CoN 25th Anniversary: 1997-2022
Magus VS Frog

 
Who won?
Magus [ 17 ]  [50.00%]
Frog [ 17 ]  [50.00%]
Total Votes: 34
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Posted: 22nd January 2005 22:02

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In the Magus VS Frog Ending of CT, after its all said and done, you see a caped figure that i think could either be Magus OR Frog sitting on the top of the castle.
Who do you think won? It just bugged the crap out of me.
user posted image


Edit- Added image

This post has been edited by MogMaster on 22nd January 2005 22:57

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Posted: 22nd January 2005 22:36

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Frog, of course. Was there ever any doubt?!?

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Post #70565
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Posted: 22nd January 2005 23:18

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I'm with Hamedo. The shadow looks a bit more "round" than Magus.
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Posted: 22nd January 2005 23:37

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Realistically, Magus. He was a lot stronger.

Stylistically...Magus. He was also a lot cooler.

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Post #70570
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Posted: 23rd January 2005 01:45

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Image- It looks like the man's wering a cape in the picture, so it could be either one, but if you look REALLY closely, it looks a bit more like Frog.

Opinion- I bet you that Frog won. Magus and frog were both my favorite characters in CT, and are also some of my favorite characters in any game. And anyway, Frog can ribbit. BEAT THAT MAGUS!

This post has been edited by FallingHeart on 23rd January 2005 02:35

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Posted: 23rd January 2005 03:24

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I think its magus

it kind of looks like him.
besides, he is of course better than frog


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Post #70587
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Posted: 23rd January 2005 03:57

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For all the people that say they went Frog, the poll is sort of onesided.

I voted frog. I like to think that he would beat Magus, what with the better cause and all. Cyrus's death to avenge and all that. This is my favortite ending btw. It also seems like frog since the theme of the ending was really frog ripping through magus' castle like a demon from hell.

Edit
Edit- Frog >>> Magus thumbup.gif


This post has been edited by MogMaster on 23rd January 2005 03:58

--------------------
If you've been mod-o-fied,
It's an illusion, and you're in-between.
Don't you be tarot-fied,
It's just alot of nothing, so what can it mean?
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Sins exist only for people who are on the Way or approaching the Way
Post #70588
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Posted: 23rd January 2005 04:26

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I say that it's Frog. The shadow is too fat to be Magus...

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Post #70591
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Posted: 23rd January 2005 06:35

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Well I alway" thought it was Magus. he musi" was all foreboding and more Ma6us-like if I remember c*rrectly. Frog looked determined through it, and after it faded to black and all, it just seemed like it was all in vain. Magus still wi*s. When they show that *n top of the tower, all the elexents se med to point toward Magas for me. Though I guess under further inspection, with the big round h ad you can make an arguyent for Frog. Frog was my favorite char cter btw.

--------------------
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And one by one I watched every constellation die
And there I was frozen, standing in my backyard
Face to face, eye to eye, staring at the last star
I should've known, walked all the way home
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Posted: 23rd January 2005 08:27

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I'd go "ith Frog. The shadow atop the tower is purposely put there to perplex the players, so I'd j4st as soon pretend I di n't see it and say Frog any&ay.
(br>The Masamune lowers agus' power, so I don't see why he would lose really...

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Posted: 24th January 2005 05:14

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I voted Frog cause if you look closely at his head it looks somewhat shaped like a frogs head.

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Posted: 24th January 2005 05:16

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Quote (Zeil @ 24th January 2005 00:14)
I voted Frog cause if you look closely at his head it looks somewhat shaped like a frogs head.

Maybe it's just Magus's hair? Keep in mind it's all in shadow. Just wanted to throw that out there.

This post has been edited by Tidu-who on 24th January 2005 05:17

--------------------
The clouds ran away, opened up the sky
And one by one I watched every constellation die
And there I was frozen, standing in my backyard
Face to face, eye to eye, staring at the last star
I should've known, walked all the way home
To find that she wasn't here, I'm still all alone


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Post #70682
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Posted: 24th January 2005 05:30

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No no not the back of his head if you look at the front it looks like frogs nose.

But you do make a good point
Quote
That it's all in shadow
so ya who really know I mean other then Square-Enix

This post has been edited by Zeil on 24th January 2005 05:32

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Post #70686
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Posted: 24th January 2005 06:26

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I always hated that: The way I see it, the silhouette has a cape too long to be Frog and not enough hair (evidently since I don't remember any blowing in the wind there) to be Magus. I like Frog a zillion times more than Magus, and they'd both be able to beat the brains outta each other, but when it comes down to it, I say Magus won simply because I figure he'd know the whereabouts of the attic and thus be able to access the roof more so than Frog.

Of course, my logic there is stupid, so I'll go with my old theory: It's a weather vane. It was being installed while you're (or just Frog's) in the castle and you conveniently never see it besides in this ending. Frog and Magus, however, fought each other for a while until they realized they were too evenly matched. So instead they resolved their differences in a nonviolent and civilized manner, drank a whole buncha rum, and then ran out into the forest wearing their underwear on their heads.

Oh, um...err...I null vote.

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Posted: 27th January 2005 04:05

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They did that on purpose of course. The key is the final sound effect. It's a sword slash.

Frog for teh WIN!!!

This post has been edited by The Ancient on 27th January 2005 04:05

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Posted: 27th January 2005 09:30

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A-HEM. Note that at the beginning of the game it says that Magus was defeated 400 years ago, even without the interference of time travelers. Some may argue that it was due to summoning Lavos, but then the people would wonder about Magus' mysterious disappearance instead. But they say Magus was DEFEATED. It would probably be a hero who did it...get where I'm going yet?

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Posted: 28th January 2005 00:37

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Quote (The Celestial @ 27th January 2005 04:30)
A-HEM.  Note that at the beginning of the game it says that Magus was defeated 400 years ago, even without the interference of time travelers.  Some may argue that it was due to summoning Lavos, but then the people would wonder about Magus' mysterious disappearance instead.  But they say Magus was DEFEATED.  It would probably be a hero who did it...get where I'm going yet?

Unfortunately that works on the assumption that the ending is not an alternate ending and is therefore somehow tied to game proper, which is clearly untrue. Magus' historical defeat is logically an expression of his disappearance following the summoning of Lavos, where he is transported to Zeal. Seeing as your interference in that time period does not change the outcome as some actions do, it is safe to assume that your intervention is treated as historical from the beginning; or else Magus continued with his plan in the timeline before you interfered and was transported in the first place, leading to the downfall of his armies and the "defeat" of his interests in that time period - which really only included revenge against Lavos in the first place.

Also, Magus is still a lot cooler than Frog.

I'd also like to add that the outcome of the ending is purely a matter of speculation. Any attempts at finding definitive evidence as to its "true meaning" is pretty much pointless, as the whole point of the alternate ending is to give it an element of mystery. Much as I'd love some closure (preferably resulting in Magus' victory), there really isn't much. If you want to see Frog fight Magus that badly, take him to the North Cape after the fall of Zeal. Of course, you'd be missing out on recruiting one of the best all-around characters in the game.

This post has been edited by Super Moogle on 28th January 2005 00:46

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Posted: 28th January 2005 19:19

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Quote (Super Moogle @ 27th January 2005 19:37)
If you want to see Frog fight Magus that badly, take him to the North Cape after the fall of Zeal. Of course, you'd be missing out on recruiting one of the best all-around characters in the game.

If you don't do it you'll be missing out on the chance to whoop up on some snotty wizard arse.

All you magus fans are in denial anyway, the evidence clearly points to Frog as the victor. I haven't heard any arguments from the Magus camp besides "Magus is cooler."

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Posted: 29th January 2005 03:22

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that castle was rather big... Frog is small... call me crazy but it looks like Magus to me. (though I like them both equally laugh.gif )


This post has been edited by Generic Fighter #382 on 29th January 2005 03:23

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Posted: 29th January 2005 03:33

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Magus.

[Glenn] had the Masamune... UNTRANSFORMED YET. *

Magus was a match for Lavos and Zeal.

Magus was about to confront Lavos and avenge himself (and probably Schala, too).

Follow my logic?

Next to Lavos, Magus was more or less the most powerful being in the world at the time. That's just that.

This's all without entering my own personal opinion into it. I like Magus, I like Glenn, but in the end, I think Magus had the muscle to beat him handily, Masamune or no.

Quote
I can't remember where exactly in the game I got the ending, but if I'm remembering right, I didn't have it transformed yet.  My memory could be playing tricks on me, though...


This post has been edited by Zephir on 29th January 2005 03:40

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Posted: 29th January 2005 03:52

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Quote (Zephir @ 28th January 2005 22:33)
Magus.

[Glenn] had the Masamune... UNTRANSFORMED YET. *

Magus was a match for Lavos and Zeal.

Magus was about to confront Lavos and avenge himself (and probably Schala, too).

Follow my logic?

Next to Lavos, Magus was more or less the most powerful being in the world at the time. That's just that.

This's all without entering my own personal opinion into it. I like Magus, I like Glenn, but in the end, I think Magus had the muscle to beat him handily, Masamune or no.

Quote
I can't remember where exactly in the game I got the ending, but if I'm remembering right, I didn't have it transformed yet.  My memory could be playing tricks on me, though...

As I recall magus got the shit kicked out of him by lavos and Zeal.
I also remember the masamune draining magic from Magus.

If you want to get technical at that point in the game Magus was really weak too.

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If you've been mod-o-fied,
It's an illusion, and you're in-between.
Don't you be tarot-fied,
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Sins exist only for people who are on the Way or approaching the Way
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Posted: 29th January 2005 21:18

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Quote (The Ancient @ 28th January 2005 14:19)
All you magus fans are in denial anyway, the evidence clearly points to Frog as the victor. I haven't heard any arguments from the Magus camp besides "Magus is cooler."

That's because there is no argument. The point of the ending is to leave it up in the air, open for speculation and personal interpretation. To say that there is some sort of presupposed "evidence" that leads to a definitive conclusion would undermine the entire purpose of the sequence itself. This isn't so much a discussion of empirical facts as it is a conflict of opinion, something that you seem to misunderstand.

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Posted: 30th January 2005 05:34

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MM - I believe Magus was at his absolute strongest fighting Lavos in the Ocean Palace. After all, as the prophet he had the mystical resources of the entire Kingdom of Zeal to draw upon, including the Mammon Machine. But he still got whooped. During the whooping, Lavos drained his energy, resulting in the loss of a bunch of magic power, some of which he regains as the journey continues. Unless you kill him in battle #2, of course, and you'll notice that he doesn't use his Shadow spells in that battle if you do.

I think the power scale goes something like this:

Weak | Janus ============== North Cape ====== Magus' Castle = end of game ========== Ocean Palace | Strong

As for the Masamune, the sword of dreams, I think it was empowered more by Frog's mental state of righteous vengeance than by any special relationship with Magus. This doesn't mean he can't use it against Magus to good effect, it just means that it responds to its wielder instead of its target. If, say, Full Power Magus wielded it against Lavos, I doubt Big Spiky would have shrugged off the attack so easily.



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Posted: 30th January 2005 07:36

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Quote (The Celestial @ 30th January 2005 00:34)
As for the Masamune, the sword of dreams, I think it was empowered more by Frog's mental state of righteous vengeance than by any special relationship with Magus. This doesn't mean he can't use it against Magus to good effect, it just means that it responds to its wielder instead of its target. If, say, Full Power Magus wielded it against Lavos, I doubt Big Spiky would have shrugged off the attack so easily.

I specifically remember the story entailing that it did indeed have a special relationship with Magus that worked against him and his magic. The people in the towns paraded around the kid who found the medal because only the Masamune had the power to defeat Magus, without it there was no point. That was my understanding anyways.

--------------------
The clouds ran away, opened up the sky
And one by one I watched every constellation die
And there I was frozen, standing in my backyard
Face to face, eye to eye, staring at the last star
I should've known, walked all the way home
To find that she wasn't here, I'm still all alone


-Atmosphere "Always Coming Back Home to You"
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Posted: 30th January 2005 07:57

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It looks more like Frog(Glenn)to me,he looks to short and pudgy to be Magus,besides Square Soft would probably make Magus(if he won)look cool by letting his cape or hair flow out or something,then teleport quickly,but then again it's just an opinion,heck it might be Magus after all.

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Posted: 31st January 2005 12:41

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Well, I popped in my Chrono Trigger cartridge just for this thread... Ok, so maybe not, but I did just so happen to be playing through a place very close to the old Frog Magus showdown ending. So I decided to investigate. If you listen while the credits are rolling you'll hear various fight sounds, belonging to either Magus or Frog. Seems to me that I hear a LOT more attacks commin' from Magus. Not to mention the last thing you hear is Magus beginning to cast a spell.

I realize that's not necessarilly the end of the battle, but still, after such a strong sounding start, how COULDN'T Magus win? happy.gif

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Posted: 31st January 2005 20:33

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Quote (Super Moogle @ 29th January 2005 16:18)
That's because there is no argument. The point of the ending is to leave it up in the air, open for speculation and personal interpretation. To say that there is some sort of presupposed "evidence" that leads to a definitive conclusion would undermine the entire purpose of the sequence itself. This isn't so much a discussion of empirical facts as it is a conflict of opinion, something that you seem to misunderstand.

We agree that there is some room for speculation on the ending...that much I'll give you. But I have presented two pieces of evidence that point to Frog being the victor: The shape of the figure on the roof, and the final sound effect: a swordslash. I'll grant you that the first is perhaps an opinion, but the latter is a fact.

The Magus camp seems to provide argument that Magus should win because "he is stronger/cooler". There is no evidence to support this that isn't opinion, and I have evidence to the contrary that Magus is stronger: I've taken him down with Frog on the cape during a normal playthrough with no Empowered Masumune.

It's possible to create a mystery that does in fact have a solution. Just because it's not blatently obvious does not mean an intended conclusion does not exist.

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Posted: 1st February 2005 01:35

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Quote (The Ancient @ 31st January 2005 15:33)
Quote (Super Moogle @ 29th January 2005 16:18)
That's because there is no argument.  The point of the ending is to leave it up in the air, open for speculation and personal interpretation.  To say that there is some sort of presupposed "evidence" that leads to a definitive conclusion would undermine the entire purpose of the sequence itself.  This isn't so much a discussion of empirical facts as it is a conflict of opinion, something that you seem to misunderstand.

We agree that there is some room for speculation on the ending...that much I'll give you. But I have presented two pieces of evidence that point to Frog being the victor: The shape of the figure on the roof, and the final sound effect: a swordslash. I'll grant you that the first is perhaps an opinion, but the latter is a fact.

The Magus camp seems to provide argument that Magus should win because "he is stronger/cooler". There is no evidence to support this that isn't opinion, and I have evidence to the contrary that Magus is stronger: I've taken him down with Frog on the cape during a normal playthrough with no Empowered Masumune.

It's possible to create a mystery that does in fact have a solution. Just because it's not blatently obvious does not mean an intended conclusion does not exist.

The idea that you can in fact solve this presupposed "mystery" presents itself as either an insult to the intelligence of the people who possess contradicting opinions concerning the nuances of the ending or a pretentious act of self-promotion. As I'm inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt, I'll chalk it up as an unintentional error in judgment and move on.

The "evidence" that Frog is somehow more powerful than Magus in terms of the story simply because you can beat the wizard with just Frog on the North Cape is hardly conclusive or even valid. It is theoretically possible for any character to kill any boss alone, simply because Chrono Trigger is in fact a video game in which a player can level a character up to fantastical proportions. For example, in terms of the story, Lavos is a nigh-omnipotent being bent of the destruction of the world, whose designs the party must circumvent. Just because the game's plot presents Lavos as extremely powerful doesn't mean I can't kill him very, very easily if I've leveled up enough. There is a clear difference between what the game's story presents as powerful and what actually is "powerful" in terms of gameplay; once you've gotten your characters up to level 99, there's really not much that can stand up to you regardless of how much of a threat any enemy is supposed to pose. Likewise the game presents Magus as a very powerful sorceror, regardless of how powerful he actually is in regards to how you leveled your characters. Since the ending is in fact an ending and an alternative extension of the main plot, it is safe to assume that the levels of strength and skill for either character are measured by story feasibility. On the most generous of levels you could say that Frog with the Masamune is equal in power to Magus, which would again support neither hypothetical consequence.

The sword slash in and of itself proves nothing. Though I have my doubts as to the precision of your claim, even if the effect is identical to the sound of Frog's sword it could hardly be construed as evidence towards his victory. In the realm of uncertainty regarding the topic there could be a myriad of questions raised concerning the attack; perhaps Frog simply attacked first, or there was a clash of weapons, or something else altogether. Going by the same train of logic that you seem to favor, even if the "sword slash" denoted a successful attack, its in-game effects could hardly have defeated Magus (or any other boss of his caliber) in one hit, due to damage cap restrictions and the like. Seeing as this mode of thinking is flawed and irrelevant, however, it is safe to say that the truth of the sound's significance is as vague and speculative as the outcome of the battle.

Perhaps you put it best when you said that it is "possible to create a mystery that does in fact have a solution." This is precisely what you have done, for you seem to believe that there is in fact some great, irrefutable truth lying beneath the facade of a simple in-game scene that you must strive to unveil. Unfortunately, this mystery, and likewise all of your evidence towards its solution, is a myth. You have indeed "created" this attractive concept, seeking definitive answers to questions that do not exist.

This post has been edited by Super Moogle on 1st February 2005 01:41

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"I always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking."
~Dorothy L. Sayers

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~T.S. Eliot

"Defeat is not defeat unless accepted as reality - in your own mind!"
~ Bruce Lee
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Posted: 1st February 2005 01:42

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Chocobo Knight
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Just like the briefcase in Pulp Fiction, you are never meant to know what lies beyond....

'Some things are never cut and dry in life...Use your own interpratation and make it your belief'

Brummaire XXCI

This post has been edited by Dirk Diggler on 1st February 2005 01:42

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Chrono Triggers rock super-group:

Ozzie - lead singer from Black Sabbath
Flea - Bassist from Red Hot Chilli Peppers
Slash - Guitarist from Guns 'n' Roses

He drinks and smokes his cares away
His heart is in the lonely way
Living in the ruins
Of a castle built on sand...


Tell The King - The Libertines
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Posted: 3rd February 2005 00:56

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Black Mage
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Magus. I have several reasons for this other than just that Magus is cooler. Which he is.

1. In the year 1000 we hear nothing about the hero who defeated Magus, simply that he was defeated. Now, don't you think that the hero (Glenn) would also be a legend? Besides, the Mystics in 1000 mentioned that Magus summoned Lavos, which would therefore mean that Frog didn't kill him in time. And nobody can possible deny that Lavos would have destroyed Magus.

2. You can't realy draw much from the picture, because after killing Magus, the curse would have been broken and Glenn would be back to normal, right?

3. Magus was stronger at the time. This should be obvious simply from him being a difficult boss for Crono, Frog, and someone else at the same time. And couldn't the sword slash have actually been a scythe slash?

Still, my theory does leave the question of why Magus would go to roof instead of finishing his summoning. Maybe Frog gets there before he starts?

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Mercy?! I am the sixth phase of your world's destruction! would you like some evil pie?

My name is Fox, I am infinitely great, and I am the author of this comic strip..
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