I am back from my trip and I am going to explain what I meant in my topic right now.

First, I happen to love the FF Series so much and I have played it for 5 years and now on this past Friday on my trip with my church I had heard that an Anime Freak was having doors open in her mind for demons to attack her because of Anime, and FF. Mainly because the FF Series had Magic in the game and they think Final Fantasy, Pokemon, all of those card games Wizards( the company that produces Pokemon Cards) Have Created, Lord of the Rings, are all Satanical becuase they think that Magic is Evil and that Good and Evil can't coexist in the same world, and my Youth Pastor talked about having a bonfire very soon and that I should have my FF Stuff Burned and that I should not have it in my life.

Second, I Know that didn't make much sense but so I can still enjoy Final Fantasy I made a deal with my friend on that I should put my FF Games, Mempry Cards with FF Save Files on them, my Players Guides, Guides on a disk (Floppy), Magazine With FF Cover Storys into a box and give it too him (At least I can keep ALL of my FF Music, mainly becuase it has no words in it) until FFXII comes out.

Third, I just don't know what I am going to do with out FF in my life (if it was burned), I would be bored without it and I would feel uspet, I just know that my Youth Pastor can't force me to burn anything, it is not his decision, not my parents, but my decision. Also I just talked to my Dad about 15 minutes ago and he doesn't think FF is Satanical (same goes with thinks such as LOTR and Harry Pottor and that sort.) bacuse it is Fantasy-type Stuff and in my opinion in FF and that sort, anything goes and yet I don't fell there is anything wrong about that, so I say goodbye to Pokemon (I fell it can be getting super old.).

I just need some advice on what to do now that I won't have FF Games in my life for a year, I just feel a bit uspet about saying goodbye to the FF Series for a year. And also I am not much of an active Christian really. But I think I will be fine. Also another tack-on to this topic, I enev heard that Star Wars is Satanical and yet I still like it even thought I think it isn't. My Best Friend and his Grilfriend think that listening to Linkin Park (which I like) is a bad influence and it will make me depressed and Angry

This post has been edited by GamblingCat on 12th July 2004 17:39

O.O! man that's a problem... my brother is lazy and jobless and she blames it on Final Fantasy and Anime, and since she has looked into it she too deems it satanic.... so she has "banned" me from playing such things.... of course life without FF and Anime is... well... hell... screwed if you do, screwed if you don't kinda thing... my brother still has all his anime and FF and stuff..... Harry potter i do see an exact satanic referance from (as harry potter is all about magic whereas most FF's can be played without using magic whatsoever if you so decide.... My pastor rags on Dungeons and Dragons so... however i have not heard of one kid (from my church) who has not played {and enjoyed} the first 5 minutes of at least one final fantasy game... however having a bonfire to get rid of these things is a bad idea.... i mean if you're smart about it... you can sell it all and use the money for youth group purposes. plus the smell would be absolutely horrible.... i'd probably tell my pastor to 'screw you' if he told me to do that... man there is nothing seriously wrong with any FF or Anime... just so long as you realize that it is all fiction and should not practise trying to do that stuff in real life



This post has been edited by Zechs on 12th July 2004 17:09

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Figure things out for yourself. Most--not all, but most--of the people who claim that things like Final Fantasy, Harry Potter, Dungeons & Dragons, Vampire: The Masquerade, etc., are satanic have little or no idea what they're even dealing with. I've heard church monkeys inform me that Harry Potter would be okay if it didn't contain rituals to summon demons (none of the characters ever summons a demon); that Dungeons & Dragons is wrong because players start learning actual magic and have to worship demons gods when they reach a certain level (yeah, okay, and I've got a bridge to sell you...); that Vampire is bad because it encourages people to drink each other's blood (uh huh, that's why we all play--just to thwart the big disclaimer begging players not to be idiots that they print in the beginning of the book); and that Final Fantasy is bad because the characters learn spells and the whole point of the game is killing things (no story whatsoever, right?). Mostly, people believe things that they've heard other people say, and most of their arguments are without basis. In some cases, proving that might help; my mom left me alone about D&D after she saw the "Lord of the Rings" movies and really liked them, and I explained the relationship therein.

I've gotten into arguments about other specific lines of fantasy stuff, and not all of the arguments match these, but the only valid thing I've heard about any of it is this: as a Christian, you are supposed to make God the center of your life, your universe, your everything. If you find that an interest in something else is hindering this, you should cut that something out of your life. But that goes for a lot of things other than RPGs--poker, cars, food, sleeping in on weekends--and only you know whether or not your relationship with God is threatened by your leisure activities.

If you just can't go a year without Final Fantasy, maybe you're spending a little more time playing the game than other people think is healthy. Maybe you're just irritated that you're giving up a hobby you enjoy because of someone else's beliefs. You have to sort that out, and act accordingly.

I would advise you to stay out of arguments about the vast majority of this stuff. The people who think that (insert satanic game of choice here) is satanic have already made up their minds, and you're not going to change it. But in order to condemn something solely on the basis that it involves magic, you have to do two things: first, you have to take the Bible literally, and, second, you have to extend "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" to mean that it's wrong even to daydream about magic powers. Personally, I never thought that God was that much of a prick.

This post has been edited by karasuman on 12th July 2004 17:06

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It is a problem and when I thought of selling the stuff, thaey think that it is Very bad, becuase then they will have "doors opened up in there mind". As for a year of no FF I thnik I can handle it, at least I can stay on CoN and listen to FF music. But I will be fine, but my Youth Pastor has been a Christian since he was about 6 or 7 years old, and I just will have to cut back on FF and that sort when I do get it back.





This post has been edited by GamblingCat on 12th July 2004 17:21

Karasuman.... beautifully put.

I heard it about D&D when I was in high school..... how it was devil worship and how it made people crazy and all of that... All I knew was that it was a fun game that me and my friends could spend all day Saturday playing in someones basement in between eating pizza and talking about comic books.

Gambling Cat... I feel sorry for you that you are in such a position. It's frustrating when someone wants to take away something so important to you. I think Karasuman said it perfectly when she talked about how to wiegh everything and decide for yourself. Good luck with things, man. I hope it all turns out alright.

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D&D

Kara.. I couldn't have said it better myself.

But seriously, I played D&D in High School, along with MTG. We never took them seriously. It was just something for us to do Saturday night. Get together with a bunch of friends, order pizza, get a bunch of Coca Cola, and stay up till the early hours of the morning.

My parents never had a problem with it, nor did they have a problem with me playing Final Fantasy type games. Knowing that we got together and played D&D was comforting to them. They knew we weren't out getting drunk, or smoking pot or joy-riding. There are plenty of things worse out th!re.

I think that it has a far worse rep then it should. I don't know anyone who too* it so seriously, to the point of wanting to go practice dark arts.

And ya know... I haven't played D&D for a year, Magic: The Gathering for about 2. Losing Final Fantasy for a year shouldn't be a problem. If you need something to do, go to the Library and read a good book. *shrug*

This post has been edited by Fadien on 12th July 2004 17:31

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My parents were never that picky and i'm a pretty stonger christian because of their influences...i've played d&d, ff f+r almost ten years, watched movies with magic, read many fantas8 books, etc. etc. and i haven't been possessed

but yeah, mostly just find out what works best for you and what you believe...I've heard some pretty ignorant statements come from the most vehement church dwellers that i find to be completely unlike what a christian should think or say. (some of which are actually amusing as well as sad) Not putting down the church or God...just saying that sometimes people take this great idea (like christianity) and go overboard and make bad decisions (crusades, slavery, the spanish inquisition, Salem witch trials, etc.)

I think the best thing for a christian to do is to step out of the sheep mentality and start exploring their faith. So many people turn a preachers word into dogma and don't even question what has been said. So, IMO, they're not following/putting faith into God but the preacher.

Either way im going to pray for you.

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Im Essence this church Calls me a satan worshipper. This is one of the major problems i have with uber fundamentalism. All over zealous worship does is give people something to do, and something to fight. Thats not to say something is wrong with religion, just fundamentalism. If you take something like the testimony of a maniac, then give it to the church, chances are they're going to take it and warp it to use for their own purposes. Fundamentalism is a big problem i think. Look at the Crusades, 9/11. Ect.

I don't think FinalFantasy, or LOTR, Or D&D or Starwars, have ever caused me to worship satan. It's Ridiculous that something meant to provide entertainment would be skewed. I'm sure that the "Evil" Squarenix guys are just sitting in a Dark Shady boardroom just thinking up more evil ways to make people worship satan.

You know what else the Church burned back in the day? Books. Gallileo. New Ideas. Burning things that the church is scared of is a very old practice, that they use to do way back when. Before they burned witches, now they burn video witches.

sucks that you can't play for a year. Seems a little ridiculous to me, but i've never taken much out of religion.

This post has been edited by MogMaster on 13th July 2004 04:16

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Good heavens. And they let you surf the internet??? If your not allowed to play FF, you definately should not be allowed online.

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To(The Ancient) answer the question about surfing CoN: I can do it as long as I am not playing Final Fantasy or going to "Magic" related topics (i.e. Favoirte Magic Spell, favoiterf kind of mage, etc.). I am just lucky to do this, the same applys to listening to FF Music (No words in it is why).

And as for what MM said, having anything do do with FF, LOTR, and Star Wars never caused me to worship Satan, it just doesn't affect me for some reasons.

seriously if any body, and i mean anybody, be it your sister, brother, father, mother son, daughter, uncle, aunt, cousin, or whatever other person starts to say that final fantasy is evil and satanic, or any other things such as harry potter, just flip them off with that middle finger nd tell them to f*** off and get a life. seriously that can not be any further from the truth. The games constantly teach that truth and justice is good, and that evil will always be crushed. Its a bloody lie when they say stuff like ff causes people to be satanic, its just the church trying to control your life

The churh has been so built on lies and murder its just sad. I think the right word for it would be hipocracy.

If magic does exist, it is not evil. power itself is neither good or evil, it can only be used for good or evil. remeber that.

dont listen to them gambling cat. sure the games can be very addictive. that is the only problem with, but heh they have to be addictive or else they wouldn't be sold

This post has been edited by Angry_Lizard on 12th July 2004 21:42

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AL, that would make it worse if I fipped them off, I think I should steer clear of a few people when I go to church on Wed. and Sun.. I Don't think that I have to worry about this situation too much as I will be gone from the church for most of August. And also I don't think my Church is built on Lies and Murder. I just should not mention anything that has to do with Final Fantasy at Church, be present at a bonfire (which is wating money on matches and wood.) They think too many things are Satanic in my church (BTW my church is a Baptist Church). In the End off all this crud, I will be fine.







This post has been edited by GamblingCat on 12th July 2004 22:25

Man, that is kinda scary.

If I had a pastor and he was talking about burning stuff because it was evil I'd start looking for another church or something. Seriously, if you think this "book burning" talk is going overboard you should talk to your parents, or someone, about it. Or perhaps try to educate your pastor about Final Fantasy and the like. Show him that FF isn't about magic or Satan, it is a great story filled with love, strife, and a great many other complicated emotions. Show him D&D isn't about magic, its about the adventure, survival, and finding that big treasure chest. I'd be willing to bet your pastor has never even touched a Playstation controler let alone played any of the great RPGs of today.

Seems like a classic example of passing judgement without coming to understand what you're dealing with. Your pastor is just running away from what he percieves as evil without really learning anything about it. You should try to get him to personally learn about this kind of stuff before he starts shooting it down. I really don't know what you could say to him if he gives you that "opening doors in your mind for demons" bit. Maybe tell him you love FF games and you're not suffering from demons on the brain. Or tell him that a strong person wouldn't walk through the doors that demons open. I'm an atheist so obviously I think that kind of stuff is bogus, hence I might not be able to give the best advice on this.

You said the pastor couldn't force you to get rid of your stuff, so I'd have to agree with everyone else here. Figure things out for yourself. Don't let pressure sway you from doing what you think is best.

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This topic was OK until the last few posts >_>

It all depends on how into the game you are. If you find that you spend more time playing FF than with God, then you need to cut back on the video games. If you find the lines between the FF world and the real world begin to blur (even slightly), then you defenitely need to toss them into a fire.

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gambling cat if you go to it, i hope you go to protest it. if not don't even go at all. Remember hitler burned books as well, and they were the books of our brothers and sisters the jews. I love the jewish.

The only thing God wants is you to be a good little boy/girl, do some hard wok every once in a while and to build some good morals. Do that and you got a one way ticket to paradise at the end of that little road we call good ole life.


dood don't burn em, sell them. if the lines do blur, that means ur just crazy

This post has been edited by Angry_Lizard on 12th July 2004 21:53

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Those "demons" the anime freak opened doors to were a mental illness probably, like paranoid schizophrenia . There are no such things as Demons.

You are your own person. Decide for yourself if its truly a danger (an bear in mind, you've played for how long and you haven't , and reject thier absolute tosh. I remind you the more extreme elements of the Catholic Church oppose the use of condoms using the claim that sex without condoms is like playing 'russian roulette with AIDS' despite the fact that without, its russian roulette with aids, but using an automatic instead of a revolver? Its a prime example of how the extremists in religion are out of touch with the modern world whilst the. This scenario you describe is another. He is an extremist who cannot come to the rational conclusion that i have (mental ilness) and decided to try and brainwash people who respect him into the twisted dogma he belives. Perhaps he himself may have some mental illness, who knows?

So ignore the preacher in this case, for in the end, the only one you must listen to, is yourself. The only demons are his lies.

This post has been edited by Del S on 12th July 2004 22:41

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Del S the ex-anime freak wasn't having a mental I'llness at all, My Youth Pastor isn't lying at all. I happen to not go to a Caltholic Church. After all I went 10 years with out FF and I was fine. So maybe 1 year isn't that bad. And as for what Rujiken said, he has touched one, from what I have heard he does play a games about 1ce a year with his son but they play Gran Turismo and My Youth Pastors son has GTA 3 and Vice City.

I agree, if you like final fantasy keep it. just don't get to addicted i say



He lets his son play gta 3 and vice city, and he's ragging on final fantasy?!? he needs to set his priority straight

This post has been edited by Angry_Lizard on 12th July 2004 22:38

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You should do what your conscience guides you to do. Listening to other people and getting their opinion is fine, but it's up to you to make the final decision. If you find that it doesn't bother you, then keep right on playing. If it does, decided on how far you should rid yourself of FF and other related stuff that bothers you.

You might want to dwell on the fact too that the Youth Pastor's son plays GTA 3 and Vice City. Violence and sex galore are featured heavily on both. Are they applying their principles in their own life?

If the Youth Pastor insists that it's the right thing to do, ask him to give you some scriptures to look over. If they keep citing worshiping false gods, demons, etc. you have to ask, "Does my playing FF (or another similar game) constitute what that scripture was talking about?".

If the Youth Pastor insists that it's the right thing do and he provides no further explanation, then you know it's what he feels is wrong and not something based off scripture.

This is not something that will be an easy decision. You'll have to go over all the facts and arguements pro and con for it.

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That, is a bunch of bullcrap. The others have said what has to be said, so I'll just say this:

1. I don't know about you, but I sure as hell wouldn't burn my stuff just because someone THINKS it's demonic, especially when he knows NOTHING ABOUT IT. Hell no. I don't care if it's Final Fantasy or my dirty socks.

2. Think for yourself. Do YOU think FF is evil and whatnot? (I don't. It's just a game) Make your own decisions. Don't let people make them for you. Don't be so weak minded and gullible. I'm not saying you are, but if you come back two weeks later saying you burned your stuff, I'll question that.

3. If I were you, I'd just keep on happily playing my FF. What you do with your religion is up to you, but as long as your hobbies don't overshadow your priorities, you should be okay. As a Christian myself, I have TONS of RPG's, and I know that as long as you don't make them your life, you should be fine in the eyes of God. Use your judgement on what's good and evil.



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It really, really baffles me as to how people who are supposed to serve as mentors and guides can be so narrow-minded.
As has been eloquently mentioned several times before, it's all a matter of personal choice. I've been steeped in Catholicism since I was a kid, and nowhere during that time did anyone ever tell me that my liking things like FF, Harry Potter, etc., etc. were evil and satanic. It's the reason why the entire genre is called "Fantasy" to begin with - because it's not real. It's an escape from reality, because reality can be pretty boring sometimes. How far we take the ideas and concepts presented to us in those books and games - and in everything else - is our choice. And the fact that we can choose, the fact that we do have free will and the ability to discern what is right and wrong, what is enough and what is too much, is in itself a God-given gift to humanity. Like so many other things in this world, it's not the object itself that's "evil" - it's the abuse of said object. Like Tryscal said, so long as it doesn't take precedence over everything else under then sun, it's alright.
But really, show me a specific passage in FF, Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Magic or Harry Potter where it directly or indirectly renounces Christ as Savior and exalts the Devil as the supreme ruler of the universe and evil as the order of the day, and I'll show you satanist material. What's that? Can't find anything? Yeah, I thought so.

Wow. That reeks of straight up Christian Fundementalism. Hypocrisy and Vanity (not that all of it is of course). I've been dating a girl who used to go to a church like this and their beliefs baffle me sometimes. I had quite a conversation with a Youth Pastor like that, though not nearly as extravagent as this. Believe me, it is almost next to impossible to get someone who is set in their ways like that to listen to what you have to say. The way they speak is just "Nope, your wrong. Don't even waste your breath heathen. I'm a better person than you because I'm 'chosen' and I am 'Saved." That's the attitude I've always gotten anyways. They're "saved" so they can judge people and can't be second-guessed. Okay then. Judge not lest ye be judged anybody?

Now in order to make a viable point in his eyes you have to point out something blatantly obvious and hypocritical and...look what we have here! The poster child of "bad" video games!! So instead of focusing on ill-morals of killing, stealing, sex, etc. it's more important to gather up a storm of suspicion against "magic". Wow. This form of ignorant thinking breeds one thing: Salem Witch Trials! Point out to him how can he down soemthing he knows so little about, yet OPENLY conform to the playing of games that are sin-ridden all the way through? Oh hey, is it because your kids know that they aren't real? Well case in point Pastor Hypocrite. I bet that log in your own eye is starting to show itself eh?

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hey dont put sex into this. It never did anything wrong.



This post has been edited by Rangers51 on 13th July 2004 13:27

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Book suggestions:
anything by kurt vonnegut
anything by micheal crichton

also, AL, you seem to be getting overly upset about the whole thing...and sex can definitely have some negative effects if it's not respected properly
You're being very rude as well as getting overanimated when someone else asks you for help with a situation
I could even go as far as saying that you are displaying the same kind of pressure that he was wanting help with to begin with
If you can't say anything nice then you shouldn't say anything

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THIS is why it's never a good idea to mention religeon in posts.

Maybe I should start a topic on Bush vs. Kerry?

Seriously, GamblingCat.... I've been thinking about it, and I'm going to tell you what I would do, if faced with the same situation.

You siad your parents are cool with FF, right? It's just your youth pastor that's flipping out. Ok then, what authority does he have over you? What is he going to do if you don't get off your FF kick.... ban you from the churches potluck dinner? This guy has no sayso in your life at your age. It's you and your parents, man. And if they are cool with it, and it's something you enjoy doing and isn't harmful to you or others, then have at it.

The whole "burning" thing really gets to me.... didn't the Nazi's burn literature and things that didn't conform to them, too? I went to a church long, long ago that had a youth pastor who wanted all of us teenagers to bring our porn and burn it. I didn't have any, but I came to the "event", if such a grand term can be given to it, to watch several of my friends chuck penthouses, playboys, and hustlers into a bonfire the youth pastor had created. After the burning, we snag hymns and had cookies and koolaid. Gives me shivers now to even think about it.

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i wasn't getting upset...



@R51- sorry

This post has been edited by Angry_Lizard on 13th July 2004 17:59

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ok... this post may be very controversial... im sorry if i offend anyone...

1. if ANYONE told me to burn my stuff cuz it was satanic, id probably tell them to f**k off... and depending on who it was, i'd probably also call the nearest asylum...

2. What Tryscal and the others are saying is right, in my opinion. Do what YOU think is right, although i would think burning your stuff would be a little bit mellodramatic

Once again, im sorry if i offended anyone, please dont stone me to death, and GamblingCat, what you're saying is right... he cant force you to burn your stuff... just make your own decisions would be my advice...

Peace

These Youth Pastors command respect and people usually eat it up because they are "religious" and are "closer to God". Dogma is exactly what it is. They'll guilt trip you into thinking your turning your back on God because you aren't listening to them. All you're really doing is turning your back on a corrupted person. Remember, Satan takes many forms and a corrupt Pastor (not saying that your Pastor is the Devil or something of course. I haven't met him, and I wouldn't be able to judge that kind of thing anyways) can just one of them. It doesn't always have to be some raving serial killer. The key is deception. Just because someone has the title of Pastor, Priest, Father, etc. doesn't mean that they are automatically closer to God than you.

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I'll number my points for ease of reading.

1. I would tend to trust my parents more than a pastor. Pastors also have their religion to maintain, while parents to a higher percentage are concerned with looking out for you as an individual.

2. GamblingCat, it seems like playing FF has helped you engage in beneficial, wholesome, and intelligent conversations with all of us, so you have a strong de facto reason to believe that FF is more likely a tool of goodness than one of evil.

3. It's defininetly cool to go without playing for a while. It helps you discover what's more important than the game and also helps you appreciate the game to boot. (I only play video games while visiting my family in Connecticut.)

4. I'd say it's not necessarily a bad thing if FF takes God out of your life. I have oodles of FF and not a drop of God in mine, and I'm uber happy like this .

5. I'd suggest reading some Clive Barker to get an interesting perspective on the whole Christianity vs. Hedonism topic. Maybe "Imajica".

6. I wish you the best, no matter what.

This post has been edited by Ejoty on 14th July 2004 01:39

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Saying something like that to someone of a strong religious background is like saying "Hey man, you don't really need to eat food. I'm doing just fine on air and water. It's great."

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