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Gaming with too much self-awareness

Posted: 9th February 2017 17:27

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I like immersive gaming experiences, and I'm sure some of you also do.

And I've been finding a problem with my recent experiences. I'm finding it less easy to immerse myself. To really lose myself in a story.

I think that some of it may be because I'm too "self-aware" when I'm playing games.

Like, when I was younger, gaming was just something I wanted to do. I just went and did it. And besides, I didn't really have a great choice of games so I just played what I had. That doesn't mean I enjoyed everything equally, but it does mean that when I found something I enjoyed, I really got into it.

But nowadays I think there's been a problem. I just feel like my ability to get "into" something has been diminished, and I'm trying to figure out why. Possible reasons:
  • Maybe I'm too organized? Whenever I'm playing a game, it's usually a conscious choice (even if one serving a personal desire), and not an impulse. Like, I rarely "accidentally" start playing a game. And incidentally, the most recent two times I really had a strongly immersive experience, are times when I did "accidentally" start playing a game in the sense that I just sorta randomly turned to it while procrastinating and then I lost a bunch of sleep over them and it probably wasn't very healthy (and certainly not productive! at least in the short run) for me but boy did those experiences leave some very fond memories.
  • Maybe I have too many other things in my life to worry about? Like, I feel increasingly that I have the problem where I feel like I just can't "let myself go" and lose myself in a game, despite really wanting to do so sometimes.
  • Maybe I have too many games? So basically any time I'm playing a game, especially when it's a conscious choice (see above point), I'm more or less aware that there was some sort of opportunity cost in it, that I'm not playing some other game I also want to play. Make that a lot of other games. I do keep lists of games I'm interested in playing, which used to be not much of a big deal (not much of any deal, really), but now it's like, maybe I'm spending too much time thinking of the question of whether something was a good use of my time. I've occasionally thought about uninstalling most things and just "locking myself in" with a few games to choose from at any given time -- and I've kinda done that (e.g. only a very small portion of my Steam library is installed at any given time).
  • Maybe I've played too many games so I'm a bit too genre-savvy? Sometimes I feel that going into a game blind seems to really help. So that I'm not, like, aware of the possibility of missables, or the possibility of not optimizing my character's stats/equipment/skills properly, or the possibility of needing to backtrack later to pick up items, and so on, and thus so that I'm not doing things that don't make sense in the story/narrative in order to serve these purposes (e.g. there's a huge battle going on! I should go talk to all the townsfolk first and spend forever upgrading my gear before I join it because they'll obviously wait for me).
  • Maybe I should talk to people less about games? I know that for a few months I roomed with a friend who also likes games and other "geeky stuff" some of which I also like (e.g. anime, board games, etc.), and he's a cool guy, but during the time I roomed with him, he engaged in/consumed/whateverwordyouwannause his hobbies almost constantly, and as a result I felt kinda turned off from them. So maybe I need to "desaturate" or otherwise pace myself with regards to gaming experiences so I go back to feeling a need for them in my life? Or something like that. Kinda related to the "too many games" thing.
  • Maybe I just need some other "momentum" in my life. I remember my formative childhood experiences weren't just games by themselves, but very often they were games paired with other experiences that I felt related to them. (Only one was just about the game itself.) So maybe I should change up something else in my life so that there's less time for me to mull over games and more time for me to see them as a side-story accompanying me or something like that.


Note: this thread is not meant to ask you to diagnose whatever. Just a thread to discuss experiences and maybe exchange thoughts on them. Ironically, more self-awareness about gaming, lol. But whatever.

This post has been edited by Glenn Magus Harvey on 9th February 2017 17:32

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Posted: 9th February 2017 21:11

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The constant lists probably don't help wink.gif

Humans tend to make decisions based more on emotion and impulse than logic anyway.

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Posted: 9th February 2017 22:35

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happened to me.Some games i can take in short bursts and i haven't been able to play games more than once.

Only some games i really like, like dark souls i can play multiple times.

The ff series is especially this way.

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Posted: 9th February 2017 23:08

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I don't think it's you, Glenn. Much like Hollywood, the Gaming Industry has become a monster.

Bad writing/dialogue, predictable stories, rehashed characters and bad production values combined with a watered-down talent pool and conservative approach is the culprit.

Sure, as we get older, we find it harder to immerse ourselves in escapism, hopefully that's a part of the self-awareness you describe.

The only game that sucked me in completely in the past 5 years other than my Pokemon and NHL games was The Last of Us. It's one of the greatest videogames ever made, hands down, and the trailer for the recently announced sequel already has me worried about what a sequel would mean and do to it's legacy.

If you haven't played TLoU, seriously, go get it now. However possible.

But I've tried to get into quite a few newer games myself, and I'm horrified at how stupid they are. Like, dummed-down stupid. Too long and too blatant of tutorial sections, controls copy-pasted from every other game in the genre (Tomb Raider 2014 I'm looking at you) and ridiculously easy learning curves.

Or you have games like Yo-Kai Watch, that try to be unique while blatantly ripping something off and failing miserably.

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Posted: 10th February 2017 13:03

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If you actually want something to change:

Take a plunge and pick up something you're not sure about without the pre-requisite months of umming and ahhing over it. You do seem to overthink these things imo.

Leave the comfort zone by playing a genre you steer clear of usually.

If it's immersive experiences you're looking for then search for what games are considered the most immersive. So not JRPGs with menu based combat and numbers on screen then tongue.gif

I found horror games with lights off/headphones on to be rather immersive. Maybe a bit too immersive.. in Amnesia's case.
Penumbra I'd recommend, heard good things about Outlast and Dreadout.

Silent hill 1-4 I find slightly less immersive due to 3rd person perspective but they're awesome.

Quote (Dynamic Threads @ 9th February 2017 23:08)
But I've tried to get into quite a few newer games myself, and I'm horrified at how stupid they are. Like, dummed-down stupid. Too long and too blatant of tutorial sections, controls copy-pasted from every other game in the genre (Tomb Raider 2014 I'm looking at you) and ridiculously easy learning curves.

As a general note to everyone: Dark Souls bucking this trend is why it exploded in popularity.

Like it or not the series has become so influential that there's more games being released or in development following its example:
Lords of the Fallen, Salt & Sanctuary, Nioh, Eitr, Dark Maus, Titan Souls, Necropolis and Let It Die (maybe)

This post has been edited by Blinge Odonata on 10th February 2017 13:12

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Posted: 10th February 2017 13:44

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I found I wasn't getting quite what I wanted from games a short while back, so decided to take a short break from playing anything (about 3 weeks or so) and throw myself into other things, try out some new hobbies.

Picked up a couple of highly recommended books (sci-fi), tried out some more social hobbies such as rock climbing and sword fighting. Felt better for doing it and now I'm back to playing games again as normal but enjoying it more after the break.
Doesn't have to be completely unrelated of course, one of the books was Ready Player One, a lot of the subject matter revolves around video games made in the 80s. Very entertaining novel. So yes, a break might be worth considering.
Incidentally I removed myself from social media for a couple of months as well, also worth doing.

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Posted: 10th February 2017 17:26

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Quote (Blinge Odonata @ 10th February 2017 08:03)
If you actually want something to change:

Take a plunge and pick up something you're not sure about without the pre-requisite months of umming and ahhing over it. You do seem to overthink these things imo.

Leave the comfort zone by playing a genre you steer clear of usually.

If it's immersive experiences you're looking for then search for what games are considered the most immersive. So not JRPGs with menu based combat and numbers on screen then tongue.gif

I found horror games with lights off/headphones on to be rather immersive. Maybe a bit too immersive..  in Amnesia's case.
Penumbra I'd recommend, heard good things about Outlast and Dreadout.

Silent hill 1-4 I find slightly less immersive due to 3rd person perspective but they're awesome.

Quote (Dynamic Threads @ 9th February 2017 23:08)
But I've tried to get into quite a few newer games myself, and I'm horrified at how stupid they are. Like, dummed-down stupid. Too long and too blatant of tutorial sections, controls copy-pasted from every other game in the genre (Tomb Raider 2014 I'm looking at you) and ridiculously easy learning curves.

As a general note to everyone: Dark Souls bucking this trend is why it exploded in popularity.

Like it or not the series has become so influential that there's more games being released or in development following its example:
Lords of the Fallen, Salt & Sanctuary, Nioh, Eitr, Dark Maus, Titan Souls, Necropolis and Let It Die (maybe)

You know, I've been hearing about this Dark Souls on this board for several months now... But this post has convinced me to not only do some research about the game but ILLEGALLY DOWNLOAD IT and play it.

Ahahahahahaha.


Joking aside, should I start with Demon's Souls or go straight into Dark Souls? Is there much difference between the two?


This post has been edited by Dynamic Threads on 10th February 2017 17:30

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Posted: 10th February 2017 19:03

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Quote (Dynamic Threads @ 10th February 2017 11:26)
Joking aside, should I start with Demon's Souls or go straight into Dark Souls? Is there much difference between the two?

I'm sure some of the other threads that are about that series will help you there.

On the topic, GMH, having interacted with you at CoN for so long I would say that it's likely that all of your bullet points factor in.

For me, I don't find that I often have that problem and I kind of wonder if it's because none of those bullet points apply to me and where I am at the moment. For instance, I don't usually have other gamers physically near me; my wife's never been a gamer and my daughter is just starting up and usually prefers to play single-player things by herself or to just sit and watch for a few minutes. I can never invest too much in a game at any one time because I have too many other demands preventing me from doing so, including sometimes the compulsion to play other games. (I will say that I have too many games - my backlog is way too big to catch up given my time.)

One thing I have noticed, though, is that I've been more immersed in some of the larger games I've played recently, and I think it's significant that most of those games have been played on a console and not PC. If I'm playing a PC game, I am almost certainly doing something else or am at least drawn towards other things simultaneously, since my gaming PC is only a matter of feet from the PCs I use to do my job and also CoN. I might also be gaming on PC as something to occupy me while I'm riding my under-desk elliptical machine, or I might be playing online with a friend or two, which is something I never do on consoles.

I wonder, GMH, if that might change things for you too? I seem to recall that you are nearly or totally exclusively a PC gamer...

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Posted: 10th February 2017 19:48

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Quote (Dynamic Threads @ 10th February 2017 17:26)

You know, I've been hearing about this Dark Souls on this board for several months now... But this post has convinced me to not only do some research about the game but ILLEGALLY DOWNLOAD IT and play it.

Ahahahahahaha.


Joking aside, should I start with Demon's Souls or go straight into Dark Souls? Is there much difference between the two?

Haha, how you access it is up to you. I doubt DeS (demon's) is competently emulated at this time though.

I think overall that Dark is the better game in terms of world, combat & lore. There's arguments to be made both ways though.

DeS is brutal for a first timer while Dark brings some variety and quality of life improvements that make it a better initial experience imo.

But judging by your other posts here, the two games are identical tongue.gif

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Posted: 11th February 2017 04:59

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Quote (Dynamic Threads @ 9th February 2017 18:08)
I don't think it's you, Glenn. Much like Hollywood, the Gaming Industry has become a monster.

Bad writing/dialogue, predictable stories, rehashed characters and bad production values combined with a watered-down talent pool and conservative approach is the culprit.

Sure, as we get older, we find it harder to immerse ourselves in escapism, hopefully that's a part of the self-awareness you describe.

The only game that sucked me in completely in the past 5 years other than my Pokemon and NHL games was The Last of Us. It's one of the greatest videogames ever made, hands down, and the trailer for the recently announced sequel already has me worried about what a sequel would mean and do to it's legacy.

If you haven't played TLoU, seriously, go get it now. However possible.

But I've tried to get into quite a few newer games myself, and I'm horrified at how stupid they are. Like, dummed-down stupid. Too long and too blatant of tutorial sections, controls copy-pasted from every other game in the genre (Tomb Raider 2014 I'm looking at you) and ridiculously easy learning curves.

Or you have games like Yo-Kai Watch, that try to be unique while blatantly ripping something off and failing miserably.

I'm hesitant to agree with this since (1) I'm often playing games that were made 5, 10, 15, 20, even 25 years ago (most frequently these days, around 10 to 20 years ago, given that I'm playing PC games from 2004-2007 and SNES/GBA/DS games), and besides, (2) I'm not known to be particularly picky about "bad writing" and cliche characters and such -- if anything, I'm quite forgiving about that, mainly as long as the gameplay+story+music lead me to feeling some sort of emotionally interesting journey -- even if there's no words at all. Heck, I don't even complain much about being locked to 640x480 windows at 30 fps (and I've been known to feel immersion with games like that, even).

Nor do I always want a particularly difficult game -- sometimes I don't. In fact I know that I prefer JRPGs' character advancement over WRPGs' specifically because I don't like to sweat the details of character builds. Besides I'm quite happy with games like the Ys series, which is famous for its difficulty.

Gameplay alone does not give me an immersive experience, though. Like, Titan Souls is what I'd consider and interesting game, but so far it's basically a thing I open up and poke around at for a few minutes at a time, and when I beat a boss I move onto the next one, so it's mainly a mechanical experience, from which my only emotions are the focus of battle and satisfaction of cleverness. Nothing like, say, anger at a villain, or determination to stop him, or sadness at the death of a companion, etc. So it's basically a combination of things.

Genre savviness from getting older is a possible culprit though, yeah.

Quote (Blinge Odonata)
Take a plunge and pick up something you're not sure about without the pre-requisite months of umming and ahhing over it. You do seem to overthink these things imo.

Leave the comfort zone by playing a genre you steer clear of usually.

If it's immersive experiences you're looking for then search for what games are considered the most immersive. So not JRPGs with menu based combat and numbers on screen then tongue.gif

I found horror games with lights off/headphones on to be rather immersive. Maybe a bit too immersive.. in Amnesia's case.
Penumbra I'd recommend, heard good things about Outlast and Dreadout.

I do kinda still do some of that "just jump in". I picked up Jeanne d'Arc a few days ago because of this.

But yeah that "just jump in" rule really helps with immersion because part of the fun is the excitement of being thrown into something new and being swept off my feet. It doesn't always require a new genre, but just requires a new game (and I feel I'm still good enough at "compartmentalizing" stories to not feel annoyed at cliches). I figured this out because I recently realized that I should resist the temptation to play a little more to find out more if I know I don't have time, as doing so can spoil my enjoyment of the next bit when I get to it.

And yeah, the lists don't really help with this problem. Their purpose is to remind me of what else I have made a personal intention to check out, though they do have the side-effect of reminding me of that opportunity cost of not playing something else.

I've been thinking of trying out the first Amnesia game, actually. I know I'm interested in exploring and architecture, and while horror's not usually my thing, it could be an interesting experience. (I've seen some of the gameplay, though.) For what it's worth, though, there's a chance I might just end up with a headache since that seems to be a thing with me and first-person camera angles.

On the other hand I'd say I can indeed find JRPGs immersive, even when they're turn-based battling. It depends on how my actions are being framed.

Quote (Rangers51)
On the topic, GMH, having interacted with you at CoN for so long I would say that it's likely that all of your bullet points factor in.

Fair enough.

And it's been, what...over 13 years since I joined this forum? Wow.

The more I think about it, though, these are probably the major factors:
* relative oversaturation with games and gaming media (i.e. I should try to quit visiting the Steam forums and stop thinking about the variety of games I have), and
* having some non-gaming problems with my current living arrangement and task management stuff that prevents me from being able to really relax and forget about things for a while.

I've been able to reduce that first problem somewhat, by not bothering to stay abreast with gaming news and also various ways of reducing my "choices" to a more limited set. And sometimes, my projects going more smoothly actually give me a sense of momentum that can more properly play off my gaming experiences, rather than having the latter sit around in a vacuum.

Also, I don't really feel bad about not gaming. Sure, I still do it somewhat frequently, but I've told myself that I don't really care to keep abreast of anything or even finish anything within some amount of time. Rather, I've found it better to let myself drift toward and away from my games as I please, and that seems to help.

Quote (Rangers51)
One thing I have noticed, though, is that I've been more immersed in some of the larger games I've played recently, and I think it's significant that most of those games have been played on a console and not PC. If I'm playing a PC game, I am almost certainly doing something else or am at least drawn towards other things simultaneously, since my gaming PC is only a matter of feet from the PCs I use to do my job and also CoN. I might also be gaming on PC as something to occupy me while I'm riding my under-desk elliptical machine, or I might be playing online with a friend or two, which is something I never do on consoles.

I wonder, GMH, if that might change things for you too? I seem to recall that you are nearly or totally exclusively a PC gamer...

My gaming PC is my general home/school PC, heh.

I've occasionally considered finding a way to separate the two -- restricting my gaming to one machine and my Actual Productivity to another. Haven't done this for various reasons, though, in part because of budget.

Those "accidental" immersive experiences I mentioned are all on PC though, for what it's worth. But admittedly I haven't really had a chance to play any game, with one exception, on a TV+console to any extent of immersion, for...probably since before I joined CoN in fact. The only exception was Metroid Prime. (Smash Melee might count but those were all just hanging out with friends and playing individual matches. I enjoyed them but it wasn't what I'd call an immersive experience the way a good single-player game would provide me. On the other hand I was involved in a pretty great D&D game for a little while and really enjoyed that, but subsequent tabletop RPG experiences haven't lived up to that enjoyment.)

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Pokémon Perfect Crystal

finished so far this year:
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drowning, drowning
New Super Mario Bros.
TMNT 3: Radical Rescue

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Posted: 11th February 2017 17:44

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I sometimes feel similarly, in that I no longer play for hours (even when I can), and I can go for a week or two without playing games. I think it has to do with the fact that I'm an adult now with a job and responsibilities, and I also have other hobbies that want my attention.

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Posted: 11th February 2017 23:20

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Quote (Blinge Odonata @ 10th February 2017 14:48)
Quote (Dynamic Threads @ 10th February 2017 17:26)

You know, I've been hearing about this Dark Souls on this board for several months now... But this post has convinced me to not only do some research about the game but ILLEGALLY DOWNLOAD IT and play it.

Ahahahahahaha.


Joking aside, should I start with Demon's Souls or go straight into Dark Souls? Is there much difference between the two?

Haha, how you access it is up to you. I doubt DeS (demon's) is competently emulated at this time though.

I think overall that Dark is the better game in terms of world, combat & lore. There's arguments to be made both ways though.

DeS is brutal for a first timer while Dark brings some variety and quality of life improvements that make it a better initial experience imo.

But judging by your other posts here, the two games are identical tongue.gif


Lol, nice.

Thanks for the response though. Just saw that Demon's and DSII are on Playstation store pretty cheap but the first DS isn't available, so I might actually start with Demon's.

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Posted: 12th February 2017 01:07

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Immersion is where you can sort of "shut off" your physical, actual reality a bit, and take on the role of the game character, in your head...

This depends on you "willingly suspending your disbelief" in the game's world...the problem is that as you get older and more information comes into your head about the nature of the world you actually live in, computer-generated worlds no longer compare to its complexity, among other things it has that games eschew for the sake of having it be a "fun" experience.

It is not something I have an expert answer for, and in fact it is something I, too suffer from extensively. The weight of the world on your shoulders destroying your childhood sense of whimsy is not unique to the modern age at all, furthermore.

It is something every adult human has had to face as they reached a certain level of intellectual development, possibly since the start of human sentience/time/creation/et al.

So...my only real answer is that I feel for what you're going through.

EDIT: Something from Senior English Class came to me. Look up "organized innocence."

EDIT: Well, now you don't have to, cuz it's the first result and it's exactly what I was looking for...

Quote
“Organized innocence” is a perspective that sees, values and hopes to establish or re-establish the innocent perspective of unity, coherence, and benevolence through the lens of the irreverent, experienced perspective.  It does not ignore the failings of humans and their institutions, nor the destructive powers of nature and nature’s God, but seeks to avoid any contribution to human and societal failings and from dwelling too long on the seeming imperfections in nature and God.  It is an innocent vision of a child informed by the wisdom of an adult.  In this perspective there is a harmonizing of adults, children, nature, and God that results in action that contributes to the development of the innocent or organized innocent perspective in self and others.


This post has been edited by Spooniest on 12th February 2017 01:13

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Posted: 14th February 2017 15:56

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Quote (Dynamic Threads @ 11th February 2017 23:20)
Just saw that Demon's and DSII are on Playstation store pretty cheap but the first DS isn't available, so I might actually start with Demon's.

Huh, no DS1 available at all? Is this on ps4?

Surely for last gen there's used copies going at a decent price.

well tell me how it goes anyway, either on forum or in PMs, this drooling fanboy never gets tired of talking about souls.
Despite not playing bloodborne or ds3 yet unsure.gif

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Posted: 14th February 2017 16:31

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I have periods where this happens to me too. What I do, at these points, is just kind of stop gaming for a little while and go find a good TV show to get swept into. Then I proceed to binge watch it until I'm done with the show or (for longer series) get my fire for gaming back. I did this here recently. Chose to watch RWBY up until current then do the same for Date A Live.

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