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For me:Hojo.

Hojo i think is actually worse than kefka and emperor palomecia.He is just plain evil.-

His acts alone already commited 3 crimes in 1:

Human experimentation subjects:Isn't there a law against this without some sort of go ahead that it is safe?

2:Experimenting on your wife causing complications and death:He caused his wife to die and his son to be a mutant, and that is really sick.

3:He went against shinra's wishes and was helping sephiroth, so he's also a traitor and a spy.

Overall:he is sick and crazy, and has no qualms about experimenting on people for his own success.He is clearly mad, cause someone doing something like that is so inhumane that its sick.

Cid from ff6 was pretty bad for allowing things to go on as they did, but i think hojo is worse.

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Hmmm well I do not know much about Hojo, but I pretty much sympathize with Cid. He had no idea what he was doing (at least that is the impression I got). Zemus is pretty evil, but I still say Kefka wins.

There has been about a thousand debates about this already on CON. Not sure why you bothered making this topic. But anyway, Kefka. That is all i have to say on the matter.

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Excuse me? Would you mind not talking while I'm interupting?

Perhaps this thread should have asked about the second-most-evil character in the FF series, considering that Kefka pretty much wins the most-evil slot hands down.

That said, from what I've heard, Hojo is quite a jerk too.

This post has been edited by Glenn Magus Harvey on 30th December 2013 17:24

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Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 30th December 2013 18:24)

Perhaps this thread should have asked about the second-most-evil character in the FF series, considering that Kefka pretty much wins the most-evil slot hands down.

Yeah that's what I was thinking too. Because most of the villains in FF games have to have some redeeming quality or a motivation they're always blurring the lines between evil and necessary. I thought of one potential competitor but he doesn't come close. FFIX Spoilers below.

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Garland wants as many people to die on Gaia as possible and starts a series of wars to bring it about. Seems extremely evil and cruel. However his intentions are good because he's doing it to save his world, Terra, which would die itself.

Kefka has no motivation other than to gain power for himself. Everything he does is psychopathically regardless of anyone else. I don't think there's anyone else more evil.

Having said all that, I believe that evil and immorality are qualifiable not quantifiable, meaning for example that it's not the number of murders you do it's the act of murder itself. So in that respect Hojo is a great choice and I agree with Magitek_slayer! Kefka doesn't hurt those who are close to him because he isn't close to anybody. It's a special kind of evil that hurts those who trust and care about you, so experimenting and presumably killing his wife is a special kind of evil Kefka is incapable of doing, and therefore he would go to a deeper level of Hell.

And another point, if Hojo had the same opportunity as Kefka to murder most of the world and destroy all its plant life (the real tragedy) then there's no telling whether he would do it or not. He seems pretty capable of playing God with people's lives and he seems to lack that special human connection between compassionate people, therefore I think if a million people came between him and the Promised Land he would not be troubled if they were to die.

In a nutshell, Kefka probably has to be the most evil because he's carried out the most atrocities and destroyed the most lives. However when thinking about the characteristics that make a truly evil person I think Hojo could be a contender.

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

Quote (sweetdude @ 30th December 2013 19:56)

Kefka has no motivation other than to gain power for himself. Everything he does is psychopathically regardless of anyone else. I don't think there's anyone else more evil.

People Like Kefka because he's insane and hilairious. Also i love his theme.

You sound like lines from a self-help book!

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Excuse me? Would you mind not talking while I'm interupting?

The point is evil characters, not evil villains.These are the secondary characters who are just plain awful and lack any empathy whatsoever, and the quantifiable qualifiable thing in a nutshell on hojo.

Other entries:Shinra:I don't think he is as evil as hojo, but he is still pretty bad.All he cares about, is money and keeping the profit coming in.He is a good speaker, but he messes up big time.He should have shut down hojo when he found out, and all experiments, and despite how good a speaker he is, he needs to get things done.

Gestahl:He was a major character yes, but he wasn't the main villain.His actions were pretty bad too.He was using kefka as much as kefka was using him, and he wanted it as bad as kefka for ruling his empire and controling the world.Sure he wasn't as murderous as kefka, but he did allow a lot of bloodshed to happen, and takes in a lot of blame.

There was also that knight in tactics.He had no loyalty and sold out.He betrays ramza.

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Aeris.

No, think about it. She was evil. She ensured that Holy stopped Meteor destroying the planet, which would have prevented the Compliation. And while feelings are mixed on some of the parts of that, EVERYONE hated Surge of Derberus.

And it only happened because of Aeris. If the world went boom, no Dirge of Cerberus.

You know it makes sense. Hell, it's better than some of the rubbish people come up with to make Sephiroth out to be a good guy. We're just lucky that crazy Cetra lunatic wore a red shirt or it could all have happened a lot sooner...

Failing that?

Selphie. Her plans involve explosives and skinning a Moomba. She also refuses to let anyone else fly the spaceflight capable ship armed with machine guns and a sodding great laser gun. I am convinced that soon after the game she flew the Ragnarok around demanding that the world bow to Sky-Empress Selphie under threat of being blown to bits.

Okay, okay, it's probably Hojo, because as bad as Kefka was he was clearly insane. Most FF villains are, really, but Hojo just seems to have been perfectly aware he was being a bit of a git - and straight up didn't care. Kefka is pretty close though even with being a fruitcake.

This post has been edited by Del S on 4th January 2014 12:21

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There is a theory to which I subscribe stating that Emperor Gestahl as we know him (with the possible exception of the banquet scene) is actually Kefka creating an illusion of Gestahl, and that Gestahl is actually a good guy and later disguises himself as GoGo. Anyway, assuming he is not, I would say he is probably the most evil non-boss in the series that I have encountered. Hojo is pretty bad, too, though. I finally got FF7 so now I feel like such a big kid because now I finally know what everyone is talking about.

I'm going to answer this question in several ways. From a broad scale, and from a personal scale, and who committed the most heinous acts.

From a broad scale, Kefka. He'll stop at nothing to obtain ultimate power. Why? 'Cause screw you, that's why! His mind is totally broken as is his conscience. He's portrayed as a sadistic, but snivelling and cowardly clown throughout the first half of FFVI, and morphs into a sadistic man who, just because he thinks it's fun, toys with others' lives.

On a personal scale, I'll have to go with Sephiroth. This wouldn't have been the case, but so many media appearances later, we find that this man took our badass hero, Cloud Strife, and one timely sword-thrust later, we have the archtype for whiny FF protagonists.

The most vile, disgusting act in any FF game to date is the toughest one to answer. Kefka has a a ton of them, from Doma's poisoning, to betraying Leo, betraying Gestahl, and finally, destroying the world. Those fit well, and the Destroying The World part should be it- but it's not.

Cain Highwind. There, I said it. From my perspective, Cain's second betrayal of Cecil is the act that affected me worse than anything else. The scene itself is downplayed, Kain suddenly snatching the crystal from Cecil and leaving, the lights suddenly come back on before there's a dramatic pause and on with the show.

"But he was under Golbez's control, who was under Zemus's..."

Yeah, I know. Even at the age of 13, I realized that Cain was being directed by his own jealousy, and was only doing what was in the back of his mind to do anyway. If this scene were done in a game of today, there'd be a very well drawn cut scene, with a soprano singing in her highest note in Sanskrit while a lightning flash occurs and a stop-motion play by play of the scene takes place. The hope of finally winning the day was dashed at that point and Golbez (Zemus) would ultimately succeed, and there was nothing we could do about it.

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Quote (chevleclair @ 11th January 2014 14:31)

Cain Highwind.  There, I said it. From my perspective, Cain's second betrayal of Cecil is the act that affected me worse than anything else. The scene itself is downplayed, Kain suddenly snatching the crystal from Cecil and leaving, the lights suddenly come back on before there's a dramatic pause and on with the show.

"But he was under Golbez's control, who was under Zemus's..."

Yeah, I know. Even at the age of 13, I realized that Cain was being directed by his own jealousy, and was only doing what was in the back of his mind to do anyway. If this scene were done in a game of today, there'd be a very well drawn cut scene, with a soprano singing in her highest note in Sanskrit while a lightning flash occurs and a stop-motion play by play of the scene takes place.  The hope of finally winning the day was dashed at that point and Golbez (Zemus) would ultimately succeed, and there was nothing we could do about it.

Oh, yes. I am so glad someone else sees the evil in Kain. Like his namesake, he allows his jealousy to drive him to drastic measures. He is guilty of one of the worst kinds of covetousness -- lust for his very best friend's freaking fiancée. The only reason I do not count him as an evil character is the fact that he did go to Mt. Ordeals to cleanse himself of this, and how he turns out matters much more than how he was at the start or in the middle. I am really glad that my brother and I are not the only ones who did not fall for the tragic hero feels.

Sephiroth is convoluted as a villain.He's more crazy than evil.

Kain i think isn't as evil as a bit bad.I mean:He wants to get rid of cecil so he can be with rosa, but his conscience fights it and at the same time he tries to resist his urge to be with rosa.I think also he knows if he killed cecil, rosa would only reject him more.

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

People who think Kain is 'evil' don't understand what the word fallible means...

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I didn't say Cain was evil, I said he committed the most evil act. I am fully aware of the state of human fallliability., and its actually the case for many characters in Final Fantasy IV. Edge's pride, Edward's cowardice, Cain's jealousy, and Tellah's inability to forgive. Cecil himself committed an evil act at the beginning of the game, but that doesn't make him an evil character. The same goes for Cain.

That being said, regardless of the motivation, the act in of itself was evil. It's just the act that struck me as the most evil. If you disagree with that point then fine, it's a matter of opinion.

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"So, are you a fan of the Fett?"

"Nah, I'm more of a Star Wars guy."

Problem with declaring Kefka the most evil character is that he is not evil by choice. He is mentally insane and cannot be held accountable for his actions. Right and wrong really do not apply to him. If anything his masters are responsable for his deeds and that includes CID.

It's like someone suffering from extended exposure of syphilis. At a certain point you will lose your mind and you cannot be held accountable for your actions and need to be locked up for being a danger to yourself and others.

Mental illness is a serious issue and Kefka to me cannot be held as evil cause he cannot control himself.

Rubicante is someone I would call evil as opposed to Kefka because he knows what he is doing.


This post has been edited by His Shadow on 18th January 2014 14:56

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His Divine Shadow

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That's an interesting way of looking at Kefka. This makes his creator, Gestahl the villain, and Kefka more akin to the monster that turns on its master. Yes, Kefka shows forms of madness, including schizophrenia with multiple delusions, but he, above all, is a sociopath. As a matter off fact, the lack of accountability for his actions MAKE him more evil.

Going by that logic, Rubicante is a demon, and all he knows is evil. While he has a sense of honor, he was created to pervert things such as honor and justice- to show the inverse of Edge's pride. I would say that, in the game, if one of the Fiends had shown some good, I would have totally agreed with you.

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"So, are you a fan of the Fett?"

"Nah, I'm more of a Star Wars guy."

Be careful not to confuse an individual's refusal to account for his actions with him being of a mental capacity which renders it unreasonable to hold him accountable. They're not quite the same thing.

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Quote (Stiltzkin @ 18th January 2014 14:11)

Be careful not to confuse an individual's refusal to account for his actions with him being of a mental capacity which renders it unreasonable to hold him accountable. They're not quite the same thing.

But Kefka was exposed and the experiments in him caused him to become what he is.

Let's say if you were injected with a drug or exposed to an STD like syphlisis in which the end result is madness. Knowing how you are people would consider you evil if you went out and murdered someone but can you be held accountable? You might want to kill someone but again you as you were are no more.

You have no real control over your actions and what you do.


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His Divine Shadow

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I fear you've completely misunderstood me there, His Shadow. I was referring to chevleclair associating Kefka's lack of accountability with your statement that Kefka can't be held accountable as if they were the same. They aren't. One is refusing to accept that you have done wrong, the other is being incapable of accepting it.

However, I do disagree with your stance. When we talk about people suffering from insanity and not being able to be held accountable, it is because their insanity has resulted in a separation from reality or some element of delusion. In short, the person cannot be held accountable because they are so far gone that, for example, they believe they've killed an evil body-snatching alien instead of their wife.

Kefka doesn't have this. He may be mad, but he still maintains full capacity over his actions. He knows exactly what he is doing, and exactly what it means - he just doesn't care. Sure, he's been driven to insanity to the point that he has no remorse, no conscience, and a desire to see the world burn - but crucially, he is in complete control of himself.

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I disagree completely.Kefka did some really evil things.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSrZGHtwNjU Kefka tells terra to kill guards for his own entertainment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAVlZ38uK7E Kefka threatens to burn down figaro.You may not find that threatening, but i think when you consider what he's done, this is a pretty big threat.He is foiled comically sure, and hides behind men, but he seems pretty psychopathic here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1YO_Qkwj1E attack on thamasa he not only kills and burns for his own entertainment, he enjoys every bit of it.

All this leads me to believe that kefka is clearly devoid of any empathy and is a psychopath.He may be crazy, but there is no doubt that he is also a psychopath.

Sephiroth though i have doubts about wether he was evil or not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPK6hVeKbAA Skip to 3:03.It is kind of funny how sephiroth just ignores cloud, and from this, i get that he is crazy.I could see him singing:ZIPPITY DOO DAH ZIPPITY AYE!! as he kills people. http://www.youtube.com/results?search_quer...oo%20dah&sm=3.I could just imagine sephiroth singing this song while murdering people and smiling in a kind of crazy way.

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

As like most other folks on here, I'm going with Kefka. He did terrible stuff the entire way through the game, showing no empathy and tending to revel in his sadistic actions. The poisoning of Doma was pretty cold blooded.

Sephiroth was ruthless, IMO.

Cain/Kain? Probably my favorite character of the entire FF series because he was so human and flawed. The only other that comes close is Mog because he's freaking adorable and only terrible, horrible, no good, very bad people don't like moogles.

Quote (Stiltzkin @ 18th January 2014 16:46)

I fear you've completely misunderstood me there, His Shadow. I was referring to chevleclair associating Kefka's lack of accountability with your statement that Kefka can't be held accountable as if they were the same. They aren't. One is refusing to accept that you have done wrong, the other is being incapable of accepting it.

However, I do disagree with your stance. When we talk about people suffering from insanity and not being able to be held accountable, it is because their insanity has resulted in a separation from reality or some element of delusion. In short, the person cannot be held accountable because they are so far gone that, for example, they believe they've killed an evil body-snatching alien instead of their wife.

Kefka doesn't have this. He may be mad, but he still maintains full capacity over his actions. He knows exactly what he is doing, and exactly what it means - he just doesn't care. Sure, he's been driven to insanity to the point that he has no remorse, no conscience, and a desire to see the world burn - but crucially, he is in complete control of himself.

I agree with Stiltzkin here. In order to discuss this, we should draw a line between mental disorders and psychopathy. To say he had some sort of "madness" is to say that he had a form of psychosis, like schizophrenia or bipolar disorder. This would mean that this person would not be responsible for his actions. Of course, it would also likely mean that he wouldn't have been able to function by himself. The same would have likely been true if he were caught up in some type of accident.

There's no doubt that the experiment changed him, but it might not have been through some disorder. To me, it is likely that the increased power, mixed perhaps with the pain of the experiment (which is what I assumed they meant by the experiment being imperfect), his external circumstances began to influence his behavior.

One would point to the poisoning or the Light of Judgment use to prove his insanity, but you have to remember that those types of things have been done by people that did not have mental disorders. This is a man who perhaps had been considering himself more advanced than other humans. He had certainly elevated himself above other people, and because of this he became alienated from things such as empathy. Why care about the people of Doma, a bunch of backward people that are standing in his way?

It's also worth noting that there are only two instances in the game when Kefka is directly killing someone. Most of the others are from a distance. Much like the president and the use of drones, Kefka is often removed from the results of his attacks.

Comparing the two, I always thought that Sephiroth was the one more deserving of absolution of blame for his actions.

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I'll reserve judgment on the most evil. Did you mean who was able to commit the most evil acts? Most destructive? Most intent of harm?

I'd argue in their universes/timelines they're equally evil.

>>> Avoiding your common set-up.

Don't you think that if some of the characters swapped roles they'd be doing the same thing?

Edit-PM sent to magitek-slayer. Is this satisfactory?

This post has been edited by Eagle Caller on 19th November 2014 13:03

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Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 17th January 2014 09:34)

Sephiroth is convoluted as a villain. He's more crazy than evil.

So "crazy" is an excuse for Sephiroth, but not Kefka?
Man, them bishonen looks have their perks.



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