? My time. And time is money. So, yes, this games costs money, in a way.

There is nothing foolish or sad about determining before trying this product that I wasn't going to like it. Again, I know what I like for the most part and I knew I wasn't going to like this game.

What's sad is your rhetoric. Ending an argument that had no merit and justifying insults.

And I would not have diverted this thread had you not chosen to hurl insults and accusations in the first place.

It isn't about being right and if you think that was my intention, you are projecting insecurities across the internet. And that is very pathetic.

So while Pokemon Go! hacks all of your data from people's phones, including e-mail, photos, location and anything else you have stored on there, feel free to gather in large numbers of stupid, lonely people.

All they need to do is put a Charmander in a Volcano, or a Squirtle in Ol' Faithful. How about a MewTwo in P'yongyang.

Excuse me for trying to engage people, though, in this thread especially that wasn't my intention, where I thought we were entitled to an opinion, your gut reaction was to attack me and call out on me without even considering that I put a lot of research into my opinion and also felt it necessary to inform that I play Pokemon every single day, make clay sculptures of obscure Pokemon and constantly seek out any new information regarding Pokemon.

Yeah, instead of asking me why I feel so passionately about the subject, you hurl insults and later justify them.

Then have the audacity to call me sad?

This post has been edited by Dynamic Threads on 17th July 2016 15:03

--------------------
Post #211070
Top
Posted: 17th July 2016 14:38

*
Cactuar
Posts: 231

Joined: 26/5/2015


Quote (TheEvilEye @ 16th July 2016 20:01)
While I appreciate the opinions on the subject of Pokemon Go and everyone is free to like or dislike it (say whatever you want about it here, I know it doesn't float everyone's boat!), it is highly unfair to equate this game to the masses not caring about the larger issues of the world.  People are more than capable of feeling, thinking, and caring about other issues while also capable of playing games, living their lives, and everything else.

It is completely great for you to have the opinions you have, but please keep your opinions about the state of the world for other topics that relate to it, or create your own thread about it.  I would rather not this devolve into bickering over something completely unrelated. And yes, Pokemon Go players are a separate, non-related issue to the problems in Turkey, France, Police profiling, and other world issues.



I don't think it is highly unfair to relate, not equate, this game to the masses of millennials who very clearly are living in a delusional state of ignorance. You over-estimate 'people', which is wonderfully naive. And that isn't an insult. I'm glad you can so easily defend people you don't know and seem to think highly of them as a whole.

So, I apologize for getting the topic off track but if I came flying in here calling you a moron for liking the game and all the while, justifying my insults and trying to make the argument about right or wrong, while never asking you why you liked the game so much, would you not have been upset?

And I still don't see anyone offering a substantial reason for liking the game. Other than it's fun. Which is great. It's okay to have fun with it. But that doesn't mean the game itself is good (it isn't) or that this phenomenon, as it's being called, is anything more than mostly lonely, irresponsible young adults who haven't gotten over their traumatic childhood experiences.

And I will flat out say that yes, especially millennials, are incapable of thinking about issues in the world while playing videogames, since that is whole reason behind videogames or other mediums of entertainment. Escapism. It is to forget about the issues happening right in front of us.

Why I am worked up about Pokemon Go! is that it has taken it to the next level. This is death of Western Culture. Our government is PRAISING the Islamists in Turkey right now for restoring a non-existent Democracy.

But there is a Farfetch'd at my local Wal-Mart, so I gotta go.

This post has been edited by Dynamic Threads on 17th July 2016 15:08

--------------------
Post #211071
Top
Posted: 17th July 2016 15:28

*
Magitek Soldier
Posts: 317

Joined: 26/4/2007

Awards:
Member of more than five years. User has rated 300 fanarts in the CoN galleries. User has rated 150 fanarts in the CoN galleries. User has rated 75 fanarts in the CoN galleries. 
User has rated 25 fanarts in the CoN galleries. 
While playing this game and talking to people playing this game. I've made note of 2 points that I really like about this game. 1) Its pretty easy to pick up and given a lot of people a bonding experience with someone they care about. whether it be their significant other, kids, or old friends that have started drifting apart. 2) I've been learning about hidden gems in the neighborhoods of my hometown that i doubt anyone really knew where there. Like hidden historic monuments or parks i had no idea where nearby. Ive also found it quite entertaining to see what has and hasn't been marked as a pokestop or gym.

I'm crossing my fingers that this game will be vastly improved on in future updates. Battling for instance sucks as it stands right now. Having to go to and sit at a gym is very annoying. It's not an amazing game. But man it could have been a lot worse.

--------------------
He's Back. He is The_TrueBOSS.
Check me and my partners out at: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheTrueBOSSofJupiter
Post #211072
Top
Posted: 23rd July 2016 05:42

*
Holy Swordsman
Posts: 2,059

Joined: 5/3/2001

Awards:
Contributed to the Final Fantasy VI section of CoN. Participated at the forums for the CoN's 15th birthday! Second place in CoN European Cup fantasy game for 2011-2012. Contributed to the Final Fantasy V section of CoN. 
Second place in CoN Barclay's Premier League fantasy game for 2010-2011. Member of more than ten years. Member of more than five years. First place in CoN Fantasy Football, 2008. 
See More (Total 9)
Quote (Dynamic Threads @ 17th July 2016 10:38)
Quote (TheEvilEye @ 16th July 2016 20:01)
While I appreciate the opinions on the subject of Pokemon Go and everyone is free to like or dislike it (say whatever you want about it here, I know it doesn't float everyone's boat!), it is highly unfair to equate this game to the masses not caring about the larger issues of the world.  People are more than capable of feeling, thinking, and caring about other issues while also capable of playing games, living their lives, and everything else.

It is completely great for you to have the opinions you have, but please keep your opinions about the state of the world for other topics that relate to it, or create your own thread about it.  I would rather not this devolve into bickering over something completely unrelated. And yes, Pokemon Go players are a separate, non-related issue to the problems in Turkey, France, Police profiling, and other world issues.



I don't think it is highly unfair to relate, not equate, this game to the masses of millennials who very clearly are living in a delusional state of ignorance. You over-estimate 'people', which is wonderfully naive. And that isn't an insult. I'm glad you can so easily defend people you don't know and seem to think highly of them as a whole.

So, I apologize for getting the topic off track but if I came flying in here calling you a moron for liking the game and all the while, justifying my insults and trying to make the argument about right or wrong, while never asking you why you liked the game so much, would you not have been upset?

And I still don't see anyone offering a substantial reason for liking the game. Other than it's fun. Which is great. It's okay to have fun with it. But that doesn't mean the game itself is good (it isn't) or that this phenomenon, as it's being called, is anything more than mostly lonely, irresponsible young adults who haven't gotten over their traumatic childhood experiences.

And I will flat out say that yes, especially millennials, are incapable of thinking about issues in the world while playing videogames, since that is whole reason behind videogames or other mediums of entertainment. Escapism. It is to forget about the issues happening right in front of us.

Why I am worked up about Pokemon Go! is that it has taken it to the next level. This is death of Western Culture. Our government is PRAISING the Islamists in Turkey right now for restoring a non-existent Democracy.

But there is a Farfetch'd at my local Wal-Mart, so I gotta go.

Wow, aren't you the enlightened beacon of virtue! Truly the last bastion of sanity and intellect in this vast sea of ignoramuses. A paragon of what could be amongst us ghosts on this dead forum! Whenever it is that you should deign to come down from your lofty perch again and grace us delusional, ignorant millennials with your passionate, well thought out and thoroughly logical insights into the human condition, I humbly request that you accept my meager suggestion:

Stop talking. Your contributions to this dialogue have been little more than non-sequitorial ranting about socio-political issues you clearly can't properly grasp yourself, or you would not be assigning blame to an app for mobile devices for the world's woes. Smarter men than you can and do enjoy silly things while still making more of a difference in the world than your virtual ranting musters. We don't have to offer up any substantial reason for the game to be enjoyable. (which, by the way, is subjective beyond measure and impossible to properly quantify, but of course, you already grasped such basic concepts long ago, great thinker that you are.) Besides, several of us provided reasons already (nostalgia, bonding activity with our children/nieces/nephews, motivation for being active, an interesting social experiment etc.) you just decided to gloss over it in favor of extolling vitriolic bullshit.


ANYWAY. I'm fairly sure I'm reaching the end of my run with this game as it has begun to feel quite a bit like a grind to get any experience now that I've hit level 20 and caught most of the pokemon I've ever had any attachment to. Unless some big update happens that adds trading or a trainer vs trainer real-time battle system, or at the very least, legendary pokemon start showing up, I'm pretty much burnt out already. Especially with the added frustration of the step-locator glitch and how frequently the servers have been overwhelmed for hours at a time. Still, it was a really cool experience to see how many people were willing to group and form hunting parties or hold gyms and draw lines in the sand about who belongs to what team. A bar not too far from where I work is a gym and they offer a free pint to anyone on whichever team holds the gym at midnight on designated nights. I know a lot of businesses around here have leveraged the game to increase their traffic into their stores but this was one of the more brilliant ways to draw a crowd of pokedrunks. It lead to some pretty hilarious Mystic vs Valor drinking games. (We left Instinct out because they're basically the Hufflepuff of Pokemon Go.)




--------------------
[[SIZE=1]
Okay... but there was a goat!
Post #211086
Top
Posted: 23rd July 2016 10:15

*
Cactuar
Posts: 255

Joined: 24/4/2011

Awards:
Contributor to the Final Fantasy IX section of CoN. Second place in the CoN Euro Cup soccer competition, 2016. Member of more than five years. Second place in the CoN World Cup fantasy game for 2014. 
User has rated 75 fanarts in the CoN galleries. Contributed to the Final Fantasy VI section of CoN. Participated at the forums for the CoN's 15th birthday! User has rated 25 fanarts in the CoN galleries. 
See More (Total 9)
Quote (Dragon_Fire @ 23rd July 2016 06:42)
ANYWAY. I'm fairly sure I'm reaching the end of my run with this game as it has begun to feel quite a bit like a grind to get any experience now that I've hit level 20 and caught most of the pokemon I've ever had any attachment to. Unless some big update happens that adds trading or a trainer vs trainer real-time battle system, or at the very least, legendary pokemon start showing up, I'm pretty much burnt out already. Especially with the added frustration of the step-locator glitch and how frequently the servers have been overwhelmed for hours at a time. Still, it was a really cool experience to see how many people were willing to group and form hunting parties or hold gyms and draw lines in the sand about who belongs to what team.

Yeah, I'm hitting the mid-teens now and starting to notice the same issue creeping in. I don't know how much longer I'll keep going, though I would like to nail the 150 just for the completist in me. Given my semi-rural location, I'm also noticing that there's an ever widening level gulf between those players who are city-central and can farm exp from their own sofa and those who have 1 pokestop in a 5 mile radius. With the current gym battle structure, that basically cuts the lower levels out of that aspect of the game as there's simply no competing.

Quote
A bar not too far from where I work is a gym and they offer a free pint to anyone on whichever team holds the gym at midnight on designated nights. I know a lot of businesses around here have leveraged the game to increase their traffic into their stores but this was one of the more brilliant ways to draw a crowd of pokedrunks. It lead to some pretty hilarious Mystic vs Valor drinking games. (We left Instinct out because they're basically the Hufflepuff of Pokemon Go.)


That sounds like an awesome drinking game and it's an incredible analogy for Instinct. Interestingly though, there appears to be an Instinct enclave near me - they've secured a level 7 gym with a mass of 1500+ pokémon defending it...

--------------------
We apologise for the inconvenience
Post #211088
Top
Posted: 27th July 2016 22:50

*
Chocobo Knight
Posts: 139

Joined: 30/1/2004

Awards:
Member of more than ten years. Participated at the forums for the CoN's 15th birthday! Third place in CoN Fantasy Football, 2010. Second place in CoNCAA, 2010. 
Member of more than five years. Second place in CoNCAA, 2006. Third place in CoNCAA, 2008. First place in CoN Fantasy Football, 2009. 
See More (Total 9)
This is one....







Dynamic Thread.

--------------------
And have you found your joy, in this near dead world of ours?
Post #211099
Top
Posted: 28th July 2016 00:32

*
Cactuar
Posts: 231

Joined: 26/5/2015


Quote (Gabe @ 27th July 2016 17:50)
This is one....







Dynamic Thread.

lol ftw

Anyway. Looks like the craze already died down. Nintendo reported a 1st quarter loss, and after news broke that they didn't actually make Pokemon Go! (Niantic did), their stocks plummeted.

On one hand, you can take what TrueBOSS said, about how he and many others I'm sure have discovered local landmarks and unknown architectural gems and think wow, this is great! And all because of an augmented reality mobile game.

But doesn't anyone find it alarming that we didn't know about some of this stuff in the first place and it did indeed take a free mobile game to discover some local gems? What are our towns/counties/states doing that these historical landmarks are completely ignored/forgotten? Towns that don't even know their own history?

I've never fully embraced smartphone technology. In fact, I still have never actually purchased one myself. I rejected social media, for the most part and only use it to keep in touch with a few peeps here and there. And part of the reasoning is because of the very reason that actually makes Pokemon Go! a phenomenon. Whereas the internet became more easily accessible, and at higher speeds, our infrastructure became more corroded, more complicated as it began to be built on top of itself. The internet became this accessible, easy "watering hole" of social dynamics. People meet and talk on the internet now, then venture outside as opposed to the opposite. There was a huge paradigm shift around the year 2000 that completely reversed thousands of years of human socialization, and in my opinion not for the better.

As the internet became more prominent in our lives (to the point that we don't even leave our homes without it, acting like it isn't the equivalent of a drug-addict saying they don't need their drugs, they can do without them; And the dopamine addiction associated with constant, instant gratification is just the same, honestly) our local treasures: Parks, Nature Preserves and trails, Monuments, Sculptures and Architecture were relegated to pictures and afterthoughts instead of seen, smelled and touched.

Pokemon Go!, as a social phenomenon, has somehow gotten the people back outside and they are stumbling upon these monuments of recent and far away history. Yet they still have the internet by their sides, their technology become all but an actual part of their bodies and somehow I think the "phenomenon" that's actually taking place is lost as it's found.

It is spoken sometimes, of this "world consciousness" and how this new age will begin to usher in a global mentality and everyone sings the praises "Finally! We can all think and act as one whole and progress the way our modern society should be!" but if that global mentality is that of ignorance, stupidity, then what good is it?

There is an old folk tale. I'll paraphrase it and I'm not sure of it's origin:

Two towns neighbor each other yet are completely isolated from large cities. Each town can sustain itself, but only if they trade goods and resources with each other.

One of the towns is full of ignorant people, while the other, is full of rational, intelligent people.

Trade being an absolute necessity, the two towns must interact with each other. Yet the rational, intelligent town is forced to lower their intelligence in order to barter with the ignorant town.

Eventually, the two towns, one rational and smart and one stupid and rash became two towns of equally intelligent people and finally, one large town of ignorant, irrational people.

--------------------
Post #211100
Top
Posted: 1st August 2016 15:40

*
Omega Weapon
Posts: 4,837

Joined: 31/10/2003

Awards:
Voted for all the fanart in the CoNvent Calendar 2015. Voted for all the fanart in the CoNvent Calendar 2014. User has rated 75 fanarts in the CoN galleries. Member of more than ten years. 
Contributed to the Final Fantasy VI section of CoN. User has rated 25 fanarts in the CoN galleries. Member of more than five years. 
I'm going to not bother with the idle sociological hypothesizing and continue to assess whether I want to play Pokémon Go on my own personal basis.

Also, investors are idiots.

--------------------
It Just Bugs Me! - a place to discuss media, real life, and other topics.
Post #211123
Top
Posted: 3rd August 2016 23:16

*
Cactuar
Posts: 231

Joined: 26/5/2015


Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 1st August 2016 10:40)
I'm going to not bother with the idle sociological hypothesizing and continue to assess whether I want to play Pokémon Go on my own personal basis.

Also, investors are idiots.


Well, I appreciate you not calling me a moron, either way.


Pokemon, to me, is a wonderful and fun fantasy world. It already was a social phenomenon. Children to young adults, middle-aged people and the elderly all love Pokemon. They all love Pokemon IN THEIR OWN WAY.

Some people only like the original 151 Pokemon. Some don't like the 2nd generation Pokemon. Some people like some Pokemon and strongly dislike others.

Some people think the card game is stupid and dismiss it without ever having played it.

Some people think the Anime is stupid, some have watched it, some have not.

I'm sure there are even people who don't like the videogames.

There is even a Manga that a lot of people probably read, maybe even some people only read the manga.

I don't like Pokemon Go!, it's concept or it's execution. And apparently the whole world knows it, according to a certain poster here. And after playing Pokemon for the past 20 years or so, I'm also an utter moron for dismissing Pokemon Go! as a cheap poseur, even before having played it. A dismissal the included a lot of thought and reading on the app before it was released. It wasn't even developed by Nintendo, Game Freak, Creatures or The Pokemon Company but by GOOGLE/NIANTIC.

But we still love Pokemon.

I personally, have a philosophy when it comes to Pokemon. And while in theory, Pokemon Go! is the "killer-app we've been waiting for" in the world of Pokemon, I think it's execution kills the very Philosophy behind Pokemon.

Pokemon is about befriending a "beast" and growing with it, becoming friends with it as you raise it and battling other Pokemon and trainers along the way, for FUN. It is about catching and raising your favorite Pokemon, self-discovery and growing as a person. This is what the games teach you, and the show teaches you.

You battle wild Pokemon to train yours and it is almost a necessity that you weaken the wild Pokemon you encounter to the brink of fainting, before catching it and then deciding what to do with it. It is a personal journey. There is a reason you aren't a Gym leader in the game and your victory as league champion doesn't carry-over. That's not what Pokemon is about. The anime, in a way, represents this perfectly. It's a never-ending journey with your companions and friends. And not a competition to catch the ONE strong or rare Pokemon in your area.


And what I have mostly seen from Pokemon Go! players, is large groups of people NOT socializing, standing still with their faces down in their phones (like they do normally) or worse, individuals wandering around randomly and NOT socializing, while getting mad at each other for catching a Pokemon they were trying to, and excessive competitiveness. There is no journey with Pokemon Go! and I don't believe "getting outside (and catching them all!)" is that journey, since we are already supposed to be doing that. It's a random algorithm that generates random Pokemons in random areas and creates, within itself, a virtual world to then battle them in. There are no actual, real-world Gyms to ACTUALLY travel a large distance to. The wild Pokemon you encounter are not endemic to your region or climate, like they should be.

People are treating their catches as trophies, who has what Pokemon. It is materializing what is supposed to be a sentient creature.

There are even some underlying themes in the games where some people's beliefs and motivations actually look at Pokemon catching and raising as slavery (and some Pokemon are what's called "HM slaves"), which is a very political, subtle theme that not many people will understand.

The world of Pokemon is that of POST-WAR. There was a very large, very devastating war in the world of Pokemon, one where middle-aged men are few and far in-between in the first few games. In fact, the first significant middle-aged man in the games who isn't a Political figure, is your dad in Generation 3, who is, in fact, a Gym leader, it turns out.

Pokemon Go! is not that world.


Disclaimer: The thoughts expressed here are what's called an opinion. And while there may be some facts within, we are all allowed to have an opinion and express our thoughts on the subject.

This post has been edited by Dynamic Threads on 3rd August 2016 23:20

--------------------
Post #211150
Top
Posted: 4th August 2016 22:59

*
Red Wing Pilot
Posts: 526

Joined: 21/5/2005

Awards:
Member of more than ten years. Submitted an idea for a podcast that was later recorded by the CoNcast team. Member of more than five years. 
Really enjoyed the game at first but I think it's starting to dwindle in popularity. When it first launched I'd see dozens of people at the Pokestops near my local park. Now it's rare that I even see one other person.

Some attribute this to its poor design. I mean, when you get right down to it Pokemon Go is pretty mediocre from a development standpoint. It's buggy, crashes all the time, has highly repetitive gameplay, and limited functionality. The original craze was probably fueled by nostalgia and the somewhat unique AR interface. Now that most non-gamers have gotten past that and see there's not much else, they've lost interest. And gamers are getting frustrated by the poor functionality that seems to only worsen with each update (like the recent removal of the three-step radar).

I still play it when I go for walks in the park with my dogs but I don't really feel compelled to go out looking for Pokemon or battle at gyms. There's still a bunch of hardcore people I know who go out to different parts of the city, or even state, trying to find different Pokemon and capture gyms. They probably have more time than I do to dedicate to the game.

If they perform some serious updates - fixing the three-step bug, adding player-to-player battles, allowing for trading - then I could see its sustained popularity. But thus far Niantic has failed with updates and player communication, and if they don't get their act together I could see this being one of the shortest lived fads of all time, especially when it starts getting cold outside!
Post #211156
Top
Posted: 5th August 2016 05:44

*
Black Waltz
Posts: 945

Joined: 23/2/2005

Awards:
Member of more than ten years. Member of more than five years. 
I love this game. Where I live there is literally nothing to do. Then this game comes out and now my friends and I go pokemon hunting all the time. It's a lot of fun and I hope more people continue to play it.

--------------------
"You know that feeling you get when you're on a merry go 'round, and you want to jump off to make the spinning stop, but you know it'll suck when you land? I feel like that all the time"- Keno

"I stab my girl until I fall down"
-Yukari
Do you like Horny Bunnies?
Post #211157
Top
Posted: 6th August 2016 04:52

*
Magitek Soldier
Posts: 317

Joined: 26/4/2007

Awards:
Member of more than five years. User has rated 300 fanarts in the CoN galleries. User has rated 150 fanarts in the CoN galleries. User has rated 75 fanarts in the CoN galleries. 
User has rated 25 fanarts in the CoN galleries. 
I've played the game enough now that i've pretty much stopped playing too. You have to be at a gym to battle and the battling sucks as of right now. There was a great app that was a great workaround for the 3 step tracker not working but Nianwhatever sent the app creators a SaD order then just cuts out the 3 step tracker so there's barely any tracking at all. Once you get to the point where a majority of the pokemon you need are rarer spawners, not having a tracker at all sucks. The final nail in the coffin for me was when i found out I'm most likely not going to get all 150 or 151 (no one seems to know if mews in this or not) So far no one has found Ditto, or the 3 legendary birds, Farfetche'd is only in Asia right now and MewTwo was in time square for a short time.

In short, I agree with MetroidMorphBall. This game could have been so much more. Oh well. It's still getting updated. fingers crossed that it'll get better.

--------------------
He's Back. He is The_TrueBOSS.
Check me and my partners out at: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheTrueBOSSofJupiter
Post #211164
Top
Posted: 6th August 2016 12:22

*
Cactuar
Posts: 231

Joined: 26/5/2015


@ No name and TrueBOSS:

For what it's worth, I've spoken with some employees at a local game shop here that compete with Gamestop called Oogie games and the one guy working there told me from what he's read/understands is that Pokemon Go! is only at TEN PERCENT of where Niantic originally envisioned it. So they basically admitted to having released a completely unfinished game.

But 10%? I believe it too, since IMO the game is so unpolished and almost broken now, especially with the updates.

I retract my endemic statement, since it is somewhat the case. But I was more trying to say that, for example, you can only catch Sandshrew in desert regions, or Farfetch'd/Pidgey Evo line are migratory. Fire Pokemon in hot/volcanic places, water Pokemon all over the great lakes and river systems, and Ice Pokemon up north where it snows.

They are only now just adding trading to it, I think?

I guess Niantic released a game called Ingress a while back that Pokemon Go! is pretty much a copy of, yet entirely broken and unfinished compared to Ingress, which I've been told is much, much better.

--------------------
Post #211166
Top
Posted: 6th August 2016 16:03

*
Magitek Soldier
Posts: 317

Joined: 26/4/2007

Awards:
Member of more than five years. User has rated 300 fanarts in the CoN galleries. User has rated 150 fanarts in the CoN galleries. User has rated 75 fanarts in the CoN galleries. 
User has rated 25 fanarts in the CoN galleries. 
I had a coworker actually tell me the same thing. That has a lot to do with why I started and why I've stopped for now. As it is. The game just kinda sucks atm. But updates can kill a game also instead of making it greater. I was a runescape guy for years and I watched as two updates pretty much destroyed anyones appeal to play that game. Thats why I'm crossing my fingers. I'm hoping the updates are good. But know they can also be bad.

--------------------
He's Back. He is The_TrueBOSS.
Check me and my partners out at: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheTrueBOSSofJupiter
Post #211167
Top
Posted: 6th August 2016 17:17

*
Cactuar
Posts: 231

Joined: 26/5/2015


Quote (TrueBOSS @ 6th August 2016 11:03)
I had a coworker actually tell me the same thing. That has a lot to do with why I started and why I've stopped for now. As it is. The game just kinda sucks atm. But updates can kill a game also instead of making it greater. I was a runescape guy for years and I watched as two updates pretty much destroyed anyones appeal to play that game. Thats why I'm crossing my fingers. I'm hoping the updates are good. But know they can also be bad.

Or in the case of Bethesda, they make a good game with horrible glitches a good game with... bad glitches, haha.

--------------------
Post #211168
Top
Posted: 6th August 2016 18:13

*
Magitek Soldier
Posts: 317

Joined: 26/4/2007

Awards:
Member of more than five years. User has rated 300 fanarts in the CoN galleries. User has rated 150 fanarts in the CoN galleries. User has rated 75 fanarts in the CoN galleries. 
User has rated 25 fanarts in the CoN galleries. 
Quote (Dynamic Threads @ 6th August 2016 11:17)

Or in the case of Bethesda, they make a good game with horrible glitches a good game with... bad glitches, haha.

Lol, Agreed.

--------------------
He's Back. He is The_TrueBOSS.
Check me and my partners out at: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheTrueBOSSofJupiter
Post #211169
Top
Posted: 6th August 2016 19:12

*
Disciplinary Committee Member
Posts: 648

Joined: 12/7/2011

Awards:
Member of more than five years. User has rated 25 fanarts in the CoN galleries. 
All that would make me happy is the sequel...

Pokemon GO AWAY

--------------------
My name's Johnny, and it might be a sin... B)
Post #211170
Top
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members: