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I just heard about this last night from my mother, so I haven't had much chance to think about it yet but I just thought I'd pass along the news. It would appear that what was once undoubtably the land of the Pharaohs is currently in a state of unrest and chaos. This is allegedly due to their poor economic climate and a continuing discontempt with the current regime's lack of democratic process.

The question as to if the people will be fired upon by their own military is left unclear. It doesn't seem unlikely though since things have advanced to the volatile stage people are setting the streets ablaze to end the thirty year long presidency. It's a highly troubling state of affairs, although troubling seems to be the standard when it comes to the regions surrounding the middle east.

Particularly interesting to me is the fact that a nobel peace prize winner is amongst the protesters Mohamed Elberidi is amongst the protesters. I wonder what his precise thoughts and direct role on all this are... Or perhaps more importantly how it'll all play out.

The situation vaguely reminds me of a movie I saw about Ghandi on the uprisings India had against the British empire, albeit the name of that movie currently escapes me.

At any rate, does anyone have any thoughts on the manner?

This post has been edited by Tonepoet on 30th January 2011 22:11

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Role reversal at its finest.

It's Ghandi, an Oscar-winning biopic about him. But the key is here: there are rarely non-violent protests. Even the protests here in the 1960s for the civil rights and hippie movements were far from peaceful. But the violence at those times was largely caused by police brutality. One can only hope that the Egyptian people can remove the corruption and build a fairer system. But a lot of that does depend on outside support, AKA, what the US does.

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Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (BlitzSage @ 31st January 2011 04:48)

But a lot of that does depend on outside support, AKA, what the US does.

Yeah? Like they did in Vietnam? hah.


This is a full scale revolution in Egypt now. Tonepoet I hope you and the old man of Narshe Forgive my "semantic nonsense " but rebellion suggests disobedience and trying to overthrow a ruler. However; what we are seeing is the unified people of Egypt bringing a government and dictator down by simply walking through the streets and chanting, we are witnessing a mostly peaceful revolution. No real laws are broken by this show of civil disobedience (notwithstanding the assaults committed by pro Mubarak thugs, and looting).

Mubarak's rule is over now, he has no claim to represent the Egyptian people any longer and the army have refused to use force against protestors, which is the nail in his coffin. He is currently biding his time, delaying the inevitable while waiting for some miracle of foreign intervention, which I truly hope does not happen. What country has the right?

Be happy that this has happened in our lifetime kids, because it's beautiful.

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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens

Seems like the army is being neutral, for now.

That said, it seems like Mubarak got his goons and police to dress up as rival demonstrators, then attack the protesters, complete with military-style tactics.

Well, that's automatic jackass status right there.

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I agree with the general feeling here. However, as a counterpoint, I feel a bit of sympathy for Mubarak's supporters. I don't think they're all state militia. In one interview an old man was saying why he supported Mubarak: he ensured stability and if this escalated it might result in bombings and beheadings. I know it seems wrong to say he's stable when there's thousands fighting out on the streets, but a compromise without a civil war is probably the best solution. If that means keeping Mubarak in for a period of time then I think, with my grand knowledge of Egypt and its politics, that they should settle for that.

This post has been edited by sweetdude on 3rd February 2011 14:08

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

While it would be nice to see things end on a more peaceful note, without a civil war breaking out, I actually think waiting for too long is unwise. President El Mubarak has allegedly been rigging the elections and silencing the people for thirty long years, with no reason to believe he'll stop now. The more time he's given in office, the more opportunity he has to setup a shadow government before his official withdrawal from office. It also seems to be too late to worry about what chaos a power vacuum might have, since every moment he remains in office only causes more and more unrest within the hearts of the people. For this reason keeping him in may achieve is delaying the inevitable. As such, I think the only way we'll see this end peaceably is if he steps down immediately in order for an emergency election to take place. It doesn't look like that's going to happen though, so the stubborn mule will likely end up with a bullet in his head, with much hardship to be had by the Egyptian people along the way.

Quote ("Glenn Magus Harvey")

Seems like the army is being neutral, for now.

That said, it seems like Mubarak got his goons and police to dress up as rival demonstrators, then attack the protesters, complete with military-style tactics.

Which is a real blessing so far. One of the outbreaks had 600 people "hurt" in an incident where Mubarak's supporters, be they plain clothes police or otherwise, had machetes and whips on horseback. The protester's only recourse was to steal fences to use as barricades and start throwing stones. A very dated method of combat to say the least.

Could you imagine the bloodshed that would occur if just one tank was to become involved? I doubt any of the protesters have something hidden in their papa's barn capable of stopping it. . . And it's not like the people could use their innate mobility advantage to work their way around with all the armed officers who would become invariably involved. It'd be such a one-sided bloody nightmare!

@Blitz Sage:

Quick answer; are you a film buff or am I just that far out of the loop? At any rate I don't mind peaceful protest. I don't even mind violence when it's both called for which it appears to be and methodical. I just start getting concerned when methodology is lacking though, since it's that sort of chaotic situation where people start getting hurt needlessly. Often times you'll see protesters causing random damages to the belongings of people who very well aren't involved in the proceedings for no good reason or possibly even their fellow protesters. Things like jumping on cars, breaking store windows, setting restaurants on fire... That appears to be totally uncalled for unless there was something like a reservation for a presidential feast there, could easily kill innocent people inside and will very easily ruin the hard working proprietor's livelihood. Luckily enough, this seems to be the exception rather than the rule on the part of the protesters so far.

@Blinge Odanta:

Let's not count our chickens before they hatch.
____

Quote (Tiddles @ 1st February 2011)

I've split this from the topic on the Egyptian situation. Please do repost anything relevant to that subject in its original topic if it's got lost over here, but the majority of these posts are about something else.Special note: This quote is from this thread in this post.

For the sake of completeness, here are all of the points from the split thread that I think relate directly to this specific situation in original posting order, possibly with some comments along the way:

Quote (Cefca @ 31st January 2011)

The only thoughts I have are at least the Egyptians are demonstrating for a proper reason to try and better their country. Basically the complete opposite of the student protesters in England, most of which demonstrate just for the sake of demonstrating.

I don't think much will come of it in Egypt though, it rarely does without military involvement from another country from what I've seen. Usually it'll turn deadly, people will die, the world will be shocked and the president will still be in power.

I'll talk about England in the England topic but so far as Egypt is concerned, the article I linked above suggests its partially because the people didn't have much of an outlet to protest that this is taking place now. Egypt didn't allow civil protest in groups larger than five people, with no political activity allowed to take place anywhere near campus. The people must've had a lot of bottled up emotions for something to happen on such a wide scale.

Quote (DelS @ 31st January 2011)

Quote (Cefca @ 31st January 2011 13:17)

I don't think much will come of it in Egypt though, it rarely does without military involvement from another country from what I've seen. Usually it'll turn deadly, people will die, the world will be shocked and the president will still be in power.

Undoubtedly. Given that a collapse of Egyptian government has such severe implications for the Middle East as a whole don't be too shocked if the US keeps up the softly-softly please reform please approach, if only to keep Israel happy that they don't have another country with 3,000 tanks about to turn hardline Islamist on their doorstep.

Even if they do topple the current Government somehow, there will still be blood down the line. I wouldn't put it past various parties on all sides of the equation to seek to install their favoured possible leaders or to destabilised unfavourable candidates.

Quote (SweetDude @ 31st January 2011 08:12)

On topic, it's not just Egypt. Yemen and Jordan and a couple of other countries are following Tunisia's original example. I know the news line seems to be about poverty and dislike of government, but I can't help but think that all these states are some of the US' top allies in the region. Maybe just a coincidence.

An interesting and disturbing dynamic. Nothing seems to be happening in Jerusalem though, albeit it's unique amongst our allies as it's pretty much the only nonislam state in the region. I wonder if WW III's in the making.

Quote (Blinge Odanta @ 31st January 2011)

Also the US connection in Egypt: they will do nothing to help the revolution there, US interests want the country as stable as possible.

____

One final thought I have regarding no particular post in particular is I wonder if the incumbency is really at fault for the current ill state of affairs or if there are other factors involved that make things sort of hopeless for egypt. I haven't heard much of Mubarak's policies concerning all of this to know just how bad of a despot he could possibly be.

I mean although I know he shouldn't have to be, he certainly he couldn't be any worse than Saddam Husein could he? Saddam was infamous for just outright killing his own people. Mother used to tell me horrible stories of him doing things like putting people in human meat grinders long before the last Iraq war. I guess it's kinda hard for dead people to protest though, which was probably why he did it...



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Role reversal at its finest.

I've actually been keeping tabs on this whole thing... I got an Al-Jazeera newsfeed on my Igoogle. I already posted some of my thoughts elsewhere, but as a re-hash, I should mention how terribly excited the whole thing makes me. Furthermore, I more or less agree with a lot of what Blinge was getting at.

What's possible in Egypt right now could change the way Islam and Arabs deal with the US and the rest of the world. What's interesting about the revolution, is it's incited by the young, progressive, and dissatisfied rather than the religious- a group who only signed on later and with some continued hesitance... but that's the "organized" religious branch. From the start, many protesters have called for a government in line with Islam. The modern aspect of the whole thing is what's fascinating. For instance, one of the ways in which protest and support was shown was a facebook petition of some sort. To point: this could be a chance for a modern, moderate, free, monotheistic state. Is this hope too optimistic? I wonder. The demonstrators often cite Tunisia as an example. See, Anonymous is involved here now- as if Facebook didn't already imply it. What makes this interesting is how huge and important of a state Egypt is... and it's new government is going to be part Anonymous in foundation. This makes me unbelievably happy for some reason.

Moving along, a second article I read was about the Ayatollahs response to the whole thing. He thinks this is all a great and glorious "Islamic Uprising". In short, he makes a shrewd clerical move of attempting to name the whole after what is merely a part of the whole. I'm unimpressed, and hope stupid people don't take it out of proportion. Let's be real here, Aya' baby. You're running an autocratic militant regime, which among other problems, has a similar under-current of dissent amongst it's younger generation. What I fear about Iran, in all honestly, is if it goes up in smoke it'll fall too hard on westernization- a fear I don't have with Egypt who are throwing out their pro-US pro-Israeli leader, all the while, innocently but not un-ironically spitting the name of "democracy" back in our faces. What scares me is that the focus will be on the fact that Iran, commonly thought by us to be "extremists" supports the movement and not on an exposition of the opinions and beliefs of those who actually make it up.

The whole thing really seems to be making the US uncomfortable, which I feel is good. If there were a freely democratic Arab nation with moderate religious leadership mixed in with the rest of a secular parliament (not unlike what we have here in the USA itself), our own extremists, secular and otherwise, would have just one more reason to shove their feet in their mouths. What irks me most is the US urging them to keep Mubarak in office for an interim. When we were tossing out Britain were we willing to allow the King to rule over us for even just one more minute? It just seems hypocritical of us to do anything but offer a revolution like this our full support- unless, of course, we weren't a country of ideological principles, but rather, economic and militaristic ones. But that would be silly

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If you've been mod-o-fied,
It's an illusion, and you're in-between.
Don't you be tarot-fied,
It's just alot of nothing, so what can it mean?
~Frank Zappa

Sins exist only for people who are on the Way or approaching the Way

Quote (MogMaster @ 6th February 2011 21:47)

It just seems hypocritical of us to do anything but offer a revolution like this our full support- unless, of course, we weren't a country of ideological principles, but rather, economic and militaristic ones. But that would be silly

Damn straight it would be silly. Be outright stupid.

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Arts

Farts

Twarts

Viva La Revolución !!!

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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens

It was an interesting day. The world is watching... I really hope they don't blow it.

--------------------

If you've been mod-o-fied,
It's an illusion, and you're in-between.
Don't you be tarot-fied,
It's just alot of nothing, so what can it mean?
~Frank Zappa

Sins exist only for people who are on the Way or approaching the Way

I'm glad to see that democracy is finally winning out in the countries, seemingly at least.

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Praise Be To Helix!

Updates: Egypt is now sorting out its future, now that it has a chance to do so, and people are being quite active in the politics of their country. Which is probably a good thing.

Tunisia as well, though I haven't heard as much about it.

Libya is where the biggest action is, at the moment, where you have revolutionaries who control the eastern and some far-western parts of the country fighting (with NATO air support) to depose strongman dictator Col. Muammar al-Gaddafi. Seems like the fighting is currently around Brega, in the center of the country, as well as in Misrata, one of the revolutionaries' few strongholds in the west and situated between loyalist strongholds Tripoli (the capital) and Sirte (Gaddafi's tribe's hometown). Gaddafi is especially disgusting for recruiting foreign mercenaries--from Mali, Chad, and even Belarus--to help him kill his own fellow countrymen.

In Ivory Coast, the incumbent president Laurent Gbagbo was outvoted but refused to leave power; forces opposed to him and supporting Alassane Ouattara (his victorious opponent) seem to be succeeding at defeating Gbagbo militarily after Gbagbo's people basically started a short-lived civil war.

Yemen currently seems to have a civil war of public opinion over president Saleh, with no clear indication of which side is stronger. And not surprisingly, massive protests, along with some violence and even counter-protests.

Bahrain has seen massive protests involving an entire fourth of the one-million-or-so population. Saudi Arabia has been trying to help stamp out the protests. Racial tensions may be involved: in both countries, Sunnis are in power but Shi'ites are the majority in the population.

Palestinian youths tried to organize a mass protest, but unfortunately it devolved into factional infighting.

Also, major protests in Algeria and Syria. And other protests have happened in the past couple months in various other north African and Middle Eastern countries, including Western Sahara, Morocco, Chad, Sudan, Oman, Saudi Arabia (complete with brutal suppression), Iraq, Jordan, Iran, and even China.

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Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 8th April 2011 02:30)

Libya is where the biggest action is, at the moment, where you have revolutionaries who control the eastern and some far-western parts of the country fighting (with NATO air support) to depose strongman dictator Col. Muammar al-Gaddafi. Seems like the fighting is currently around Brega, in the center of the country, as well as in Misrata, one of the revolutionaries' few strongholds in the west and situated between loyalist strongholds Tripoli (the capital) and Sirte (Gaddafi's tribe's hometown). Gaddafi is especially disgusting for recruiting foreign mercenaries--from Mali, Chad, and even Belarus--to help him kill his own fellow countrymen.

Oh God not another war in a Muslim country. I would like to give more of an opinion but the inevitable "oil" "Islamophobia" "Crusaders" debate is just too frustrating to think about.

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

Yep. it looks like the same old sh**. congrats NATO; your bomb first, ask questions later attitude is getting real old, real fast.

The idea that these Western countries can jump in like that without consulting their own people is absurd to me.

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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens

The rebels requested foreign aid.
Also, it wasn't just NATO where deliberations took place. The UN and Arab league had meetings too. When the freaking Arab league says to send the bombers and just about every foreign minister defects/resigns, you know it's probably ok to have a military presence in the country to some extent.

If everyone would have ignored Libya, people would bitch that we sent military to every country in the Middle East but the one that asked us to.

--------------------

If you've been mod-o-fied,
It's an illusion, and you're in-between.
Don't you be tarot-fied,
It's just alot of nothing, so what can it mean?
~Frank Zappa

Sins exist only for people who are on the Way or approaching the Way

Did they ask to send the bombers? or to enforce a no fly zone?

whatever did happen, you make a good point

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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens

Yes, they asked. And it's not just a western thing; Qatar is among the most involved countries, alongside France. And you can bet that Tunisians and Egyptians are helping out under the radar.

For what it's worth, there's actually quite good support among the French people for this military action, even though Sarkozy himself doesn't have stellar approval ratings.

This post has been edited by Glenn Magus Harvey on 8th April 2011 18:22

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Unfortunately I've heard news that the Egyptian military is starting to start their own monarchy and that tahrir square will fill again. I hope that the US gives more attention to this issue. Yes theres a war in Libya and an earthquake in Japan, but we have international support in Libya and Japan is a modern country. I'm not saying we should ignore these issues but we need to show the Egyptian people that we care and we are here to support them. Unfortunately the US failed that test during the protests, their most crucial moment. I hope Obama recognizes this and proposes this to the international community to give more support for democracy in Egypt. And as for the rebels in Libya, they need to get organized. Yes the western world are giving them air support but they are still an unskilled group. In a times magazine article it said that they didn't even really have a commander. Alot of them don't have weapons. If the libyans want to win the war, they need to get organized and start dividing into squads and teams.

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Quote (skwaag5233 @ 8th April 2011 19:48)

Unfortunately I've heard news that the Egyptian military is starting to start their own monarchy and that tahrir square will fill again. I hope that the US gives more attention to this issue.

Well, I believe it was Blind Odonata that rightfully corrected me on this earlier, but I don't believe we have the right to intervene in the affairs of any of these nations. We must remember that these are autonomous states we're talking about. The US does not (officially) control them. We are not (once again, officially) a world empire. And the only reasons we would intervene is our self-interests, not the interests of the people.

Edit

In fact, for a moment @Blind Odonata: What I meant originally was that the US has an obligation to do what is right. And in most cases, that's done by not making things worse like we did in Vietnam. In other words, I'm on your side.

The point being: these people have clearly shown the ability to fight for their own freedom without our help. Egypt has a long way to go, but has still shown the capability to progress.



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Praise Be To Helix!

Something I think we may find darkly amusing about it all though. The NATO and Coalition campaign over Libya is ostensibly about protecting civilians, yes, but there's the conspiracy of an underlying grab for the money. IE, Oil.

This is half true. There is a moneymaking motive, but it's not oil. It's that the whole campaign has the bonus of being a great advert.

The French-built Rafale and the jointly-developed Eurofighter Typhoon are fighting each other at the same time they drop bombs on Libyan tanks. Fighting for export sales, that is.

It's been noted in Private Eye before this, but that Yahoo link is the first mainstream news I've saw that noticed it. According to the Eye, footage of the Rafale in action was apparently released just in time to interrupt a British Ministry of Defence press conference. Coincidence? Not bloody likely!

Shame for the US the F-35 isn't ready to fly, and that the current planes flown by the Americans are either old, or barred from export like the B2 and F-22. Given the amount of money Obama just had to cut to overcome some partisan bickering a few billion in foreign export sales could have been really helpful...

Still, it's strange. Products aimed at the civil market generally dread the idea of bombing but when it comes to military hardware, well...

This post has been edited by Del S on 9th April 2011 11:01

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"Only the dead have seen the end of their quotes being misattributed to Plato."
-George Santayana

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here..."
-Abraham Lincoln, prior to the discovery of Irony.

Quote (BlitzSage @ 9th April 2011 01:56)

Quote (skwaag5233 @ 8th April 2011 19:48)

Unfortunately I've heard news that the Egyptian military is starting to start their own monarchy and that tahrir square will fill again. I hope that the US gives more attention to this issue.

Well, I believe it was Blind Odonata that rightfully corrected me on this earlier, but I don't believe we have the right to intervene in the affairs of any of these nations. We must remember that these are autonomous states we're talking about. The US does not (officially) control them. We are not (once again, officially) a world empire. And the only reasons we would intervene is our self-interests, not the interests of the people.



The point being: these people have clearly shown the ability to fight for their own freedom without our help. Egypt has a long way to go, but has still shown the capability to progress. [QUOTE]

My point being was that we haven't really given the egypt issue a whole lot of attention after mubarrak went down. I'm sure issues going on right now are much more important than even the revolution itself. As for intervention well in a sense I do think we should help but not tell them what to do. sorta just show that the international community is watching and wants Egypt to have a democracy.

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Wait he says...do I look like a waiter?! -Kefka :)

Quote

I do think we should help them but not tell them what to do. sorta just show that the international community is watching and wants Egypt to have a democracy.

Well, thing is, it may be a thin tightrope to walk between not helping them enough and helping them too much such that anti-western elements make a big deal of it.

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Quote (skwaag5233 @ 10th April 2011 14:27)

My point being was that we haven't really given the egypt issue a whole lot of attention after mubarrak went down. I'm sure issues going on right now are much more important than even the revolution itself. As for intervention well in a sense I do think we should help but not tell them what to do. sorta just show that the international community is watching and wants Egypt to have a democracy.

That's media attention in our country. Keep in mind that this is a local issue. Yes, it's happened in front of everyone, and it has international implications. But that does not give us the right nor the obligation to intervene.

Yes, we want them to have a democracy. But the best way for that to happen is for the people to rise up and demand it from their government. Democracy is, after all, based on the will of the people.

If our government doesn't do what we want it to, that doesn't give Mexico permission to topple our government. It gives us the responsibility to have our own democratic uprising and demand that the government serves us.

I don't mean to be selfish, but at this very moment, we have governors stripping away union rights. And we have hundreds of thousands of citizens in our own streets protesting. If America truly cares about democracy, we must look first with ourselves, and the way our system runs.

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Praise Be To Helix!

Since we're basically using this as the general North African / Middle Eastern / etc. protests issue thread...

* In Misrata, rebels have liberated parts of Tripoli Street in Misrata. It's the main road to the port, I hear.
* The front line in the east is still somewhere around Brega, but reporting is rather irregular anyway.
* There were recent protests in Tripoli itself, in broad daylight.
* Another handful of defectors seems to have boated to Tunisia.
* Algeria may be supplying weapons to Gaddafi.
* Misratan citizens are using their knowledge of local geography to major advantage.
* Misratan citizens have recently captured a bunch of (like 30) Gaddafi soldiers holed up in a shoe factory. Supposedly, they were asking NATO to bomb the place but never got that request fulfilled, so they did the work themselves.

This post has been edited by Glenn Magus Harvey on 19th April 2011 18:13

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Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 19th April 2011 14:12)

* Algeria may be supplying weapons to Gaddafi.

That's very understandable. Algeria has been successful in suppressing uprisings in their country, and their rulers fear the domino effect, especially if Libya splits into two states. Algeria is rich in oil, so they have enough wealth to shut out their citizens. If they do supply him with enough weaponry, this civil war could continue for a much longer time. One could only hope that Algerian protesters could gain a stronger resistance. That could shift the tide back in our favor (our meaning "those that support democracy").

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Praise Be To Helix!

For what it's worth, while we all would love see (real) democracies sprout in north Africa and the Middle East, keep in mind that there's also the Arab/Sunni-vs.-Persian/Shiite political division that's being played out in part in some places. Just so, y'know, keep in mind that the politics isn't as simple as people vs. dictators. Unfortunately.

That said, given that the two big players in that tension are Saudi Arabia and Iran, and that both of their governments are quite repressive of their people, it would definitely be quite lovely to see both governments toppled.

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Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 19th April 2011 23:56)

For what it's worth, while we all would love see (real) democracies sprout in north Africa and the Middle East, keep in mind that there's also the Arab/Sunni-vs.-Persian/Shiite political division that's being played out in part in some places. Just so, y'know, keep in mind that the politics isn't as simple as people vs. dictators. Unfortunately.

That said, given that the two big players in that tension are Saudi Arabia and Iran, and that both of their governments are quite repressive of their people, it would definitely be quite lovely to see both governments toppled.

I for one would hope to see all oppressive systems fall. And as you brought Iran and Saudi Arabia up: it has been shown throughout history that regimes which suppress their people can use religious doctrine as a weapon. In other words, one oppressive system uses another to help it maintain power. If you look at most major conflicts around the world, they are mostly caused by ethnic/religious strife, and most of them also are spurred on by major power systems. The U.S. supports Saudi Arabia's king, supported Mubarak before his resignation, has interfered in Iran's politics, and the list continues. Really, it is more about oppressor vs. oppressed. The people in the Middle East have been used by foreign power and by their own corrupt governments for many years.

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Praise Be To Helix!

In the news:

Two journalists have been killed: Chris Hondros and Tim Hetherington were killed in Misrata, and identified by their co-worker Andre Liohn (who was injured and in the hospital).

A PBS News Hour article this evening featured a British member of parliament talking about how bad the humanitarian situation is in Misrata. There have also been reports of doctors well aware that people are dying of injuries that could be treated elsewhere.

Some of my fellow tropers are rather angry at Turkey for reportedly playing both sides of this conflict.

Someone from the TNC (Trans-National Council, the temporary name for the Libyan resistance) is going to meet with Sarkozy. Weapons and supplies from Qatar have been seen in use by the resistance. The British have been sending military advisors to aid in non-combat roles, and Obama is pledging about $25 million in non-lethal supplies (i.e. medical supplies, body armor, etc.).

There has been some potential evidence of infighting amongst Gaddafi forces in Brega, while Ras Lanuf might just be deserted. Misrata is of course still being attacked but still holding up.

Source for that last bit: A troper named Mayu Zane, here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discu...0&page=177#4425

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current games (2024-02-19):
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finished so far this year:
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tabled: Lost Ruins

Bumping due to some news updates.

In Egypt, people still aren't very happy about things; many people want to see more change. Mubarak's going on trial at least, I think. A recent evening news article did note a good sign: that most people still prefer a secular government, and that people are definitely enjoying newfound liberties, such as being able to have an outdoor veterinary clinic set up by the Muslim Brotherhood, but they are also not taking their liberties for granted, being well aware that government-rebuilding requires a very politically-involved populace.

In Libya, rebels have gradually captured more and more territory, and NATO airstrikes have intensified, though Gaddafi still claims that he'll cling on 'til the bitter end. Clashes are being reported from Tripoli now between rebels and Gaddafi loyalists. Recently, Gaddafi forces tried yet again to attack Misrata and was again repelled.

In Yemen, what was an anti-government rebellion by pro-liberty/democracy groups has since become far more complicated. Tribal militias are now leading the fight against government forces, while Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (which is based in Yemen) is also trying to stir up shit, capturing a town and fighting government forces there. President Saleh's compound was recently hit by something fired by a tribal force, which seems to have dealt him severe injuries; last I heard he was recovering in Saudi Arabia but plans to return to Yemen. Observers have been wondering if Yemen will break back up into several countries, some of which might get swallowed by Saudi Arabia.

In Syria, protests and crackdowns have both been increasing (and it seems to be less complicated than in Yemen). Recently, protesters rallying against the Assad regime have focused on the death of a boy reportedly due to torture while imprisoned. Also reported are significant defections within the armed forces, as well as mass exodus from a town near the border with Turkey due to impending attack from government-controlled armed forces.

Bahrain recently lifted the state of emergency, despite retaining heavy police presence (though the Saudi troops have since left). Protests have been starting back up there.

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current games (2024-02-19):
Fairy Fencer F ADF
Pokémon Perfect Crystal

finished so far this year:
Gato Roboto
drowning, drowning
New Super Mario Bros.
TMNT 3: Radical Rescue

tabled: Lost Ruins

Well, one of the problems with Egypt is that the military is still under control, and in Syria things have escalated over the Israeli-controlled Palestinian border, and that country could break up as well.

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Praise Be To Helix!