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I think that the abandonment of fantasy is leaving modern squeenix games less fantasy like and more sci fi.

I also think that modern squeenix games are becoming too centered on cutscenes to tell the story, rather than slowly unraveling it and immersing the player.Modern ff games simply don't feel immersive like the old games were.I may have hated on 7 in the past, but i think its far superior to FFXIII, and execution in 7 is better than x and XIII.X spends too much time sitting around talking about how much better the world would be without sin.It doesn't help the fact that FFX uses the same enemies over and over, and there is not much else to do early on except follow the story till you get to the open world.You can play blitzball later on, but won't have access to all characters.

In my opinion:The series started to seriously plummet with FFX.

Cutscenes:It seems like every japanese game designer wants to be a movie director, and forgets they are making videogames and not movies.Hideo kojima suffers from that issue.

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

I disagree.
I prefer sci-fi settings to medieval ones, and in general find the modern stories and gameplay more entertaining.
I think the only thing the older games did better was exploration, but even then there are exceptions-I think XII has some of the best environments in the series.


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FF games completed: I (psp), II (psp), III (DS), IV (psp), V (GBA), VI (GBA), VII, VIII, IX, X, XI: Nations-Rhapsodies of Vana'diel, XII, XIII, XIV, XV.
Spin-offs: FFIV: Interlude & The After Years, Crisis Core: FFVII, X-2, XIII-2, Lightning Returns, Type-0 HD, Dissidia, Dissidia 012, and Tactics (original & WotL).
Enjoyed them all.

I personally believe that ff series is too sci fi.In FFXIII and FF8 every character was human.Next thing we know, we will be paying call of duty game instead of final fantasy, with guns and level ups, except we will have terrible japanese soap opera.

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 12th November 2013 14:26)

we will have terrible japanese  soap opera.

Hey I like FF games!

There's not really a trend of being more sci-fi I don't think. The only purely sci-fi FF game is VIII and you can still argue that parts of it are not. There's sci-fi elements in VI, VII, VIII, X, and XIII, but IX and XII are much more fantasy, so I don't think there's a trend. Strict fantasy games are much more common in games in general, especially RPGs; I really like games that try and mix the genres up. There's nothing wrong with combining swords, magic, guns, robots, spaceships and lasers.

This post has been edited by sweetdude on 12th November 2013 14:46

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

XII has non humans as well to talk to, as does ff9 and ff6.

Heck:FF6 still has loads of fantasy elements in it, but ff8 is 100% humans team, and there are almost no creatures at all that you can communicate with, except norg and his shumi tribe.In FFXIII, there are no creatures i can think of at the top of my head you communicate with.You don't really communicate with the chocobo, and you don't really roleplay at all either.You mostly just follow the instructions on how to reach the next cutscene and then:CUTSCENE!!

FF6 mixed swords and sorcery, and it fits because the world looks like its the 1700's, and guns sucked then.You also hardly ever see any guns at all, except the magitek armor and the big cannons.

In ff7, you have guns and cannons, but it just barely works.

In FFXIII i seriously wonder why bother having a sword if you have modern day guns and airships?

This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 13th November 2013 22:02

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Funny, I seem to remember one of the characters in FF9 having a bloody TAIL.

pst magi. FFX is better than VI and VII

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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens

We are talking about FF8 and FFX and FFXIII.

Also:I'd rather play ff6 ff4 ff tactics, ff9 and chrono trigger over FFX.

Actually:FFX also has those blue creatures and a few fantastic creatures, but FFXIII are all humans, as is ff8.FF8 and XIII are the least fantasy of the bunch.

This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 12th November 2013 18:04

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 12th November 2013 15:13)

Heck:FF6 still has loads of fantasy elements in it, but ff9 is 100% humans team

Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out

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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens

Quote (Blinge Odonata @ 12th November 2013 19:08)

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 12th November 2013 15:13)

Heck:FF6 still has loads of fantasy elements in it, but ff9 is 100% humans team

Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out

I think he meant FFVIII not IX there. Norg and the Shumi tribe were in that game.

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

Quote

In FFXIII and FF8 every character was human.

Fantasy need not include all sorts of crazy fantasy races/species. It's entirely possible to have fantasy with just humans. And to some extent I think I like it better that way; no strange undertones of racism (etc.) to deal with.

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current games (2024-02-19):
Fairy Fencer F ADF
Pokémon Perfect Crystal

finished so far this year:
Gato Roboto
drowning, drowning
New Super Mario Bros.
TMNT 3: Radical Rescue

tabled: Lost Ruins

Quote (Blinge Odonata @ 12th November 2013 18:08)

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 12th November 2013 15:13)

Heck:FF6 still has loads of fantasy elements in it, but ff9 is 100% humans team

Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out

You also forgot all the strange creatures in alexandria as well.I put ff9 instead of FF8, so its a miss type.Also:I am not a fan of the way modern ff games work so far.There is no true sense of wonder, and i truly miss fantasy from ff9 and under.I have yet to try XII, and it looks to have fantasy.

I don't completely hate sci fi, but i'm not for 100% realism either.I like mixtures.I do prefer mid evil setting over futuristic though.

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Is it me, or has this argument become circular?

I am asking my fellow friends here if any of them think that the series has gone downhill.

The reason is:We used to have good square games.Parasite eve 1 for an example is a very good game, as is ff tactics.I haven't played chrono chross, but i heard both good and bad about it, and am curious.

And if there are good square enix games, which do you guys think they are, and where?
Are they on handhelds? are they no final fantasy?

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Don't you think it's better to light a candle than curse the darkness?

If you have better ideas, let's talk about it! Toss and Kasa can look in on the forums if they want to... ;J

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X is blue.

Quote (Spooniest @ 14th November 2013 01:32)

Don't you think it's better to light a candle than curse the darkness?

If you have better ideas, let's talk about it! Toss and Kasa can look in on the forums if they want to... ;J

I'm confused spoony.

Are you saying that its best to ignore the ff games you don't like and only pay attention to the ones you like and not talk about the ones you like?

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

I think all of you should watch some Mister Rogers before continuing.

I think you need to speak more clearly here.

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

I actually think that people need to generally stop telling everyone else how to post. That's actually my job, as it turns out!

Now, to the actual topic, since it seems like it's generally been forgotten in lieu of discussing typos, philosophical platitudes, and how best to post: I don't believe that Square Enix games have "become bad," because I still enjoy the newer Square Enix games that I have played. Since that's my opinion, that is, strictly speaking, all I need to say on the matter; however, I'm happy to elaborate a bit since the way these threads tend to go will require it in the end.

First, I think that "fantasy," described as a genre, completely includes most everything the Final Fantasy series has done, whether it's medieval, steampunk, or straight up futurism fantasy. I think this small chunk of Wikipedia explains it better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_fanta...science_fiction . You can like the science fantasy games, or dislike them, but I think it's semantics to say that the series abandoned anything. While it might be fun to argue semantics, it's the very kind of debate that gets tiresome very quickly.

Second, I agree with what sweetdude was saying, which probably stands to reason given the last paragraph - there are plenty of games that stick to one sort of setting or another throughout their lifespans, and that's great. Elder Scrolls games, for instance, are not likely to suddenly end up throwing your character into a modern metropolis. Odds are you're not going to see anything ever show up in the Mass Effect universe that requires you to carry a lance and joust from horseback. That's not what makes those series great, but it does indicate that you know partially what you're going to get when you start one up (of course, in the examples I gave, that's partially because the games in the series continue previous games either directly or referentially, but that's not really the point here). I rather like that Final Fantasy has distanced themselves from that a bit, and it makes it possible for me to really enjoy both Final Fantasy IV and Final Fantasy XIII.

I think that there are very good Square Enix games, or there are games that they've produced that appeal to me even if I've not had the chance to play them. I've said in multiple places that I enjoy Final Fantasy XIII. I wouldn't have 90+ hours in a game that is all cutscenes, in my opinion, but that's not here or there. I thought that Final Fantasy XIV looked very solid from my time spent in the beta, and I would absolutely give it another try if my time (and utter cheapness) allowed me to play a MMO. Bravely Default and Type-0 look like they'd be games I'd enjoy if I had a chance to play them. There are probably more I'm forgetting, even.

That's not to say that I'm going to claim that 2013 Square Enix is the best the company's ever been. There aren't many people who would make the argument that the company is making better games now than they did in the 90's, and I'm certainly not one of them. The thing is, though, you don't have to choose just one if you're not forced to see everything in black and white. Enjoying Final Fantasy XIII doesn't mean I can't enjoy Parasite Eve (which has been one of my favorite Square games since the day it came out). Enjoying Parasite Eve doesn't mean I can't like Final Fantasy I. But even though I think the question itself isn't particularly one that I'd ask myself, and I don't think the binary nature of it is particularly valuable, I'll answer it for you as you asked: no. Square Enix games are not becoming "bad."

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

I'm sorry i, i wasn't trying to moderate or anything, its just that i was confused with what ravenblonde and spoony said, and didn't understand what he was trying to get to.What does watching mr rogers have to do with this topic? and what does cursing the darkness or building light have to do with this topic?

The problem isn't that FFXIII is different, but that it took out the towns and exploration for the most part, and installed fetch quests at the end, thinking that that would be enough.


Sci fi futuristic setting isn't a problem as long as its done in an entertaining way.I guess that means that the first 2 mass effects are good since people actually like it.

Third:Was the series better with the previous head of square before he left?

This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 15th November 2013 16:03

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (RavenLalonde @ 14th November 2013 16:43)

I think all of you should watch some Mister Rogers before continuing.

LOL that is just hilarious I'm sorry

Moderator Edit

Glad you think so. However, it's completely not on topic, and that's pretty frustrating to me because I thought I was being pretty clear in my own post about it. Please don't post unless you have something to say on the topic, or else there's no point in having a topic. -R51

This post has been edited by Rangers51 on 15th November 2013 18:40

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So Zetta Slow!

I personally think that adding new things isn't a bad thing.

FFXII looks interesting and i am really tempted to buy it, but i fear that i will lose interest in it because i heard about the characters and story being lackluster.I care very much about the story in a game.

The problem is while fiddling with devices to create something new, you break something that wasn't broken(FFXIII) The reason i call it broken isn't just because of the paradigm, but because its a downgraded version of the FFX sphere system, but more linear and less choices.Sure i gave FFX a little slack, but it feels like that system could use some more tweaking.In the end, you can't even control the characters.

FFXII at least allowed you to give orders to your entire team, like dao did, but earlier.This is actually a very interesting idea.

I do admit though that i ended up liking dissidia.

I just think that The final fantasy series throws out a lot of games really quickly, and sometimes there are some glaring mistakes in them.One thing i will give square enix, is that they never play it safe, which is a good thing.FFXIII wasn't playing it safe at all, because it clearly did change the formula, even if some did not like it.I am concerned as well with the parasite eve series.I hear that the third birthday is suffering from an identity crisis.I think also that the makers of FF are depending too much on cgi cutscenes for story telling, and it makes for poor storytelling on its own.

I heard that the third game became a shooter instead of an rpg.I can't be sure though.i will have to see if i can get a demo.If any of you who played dissidia12 and third birthday wish to add something, please do.It will make this conversation interesting.

Now for non FF games:Dungeon siege series:Anyone here play it?

What about the kingdom hearts? I hear good things about kh1 and 2, not sure about 3

SE seems to be running strong still if it has so many games.Do you think it will last?

Those dungeon siege games must have done really well if there are now 3.

This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 16th November 2013 21:57

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Son of a...damn you. You made the topic opposite of the question and i voted no instead of yes. Grrrrrr.

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Chewbekah ^_^

Currently Playing: Final Fantasy XIV: ARR, Attack of the Firday Monsters, Animal Crossing: A New Leaf, Lego City Undercover, Kingdom Hearts 1.5 Remix

Recently Finished: Fire Emblem: Awakening

Favorite Game: Suikoden III

What does everyone here think about chrono cross?
Dissidia 12?

FFXIV? give me some info folks.I hear that it was improved.How was it improved?

Third Birthday anyone play? Are the rumors true that it became a shooter instead of a survival horror rpg?

Dungeon Siege series:Anyone play?



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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

I think it would be great for people who played those games to possibly use them as examples to answer your question, but asking about all of them specifically and individually doesn't really have anything to do with the topic you created, does it?

There are topics already about some of the games you mentioned and might answer some of your questions:

http://www.cavesofnarshe.com/forums/ipb/in...showtopic=16346
http://www.cavesofnarshe.com/forums/ipb/in...showtopic=15459
http://www.cavesofnarshe.com/forums/ipb/in...showtopic=14845

Might be worth discussing them there or in new threads rather than to keep asking here knowing that you're not getting answers.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

Voted never liked Square, those b*tards * shakes fist in a old grandfather get of my lawn type manner *

Just kidding of course


The answer being serious now ? Yes and no. Some of the newer Square games are absolutely amazing, Final Fantasy IV DS for a pure example. And then on the poop side of the fence, there's games that are average, flawed and messy.

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Top Three fave Final Fantasies Final Fantasy VIII, Final Fantasy IX, Final Fantasy V [ GBA ]

Bad, no. Not a word I'd use to describe them. They're still good entertainment. But that's the problem... too much "entertainment".

Too many sidegames in the PSX versions, like that card game in VIII and Blitzball in X.

Too much video and not enough gameplay in XIII.

But bad games, not really.

In my case, I suspect it's just that newer games may speak to themes or ideas that aren't immediately relevant to me anymore--or at least aren't new to me. When I was much younger, games like FFIV or FFVI were the first places I saw certain concepts addressed in an entertainment setting, so the appeal was very strong.

I think if I were younger and I encountered some of the newer games first, those might have held the same appeal, but instead they only mildly interest me because they don't constitute a formative experience for me. YMMV, though, as ever.

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This is a signature. You might think that there is something to it...but in fact it is just an ordinary signature.

*Reads thread title.

*Reads poll title.

...



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Arts

Farts

Twarts

With respect to those who like the later titles, I have a dislike for nearly everything about Final Fantasy since FFVIII.

There's just so much about these games I don't like. Whether it's the whiny and ineffectual protagonists (VIII, X, XI and XIII), overlong and pointlessly complicated move sets (VIII, IX, XII,XIII), ungodly long and often pointless cutscenes (All of them, but VIII is absolutely the worst), and the sacrifice of character development for sex appeal (VIII, X, XII, and XIII).

Again, you may disagree with these statements, these are just my opinions.

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"So, are you a fan of the Fett?"

"Nah, I'm more of a Star Wars guy."

I tolerated VIII really well despite it's obvious flaws and put quite a bit of time in it.

IX had it's merits, but I didn't feel it brought a whole lot of anything new to the table. Regardless, I Beatrix.

X had a really cool battle system but that was the end of the series for me. While I really should be over this by now, I was completely infuriated by the Dark Aeons being removed from the NA version. When I found out that I was going to have to mod a PS2 and buy another copy of the game just to have a reason to max my characters out I was pretty much done with FF for everything after that.

I did play XI (online) for a while. Several months, anyway but I've never played X-2 or XII or anything after that.