CoN 25th Anniversary: 1997-2022
Did you ever think

Posted: 18th January 2017 01:08

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Black Waltz
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That maybe replying to some new threads someone is posting once in a while, regardless of your familiarity with the person posting them, might in some way, at least incrementally, help to grow your community a little?

You guys seriously have nothing to say to me? When did I make a stink? When have I ever even been warned by this forum?

I don't get it. Is it a thing where only people who joined before the end of Dial-Up Connections are allowed to have voices around here?

Wake up, would you?

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Post #211940
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Posted: 18th January 2017 05:34

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Eheheh, except in rare cases I have not personally communicated with the others all that much either, so perhaps my hypothesizing is unqualified and I do not know much for certain, especially as my recent participation has been rather sparse, but I doubt it is anything personal.

My thought on the matter is that there just aren't as many posters as there used to be. The mods have commented their discontent with the dwindling membership to my recollection, and the soda contest seems to be an effort to encourage some posting.

Regarding the specific era, I think it has more-so to do with what happened to the Final Fantasy series in the years since.I think the older fans are drifting away from Final Fantasy series, and that's the common bond which binds us. Once we grow disinterested in the game series, we grow disinterested in the website about it and just don't respond much.

Despite much anticipation, I haven't really heard much good about any of the games upon their initial release since Final Fantasy VII. Final Fantasy VIII had the junctioning system, the unsympathetic protagonist and a bit of a contrived plot. Final Fantasy IX was an overall good game but "too cartoony". Final Fantasy X was too linear. Final Fantasy XI so much grinding, that people were coming to Hunted to Extinction II just to pass the time. Final Fantasy XIV didn't have enough content at launch. Final Fantasy XV looks like it's going to be a very tedious experience based upon the footage I've seen. As for Final Fantasy XIII, I don't recollect what the problems were but I know there were some complaints about it, although on the other hand I have seen Rangers51 write up some nice things about it, but Rangers 51 has also told me that generally speaking, his life has mostly moved on from video games and into other responsibilities.

Aside from those specific complaints, there is a progressively diminishing of the medieval fantasy aspects in favor of the sci-fi elements, and I think where we lie on that is more towards the medieval stuff. Moving over to the Playstation era of the mainline Final Fantasy games seemed like a non-priority for CoN for a long, long time and while we eventually got a Final Fantasy VII section, that was only after all of the games released in English were covered before it. Granted, I do not recollect a time when we lacked a Final Fantasy Tactics forum, but I think Final Fantasy Tactics is closer in overall style to the S.N.E.S. games than it is to the other Playstation games. I would also note that perhaps the last game we've covered just so happened to be one of Squaresoft's other S.N.E.S. games.

If it seems like we're stuck in the era of dial-up, it might be because the games that interested us most are from shortly before that era. Does that seem plausible?

This post has been edited by Tonepoet on 18th January 2017 06:25

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Post #211942
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Posted: 18th January 2017 06:21

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Black Waltz
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The dial-up thing is a joke. I joined in 2011, so I was...I don't really know what the joke I was making was supposed to be.

Anyhow.

Yes, the site has strategy guides and coverage of the whole series.

But what's the site's point? Final Fantasy VI right?

...Did this game stop being good the second Final Fantasy VII came out? What's the deal? There's nothing here to discuss? Have you guys really thought about what the story of this game means, what the innovations introduced to the games industry at the time were like, what legacy FF6 has in the industry? I mean, huh? Who? Wha?

Even if it's all been said at this point, has any of you ever thought that perhaps SPEAKING WITH A COMMUNITY THAT SHARES YOUR INTEREST IN A PARTICULAR SOFTWARE TITLE might be, oh, I don't know...

...Enjoyable????

Cuz I have! But you guys are taciturn in the extreme, especially as regards FF6 itself, and especially in the last 4 years.

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Post #211944
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Posted: 18th January 2017 06:53

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VI has always been an odd ball game for me. I loved the hell out of it as a kid. But I have some mixed feelings for it now. I think it's mostly because it was too easy. I'd love to see Square give it a definitive edition like 1 through 4 (And freaking give us Tiamat gosh darn it).
I think my dwindling in love for VI also has something to do with my recent discovery in my love for V. That game grew on me over time, now I've reserved V as my game from the snes era while my costars get the other two. Solgar gets IV since that is the only one of those three he's beaten and Lena gets VI since it's the easiest of the three.
Not to say I hate it. It just gives me very meh feelings for some reason. Which is weird because I totally bawled the first time I let Cid die and had to watch how Celis handles it.

Speaking of VI. Has anyone seen this? THE MOST SUCCESSFUL FINAL FANTASY GAME? 30th anniversary facts (FF1 - FF15)
There's a section of the video where an overall graph is shown that covers what the overall ratings for each Final Fantasy game are. And VI is the highest rated. I was a little surprised but don't blame people for loving it. It was a good game.

This post has been edited by TrueBOSS on 18th January 2017 07:01

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Post #211946
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Posted: 18th January 2017 09:56

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We had dial up in my house briefly, despite my advice that this was a really bad idea and why not just get broadband? Then the monumental bill came through and we never used dial up again. Still didn't have wifi for years though.
Now we all have it on our smart phones everywhere we go.

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Post #211948
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Posted: 18th January 2017 12:29

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Black Waltz
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Quote (fatman @ 18th January 2017 04:56)
We had dial up in my house briefly, despite my advice that this was a really bad idea

BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ooooooooooooooo wee ooo WEE...shhhhhhhshshshshshhsssssssshhhh

One of the things that has always struck me as odd about FF6 (among many other factors) was the total absence of cats as a domesticated pet. They later showed up in Chrono Trigger, but in FF6, Cats are strictly enemies or motifs for a certain piece of equipment for Relm, which doubles your Gil drops after battle when she has it equipped and is in the active party.

What's the deal? Not a cat lover on the team?

Sorry if this seems like a total tangent as regards the thread subject, but it is 6:30 am, and I did just finish my first cup of coffee, and I am kinda disoriented lately. I guess there's a certain terseness to my tone in the above posts, and I don't really know of a way to counteract that except by being quirky.

This post has been edited by Spooniest on 18th January 2017 12:31

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Post #211950
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Posted: 18th January 2017 19:57

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I played the World of Balance while having a dial-up connection and the World of Ruin while having an ethernet connection.

College started during the intervening time.

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Post #211958
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Posted: 19th January 2017 16:40

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Quote (Spooniest @ 17th January 2017 19:08)
That maybe replying to some new threads someone is posting once in a while, regardless of your familiarity with the person posting them, might in some way, at least incrementally, help to grow your community a little?

You guys seriously have nothing to say to me? When did I make a stink? When have I ever even been warned by this forum?

I don't get it. Is it a thing where only people who joined before the end of Dial-Up Connections are allowed to have voices around here?

Wake up, would you?

Not sure who this is directed at, really. Nobody but moderators and individual users know if they have ever been warned (you haven't, by the way, though you must know that). And my gut feeling is that your threads and posts don't lack responses any more than anyone else's do these days, though that's without any actual research on the matter.

So, I'm not sure if you're actually worried about forum posts in general or just threads that you personally contribute to - so I'll just link this old post: http://www.cavesofnarshe.com/forums/ipb/in...ndpost&p=207892

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Post #211969
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Posted: 19th January 2017 18:16

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Black Waltz
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When...2014? Huh?

I posted that thread. I think I was abusing alcohol at the time to deal with feelings of paranoia and despondency in my personal life. I won't go into any more detail. smile.gif

Hm. Ideas for the site.

I think the biggest thing I'd think first for any website is, what is the viewer looking at?

It is a 2 dimensional plane, that possesses height and width. It is a series of diodes that produce a color (when viewed, the color of this diode is known as a picture element, or "pixel" for short).

Put plainly, this is a thing that people look at through a 2-D screen. Sorry if I'm being utterly pedantic, but thinking too fast is wasteful, they say ("Haste makes waste.")

So, if it's a 2-D screen, what can you do with that?

1. Display an image or images.
2. Display text.
3. Display audio/video.
4. Showcase audio alone, spoken or sung or played.
5. Communicate with the viewer or viewers.

I'd say that #5 is the master of the other 4, and I'm getting stuck here making this list. Perhaps that's all you can do?

So the primary idea behind a Website is to communicate something. It is a form of media just like a news broadcast, a song, a movie, a book, a video game, etc etc etc.

Of all the media types, a website is most like a video game, because it is interactive entertainment, but it is also between human beings, so it is far far less predictable than a video game and real life consequences must be taken into account.

Now, what is CoN doing in that department? Do you have some kind of idea of your goal as source of interactive entertainment for people?

It is called the "Caves of Narshe." So that makes me think of the musical theme I first heard when I entered the mines at the start of Final Fantasy VI.

(At this point my sister came home and we talked a bit about stuff and stuff, and then I got to thinking about my above point a while)

The atmosphere of FF6 is determined the moment you walk through that cave opening and Biggs, Wedge and Terra are in the mines. Then the game's first BGM starts.

It is harp (I think) playing three-note thematic phrases. This is sweetened by two-chord string parts played by a synth that sounds like 20 violins at once, also known as a String Section. You've played the game, you can hear it in your head right now.

But the next thing that happens, once that theme is introduced and then made very tense...is that the music begins in earnest. What my Italian girlfriend would call "contrabass" starts playing. We in America call it "stand-up bass," because that's what it looks like when you see someone doing it. It is not electric bass, those are smaller, use a strap, and are always connected to an amplifier. This is old-fashioned stand-up bass, and it's the best example of it on any synth I've ever known. Bent notes, blue notes, intonation watched carefully by the sound engineer...

What does that say about the piece? It's not jazz...jazz is more elaborate. It is blues.

Blues is something I know about, and if you doubt it, I will arrange a youtube demonstration.

The fact that the theme of Narshe is bluesy means that Sakaguchi wanted it to have an earthy, dirty, old-timey feel, and that is what Caves of Narshe lacks.

Your site design is minimalistic in its default mode that a new user sees. It looks like plastic. That probably was very easy for you to make, but it is not exactly attractive or suggestive of a feeling, and it is probably not what a FF6 fan thinks of when they hear the words "Caves of Narshe." Notice that nothing in FF6 is ever made of plastic.

My first bit of advice, then, would be to make your site look and feel less plastic, more like wood, metal, ceramics, and perhaps make it feel that way through its animations too. I'm not talking anything elaborate, but a bit more animation can lend a site a more "realistic" feel.

Your site does not match the game's atmosphere. That's my idea that I think would improve it.

It's probably not really practical, but it is one idea.

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Post #211970
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Posted: 19th January 2017 19:36

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That is a hall of fame post, and I do not intend that to be taken as a compliment.

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Post #211972
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Posted: 20th January 2017 00:57

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Black Waltz
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Quote (Neal @ 19th January 2017 14:36)
That is a hall of fame post, and I do not intend that to be taken as a compliment.

So that's a no then

Nicotine withdrawal does funny things Neal.

But this is all I'm going to say at the moment.

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Post #211973
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Posted: 26th January 2017 16:10

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OK, so, I'm wading into this pretty deep now because after a while I kind of get stuck thinking about it. I'm really not sure there's all that much to say here that I haven't said elsewhere in the past, so I apologize in advance for being a broken record. Also, full disclosure, Spooniest has brought some of this up to me in instant message already and I told him that I wouldn't be talking about it much in that forum because everyone deserves my response (if for some dumb reason they want it). Also some stuff that I failed to comment on before in here too.

Quote (Tonepoet)
My thought on the matter is that there just aren't as many posters as there used to be. The mods have commented their discontent with the dwindling membership to my recollection, and the soda contest seems to be an effort to encourage some posting.

True on both counts.

Quote (Tonepoet)
but Rangers 51 has also told me that generally speaking, his life has mostly moved on from video games and into other responsibilities.

Also true, but I did just buy a PS4, soooo. And I also have a grand total of something like 280 hours invested across the three Final Fantasy XIII games. It took me five years to get there, but that's where I'm at, just as an anecdote describing my recent video game history.

Quote (Tonepoet)
Aside from those specific complaints, there is a progressively diminishing of the medieval fantasy aspects in favor of the sci-fi elements, and I think where we lie on that is more towards the medieval stuff. Moving over to the Playstation era of the mainline Final Fantasy games seemed like a non-priority for CoN for a long, long time and while we eventually got a Final Fantasy VII section, that was only after all of the games released in English were covered before it. Granted, I do not recollect a time when we lacked a Final Fantasy Tactics forum, but I think Final Fantasy Tactics is closer in overall style to the S.N.E.S. games than it is to the other Playstation games. I would also note that perhaps the last game we've covered just so happened to be one of Squaresoft's other S.N.E.S. games.

Less accurate, partially through semantics. The FF7 coverage was started before the initial FF1 coverage, and FF1 only finished first because it's a much smaller game. We were throwing a dozen people at things for FF7, whereas I did all of FF1 save writing the walkthrough myself (thanks, Neal! Thneal.). Also, FF2 was released in English before either FF1 or FF7 were covered, we've just never been anywhere near doing anything with FF2.

Tactics did predate both, but that was mainly because I loved it so much that I forced people to do it. I wouldn't do such a thing now, because I frankly pay more attention to the strategic goals of covering games rather than my own personal plans. Also, the last game we've covered was not a SNES game, but instead Final Fantasy IX, released just four months ago, and I have to admit I'm kinda sad that might not have been obvious. sad.gif

As an aside, it's worth noting that the PSX games were less of a priority due largely to content strategy. At the time, most of the PSX FF games had various levels of coverage on a dozen sites, some good, some bad. We kept to our niche a bit and covered the less trendy games explicitly because we didn't feel the need to compete for eyeballs with some of those other sites (most of which, of course, are now either dead or pretty weedy).

Now, moving on a bit.

Quote (Spooniest)
But what's the site's point? Final Fantasy VI right?

No! I haven't looked at the site that way since 2002. Of course, that's just my opinion, but I've worked exceedingly hard (and admittedly, in some cases failed, but probably more on that later) to try to make every portion of the site have equal standing. Why don't we cover every game? For that reason - if we don't have the resources or the commitment to treat a game with the same respect we treated FF6 for the first three to five years of the site's existence, we aren't going to do it.

Quote (Spooniest)
But you guys are taciturn in the extreme, especially as regards FF6 itself, and especially in the last 4 years.

Not sure what to do about this for you. Honestly, a couple of your last couple threads in the FF6 forum have felt kind of bizarre to me, and I'm personally not sure what you're trying to get at with them. I can't speak for other folks, but I don't have time - or, frankly, the attention span - to parse through long chunks of text and respond in kind. I'm sorry I can't do it.

Quote (Spooniest)
When...2014? Huh? I posted that thread.

Yeah, and I was linking to my post within it to reiterate my stance on why you or others might feel that you're having trouble engaging conversation on the forums. Those points are still salient, IMO, because I've thought about them quite a lot over the years as community traffic has trended downward. My main thrust there is that you shouldn't take the topic of this thread personally, because the forums are quiet and have been for a while, and it's not specific to you.

Quote (Spooniest)
*notes about types and goals of media*

I see what you're trying to get at here, don't worry. Been in the media for most of my career, and before that studied it as well (degree in Communications, with failed attempts to minor in art history and economics, which help my point a little less tongue.gif )

Quote (Spooniest)
Do you have some kind of idea of your goal as source of interactive entertainment for people?

Honestly? Not so much. We're not really a source of interactive entertainment for people. We offer a few things up in that regard, but it's never been the core mission of the site, as I'm certain I've said somewhere around here many times. Not that I'm faulting you for not having seen me say it, don't get me wrong, but to ask that question does imply that you're thinking CoN is something I personally don't think it is. Which viewpoint is right? Well, everyone will have their own opinion.

Quote (Spooniest)
It is called the "Caves of Narshe."

And if I had to do it all over again, and I knew that I'd still be emotionally invested in it in the year 2017, it wouldn't be. I don't know what it would be called, but that's unimportant. If I'd known what the site was going to become over the last half of the naughts, and what significant parts of that heyday still persist, I would have done something different. I know this is a nitpick to call out, but you hang a lot of your argument on it going forward, at least the parts where you're not educating us on music (?).

Quote (Spooniest)
Your site design is minimalistic in its default mode that a new user sees. It looks like plastic. That probably was very easy for you to make, but it is not exactly attractive or suggestive of a feeling, and it is probably not what a FF6 fan thinks of when they hear the words "Caves of Narshe." Notice that nothing in FF6 is ever made of plastic.

Look, at the end of the day, I'm not a game developer, a game artist, a composer. I'm a web designer, a software engineer, an information architect. I could probably do a lot of the code work in simple game development, but I would never step up and say that I could create concept art or music for a game, because that's not and never will be my skillset. Just the same, I don't think most people in those fields would come to me and say "this is what you're doing wrong," either. I feel like most people who are experts in a specific field - like I hope that I am in mine - understand through building that expertise how little they truly know in other disciplines.

I don't think it looks like plastic. I think it looks like a minimal and usable design, kept bright and sparse in as many places as possible to allow the user to focus on the content of the site and not just its design. There are parts of it that are a little bit dated now, such as the early-2010s Apple-style glossiness of the logo and logotype, but those are things that we were looking into adapting well before this thread. The other major pieces of design strive to keep the design from being too antiseptic by leveraging art and color from the games themselves, as well as bespoke art that not only calls back to the site's history, but also to our tradition of keeping a large fanart gallery for our users as well. It is, in short, decidedly not Final Fantasy. It is Caves of Narshe. I'm not trying to make this site feel like you're actually in the Caves of Narshe, I'm trying to make the site feel like it's easy to read and that you're going to find the information you're looking for quickly and easily. This is the one part in this thread where I start to lose a little patience with you, because you both state that it is unattractive, and then condescend to tell me that it was very easy for me to make. Now, I'm not going to berate you any further on this, or demand an apology, or ban you for voicing that opinion. It's yours to make, but I consider it a pretty cheap shot and at least in terms of "ease," well, well off the mark.

We've even encountered your idea before, one of making the site feel more like Narshe. It was before you joined, so no fault to you for missing it. Read here enough, and you'll see me, Neal, and Tiddles all address the idea as a generally positive one. As Tiddles says, "a cave theme might be kind of nice if we did it right," and maybe we could come up with something that I would like and not find to be a cliche that would still meet the needs of the content of the site. Heck, if I were making some sort of FF6-themed microsite right now, I'd probably riff on that idea exactly, because there are parts of that theme that would lend themselves very well indeed to a site in miniature. I've been doing something kind of similar lately for another project, which is a part of why I haven't been as active here as normal lately. Anyway, off the top of my head, I struggle to come up with anything that would power an entire site within that theme and not just look like the worst of early-2000s, tables upon tables upon tables layouts. I don't think Sakaguchi or Uematsu are likely to mind or think I did injustice to their work. smile.gif

I think that catches me up with the thread, and I rather hope that everyone who might read it gets that my intention is not to flip out about any of this (except perhaps that one little blip of condescension, but I'm only human), but instead to try to make sense of what I see to be an incomplete conclusion to what might be a flawed hypothesis. But if you've gotten this far in the thread, you can go a bit further and let me elaborate a bit on what I would like to see happen in terms of things that would help increase site engagement and push it a little further towards that "interactive entertainment" notion. These might go into the weeds a little into overall content strategy, so sorry to anyone who finds their eyes glazing over.

  • I'd like to have help with contribution of news articles. I wrote the last eighteen in a row, with EvilEye and Death Penalty doing the two before that (because I begged them, having no time to do those posts myself on the days they were posted, and they were kind enough to do so). Why news? Because news is something that keeps content fresh, and it's something that is in theory sharable.
  • I'd love to have some folks on board to help collect other interesting content that we can share both within the community and on social media. I don't want to get too much into detail on that currently, but I have ideas of things I'd like to do in this regard but simply do not have time or the right skillset to fully manage.
  • Increasing the amount of community submissions by way of having help funneling content from outside to the site. I go to fanart first on this, because I'm a visual person and I think there is far more quality visual art produced every day than written art, but I also don't have the time to reach out to artists to try to solicit existing or new art either.
  • Having a community manager that can focus on building the community both on the site and via social media acquisition would be wonderful. I'm not a community manager. That's not a job I'm good at, it's just one I fell into over time. It didn't matter until recently because organic community growth was plenty to sustain us, but the fragmentation of the potential audience for a site like ours means that organic just doesn't do the job any more.
  • I'd love to be able to lower the bar to entry for the community by making it easier to create a CoN account by way of linking it to your social media accounts. This is a project I started months ago but ran out of steam and haven't been able to get back to, partially because I can't speculate whether it would have a measurable impact. Of course, modern forums have this kind of functionality out of the box, but the idea of attempting to massage the last fifteen years of these forums into a new model is itself an extremely daunting proposition.


I think, and I will say again that I consider myself a fairly-talented layperson in these matters but no true expert, that all of these things have far greater potential upside for stabilizing the community than creating a site design that happens to look like the name of the site. However, I think I'm pretty clear in saying I can't necessarily do most of those things and that I'd love to have help. Suggestions are always welcome, at least when they're not "hey you should cover <game> because I like it!" from folks who post that and then never come back to the site, but what is better than a suggestion is concrete help, and those requests appear to have fallen on deaf ears over the last few years.

So, to wrap up, I'm still not 100% sure if the impetus of this thread was to actually try to get people talking about what can be done, or mainly just a rant about your posts not getting the replies you want, Spooniest. But I hope this helps in some way, whatever you're looking for. I may not always have much to say about FF6, personally, but I have spent a lot more time thinking about this site over the last 20 years than I have an individual video game, no matter how fantastic that game is - so this is what I have to offer.

This post has been edited by Rangers51 on 26th January 2017 16:14

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?
Post #212022
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Posted: 27th January 2017 20:55

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Black Waltz
Posts: 900

Joined: 12/7/2011

Awards:
Member of more than ten years. Celebrated the CoN 20th Anniversary at the forums. Member of more than five years. User has rated 25 fanarts in the CoN galleries. 
If I were to look back at the ideas in my head at the moment, I'd be going down quite the rabbit hole.

Loss is a funny thing. It shifts your mind into adaptability mode, and once your mind goes overboard on adaptability to new information, and that new information is difficult or impossible to adapt to (especially in the current world circumstances people are facing), then a mind simply begins to short-circuit in terms of rational thought on things.

At those times, when rational thought is not available, emotion and instinct drive a person.

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Hm.

1. News Submissions being written is something I can do. I have a general idea of what constitutes journalistic voice.

2. Other interesting content does not have to simply be found, it can also be created...my problem is simply that I have never had an editor.

3. Stimulating site submissions seems like a simple matter to me: ask for them. You have a Soda Giveaway going on...what about a fanart contest, with a reward that does not impact anyone financially? Like, "Winner of the CoN Spring FanArt Contest" could be placed on their signature? Idk. I guess it's an investment of coding, and time is money...and it's only one type of idea that might help with such a thing.

4. A "Community Manager" is what I consider to be a euphemism for "Leader." You are essentially talking about crowning a Monarch, electing a President or Prime Minister, or other such abstract concepts. I am suited to none of these (painfully obvious I know), but those kinds of qualities will serve in that position.

5. As long as we don't get a bunch of LolCats and political bullshit going on, I think it'll be fine for people to sign up with Facebook.

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I do feel like apologizing for my terseness and lack of delicacy. I am an artist; artists live in ostracism or not at all. Ostracism is not generally conducive to social skillsets.

Hm...so, what I'm saying in a nutshell is, "Well, I could probably be enticed into writing a news article or two, but I never know when there's news, how do I do that?"

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X is blue.
Post #212032
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Posted: 29th January 2017 16:21

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Totes Adorbs
Posts: 9,223

Joined: 31/7/1997

Awards:
Second place in the CoN World Cup soccer competition, 2018. First place in CoNCAA, 2018. Celebrated the CoN 20th Anniversary at the forums. Vital involvement in the Final Fantasy IX section of CoN. 
First place in the CoN Euro Cup soccer competition, 2016. Voted for all the fanart in the CoNvent Calendar 2015. Voted for all the fanart in the CoNvent Calendar 2014. Third place in the CoN World Cup fantasy game for 2014. 
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2. Other interesting content does not have to simply be found, it can also be created...


Yes, content can be created. It's far easier to have someone who can go out and find content, though, than to rely on one or a half-dozen people to create brand-new content. Both would be good.

Quote (Spooniest)
3. Stimulating site submissions seems like a simple matter to me: ask for them. You have a Soda Giveaway going on...what about a fanart contest, with a reward that does not impact anyone financially? Like, "Winner of the CoN Spring FanArt Contest" could be placed on their signature? Idk. I guess it's an investment of coding, and time is money...and it's only one type of idea that might help with such a thing.


We've done this a couple times, financially and otherwise. "Asking for them" is hardly as simple a process as you make it sound, which is why I would love to have help. We once had that help and it did make it easier.

Quote (Spooniest)
4. A "Community Manager" is what I consider to be a euphemism for "Leader." You are essentially talking about crowning a Monarch, electing a President or Prime Minister, or other such abstract concepts.


No... I don't think so. Can't really say much more than I disagree with that entirely. I think this explains more of what I would be looking for: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_community_manager

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?
Post #212041
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