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This made me lose all my respect for Ashe. -CSM

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More softcore porn from Squenix, tell me honestly, who didn't see that coming?

Ho hum. This being a totally smutty picture that's simply unacceptable by today's standards and FFXII being intended for children under the age of 13, I can see how this is such a big issue.

Wait, it's not obscene.

And FFXII isn't for kids either.

Huh. I guess I've either fallen into a ploy for attention by the OP (I'm not the brightest lightbulb in the box... wait, that didn't make sense, did it?) or I've been severely desensitized to what should be sexually provocative by the internet, real life, and the gasses from 'Nam...

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

If that innocent piece of fanservice causes you to "lose all [your] respect for Ashe," then you should get the hell off the internet, because it's extremely likely that an accidental visit to the wrong site could result in your losing respect for every fictional character ever created.

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this is a blog mostly about comics and videogames
END SPOILER

oh no swimsuit! eek my eyes

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Hey, put the cellphone down for a while
In the night there is something wild
Can you hear it breathing?
And hey, put the laptop down for a while
In the night there is something wild
I feel it, it's leaving me

False advetising. I was surprised by the lack of disturbingness of these supposedly "disturbing" images.

OMG TEH BOOBIEZ IS XXXPOZE

For once, I agree with laszlow. I think you are taking this far too seriously. I don't see "anything" related to sex in that picture.

Quote (footbigmike @ 8th March 2007 21:52)

I was surprised by the lack of disturbingness of these supposedly "disturbing" images.

Yeah...I mean it's not like Ashe's normal outfit was modest to begin with. (Don't get me wrong, however, I don't endorse this type of thing.)

At any rate, summoning Shiva in any one of the PSX FF's is more indecent than that artwork.

This post has been edited by BDZ on 8th March 2007 21:57

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Quote (BDZ @ 8th March 2007 16:57)

Quote (footbigmike @ 8th March 2007 21:52)

I was surprised by the lack of disturbingness of these supposedly "disturbing" images.

Yeah...I mean it's not like Ashe's normal outfit was modest to begin with. (Don't get me wrong, however, I don't endorse this type of thing.)

At any rate, summoning Shiva in any one of the PSX FF's is more indecent than that artwork.

MMmm.. Shiva... if she's not a Final Fantasy sex symbol, I don't know who is.

Also, lets not forget Tifa. She's inappropriately well-endowed, although she was wearing appropriate attire.

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Oh sure, I don't have to get kicked in the junk to activate it, but I like it anyway. -- Thief commenting on the difference between Throw and Blue Magic.

It's not that I have a problem with sex, or even porn, in general. But showing my favorite video game characters borderline nude is just, well, degrading them into Selphies and Rikkus. Ashe is the best female character since Terra and I want her image to reflect that. -CSM

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Quote (Crazyswordsman @ 8th March 2007 17:34)

It's not that I have a problem with sex, or even porn, in general. But showing my favorite video game characters borderline nude is just, well, degrading them into Selphies and Rikkus. Ashe is the best female character since Terra and I want her image to reflect that. -CSM

Note, I have not played FF12 and probably won't for a long time, if ever. But the purpose of these characters is to be human (or human-like), isn't it? We're supposed to relate to them. We're supposed to identify with them. The people who write for these characters should be thinking of them as people, with rounded lives. Adventure isn't the only thing they've ever done.

To that end, if you DON'T think of characters in games of having the capability to enjoy life in some of the same ways we do, then you're either looking at flat, boring characters, or you yourself aren't appreciating the characters, if you ask me. You don't have to imagine that characters might do jigsaw puzzles, or play tennis, or go to the beach, but you shouldn't deny out of hand that it's possible. And if a character goes to a beach, what does that character wear? I'd wager a swimsuit. And that suit is hardly near-nude.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

Well, it should be expected in some ways... the people who design these games are not intentionally out there to make the characters fugly. In fact, most of the characters in most games, are made to look good and 'appealing' to the players. Outfits like this are pretty common for female characters nowadays as well... you could only imagine how the loveable sprites from the old cartridge FFs like Terra would've looked like, if only they had the technology back then. Not that I agree with the idea that EVERY major female character should be portrayed in that manner. I'm just saying it's pretty common with today's standards.

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Wow. I have to pour bleach in my eyes after seeing that level of obscenity.

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Come with me so I can show you how to live
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I’m gripping at the walls around me
Don’t complicate it
I’m addicted to this life
I’ll be your token of attention
All my lies come down to this
-Orgy, "Beautiful Disgrace"

Argh, filth! These images sicken me! Foulness personified!
Sorry, I had to join in there.

It's certainly an odd design for a swimming suit, but I wouldn't call it degrading.
Seems fine to me.

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'Let that be a lesson to all oppressive vegetable sellers.'

I don't think it's that big a deal. xD It might be unintentional fan-service at worst, but not disturbing in any way.

Also, those artworks were in the art book as well.

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What? Ashe? I was looking at Balthier making a move on Fran.
And a belt on a bathing suit, not everyday but hey, theres worse "art" out there.
Back on more of a serious track:

Quote

But showing my favorite video game characters borderline nude is just, well, degrading them into Selphies and Rikkus. Ashe is the best female character since Terra and I want her image to reflect that.

Well people can't do thing's to make one person happy. Unless it's someone important, they always get away with it.

This post has been edited by Dragon King on 9th March 2007 02:47

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Kel'Thuzad: She is persistent. Reminds me of you, death knight.

Arthas:Shut up you damned ghost.

-Warcraft III Kel'thuzad comparing Arthas and Sylvanas Windrunner.

Wow. I think I'll have to immediately erase the horrendous pr0n from my cache, lest I be caught looking at such Final Fantasy filth.

Yeah. That's actually quite tastefully done. The image isn't even provocative in context, it shows.... what, two characters going swimming in a river. Fanservice at most. I'd barely even consider that "not work safe."

...well, I know the folks at my workplace wouldn't find that offensive or questionable at all.

Quote (Zeromus_X @ 8th March 2007 20:51)

I don't think it's that big a deal. xD It might be unintentional fan-service at worst, but not disturbing in any way.

Also, those artworks were in the art book as well.

Those images are also in the collector's edition DVD as well as images of balthier with an arm around asche riding on the sky bike. Apparently balthier gets all the ladies.

there really isn't anything disturbing about any of those images. i don't see how any of them can be considered disturbing, CSM you're acting like you've never seen girl in a bikini before.

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"Have you ever seen a baby do that before?"

I see nothing wrong with this. Grow up dude.

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"You know that feeling you get when you're on a merry go 'round, and you want to jump off to make the spinning stop, but you know it'll suck when you land? I feel like that all the time"- Keno

"I stab my girl until I fall down"
-Yukari
Do you like Horny Bunnies?

She's wearing a bikini. Basch, not far from her, is ankle deep in water and looks to be wearing swimming trunks. I don't see the problem. Ashe is not allowed to wear a bikini to go swimming?

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I had an old signature. Now I've changed it.

You know, really, I think I've altered my position about this somewhat. I still think it's blowing it well out of proportion to call the image "very disturbing" or to say that it has cost you all the respect you had for that character. But if that's how you feel about it, then that's how you feel about it. You won't make me feel the same, but at least you shouldn't have to defend it from me; think what you want, just don't expect everyone to agree. It's just not worth the "debate" it's gotten, I don't think.

Though, this makes me wonder, where did the notion that we needed "fanservice" come from? It's not a word that I heard much of before the last year or so, being insulated as I am. Where do we draw the line? In five years, do we have this same discussion when a female Final Fantasy character appears topless, backed up against a pole on stage as part of a "mission"? And on whose side do we fall then? I optimistically doubt that things such as this will lead to such an extreme, but I read a few responses here, including my own first one, and I cynically wonder if that won't sell more games and guides without concern to oversexualizing yet another visual medium.

While I still don't agree that this would make me "lose respect" for a character, it does make me wonder what would for me or for the general populace. And the precedent is not without concerns.

This post has been edited by Rangers51 on 9th March 2007 12:20

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

People have sex, masturbate, and do a whole lot of other filthy things. Your call.

Seriously, I'm very desensitized to stuff. Reading about some huge pedophilia bust in the newspaper leaves me feeling uncaring. Seeing a video game character (that is to say, a fictional character with no roots in the real world whatsoever) wearing something perfectly normal hardly has more of an impact. I get more irritated and offended at anti-smoking laws in bars than this. So, yeah, I'm quite biased. I'm not the average 13-16 year old who plays FFs. I understand viewpoints can vastly differ.

However, in this case, I do feel this is ridiculous. I don't know HSM much, but I think he'll have a hard time going through life if swimsuits are cause for shock and revulsion. Especially in a drawing - Ashe is not a real person. She's a tool through which the storyline progresses, no different from all the other stuff that happens in the game.

Someone should make a game where characters have to make bathroom stops, occasionally flirt with the opposite sex, have the odd erotic or sensual encounter, go swimming, get sick, and have disgusting secret habits. If a mere swimsuit can cause such an uproar, man, will that game ever drive a few people up the walls. But the funny thing is this: this is what our lives are like. We're just like these characters. Except, games never show this side of them. Ever seen a character complain of getting their girlfriend pregnant accidently or having a zit growing on an obvious spot?

Seriously, a bikini on a fictional character? There are children being sexually moslested out there, junkies a few hours away from a fatal OD, homeless people, and people whom haven't heard any Iron Maiden in their entire lives. And they're all real people, too.

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Quote (Crazyswordsman @ 8th March 2007 17:34)

Ashe is the best female character since Terra and I want her image to reflect that. -CSM

You can't complain about swimsuits and use Terra as a counterexample. Damn girl doesn't even wear pants the entire game! And let's not forget her screaming, nude seizure when she goes into Pink Troll Doll mode.

This post has been edited by Neal on 9th March 2007 18:40

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Hey, put the cellphone down for a while
In the night there is something wild
Can you hear it breathing?
And hey, put the laptop down for a while
In the night there is something wild
I feel it, it's leaving me

Quote (Neal @ 9th March 2007 13:39)

Quote (Crazyswordsman @ 8th March 2007 17:34)

Ashe is the best female character since Terra and I want her image to reflect that. -CSM

You can't complain about swimsuits and use Terra as a counterexample. Damn girl doesn't even wear pants the entire game! And let's not forget her screaming, nude seizure when she goes into Pink Troll Doll mode.

LOL.

Hell, even Celes wore a leotard in the sprite design. I just don't really give a crap about a friggin leotard/swimsuit on Celes. Stop whining, CSM. Grow up and get a girlfriend. She'll beg you to let her wear a swimsuit when you two go swiming. Just because she's wearing a swimsuit or anything revealing, that doesn't mean you should crap on the artists and say that made you lose respect for Ashe.

I never played FF12 either, and I don't plan to because I already made up my mind. You're like a damn kid who'd rather have vanilla or chocolate flavor on your ice cream instead of both vanilla & chocolate flavors just because that would make you "lose respect for".

Just look at FFV's character job designs. It seems very unbelievable that Butz would be a Mediator and wear those silly sheep fur on himself, but it's possible, and that's the transition. So you just have to accept the fact that anyone can be anything they'd like to be.

Do a Google Image Search on Tifa (without filters on), and you'll most likely get porn instead of a random clothed picture of Tifa smiling or fighting. Would that make you lose respect for her? She doesn't exist, and neither do any other Final Fantasy or video game character.

Be mature and learn to *IGNORE* things that you wouldn't like. The world doesn't revolve around you, and you should know that.

Now that I think about Rangers51's first reply in this thread, I also seem to agree with him that human characters in video games aren't always doing limited things in their respective franchises.

S***, a ninja could own a bakery if he wanted to make his life more productive.

Even if it sounds silly to you that a "badass" would "degrade himself to lose all respect", the moral of the story is not everything you sterotype someone to be should be 100% accurate. It's like thinking black people are only into basketball and rap. I know plenty of black friends I have that aren't at all like that.

Let's see that tears in your eyes, CSM. Go get a girlfriend, or you're just gonna be suffering and crying like a fool over a nonexistent character. Grow up. Get a life. Stop your FF nerdiness. Get laid.

Moderator Edit

You've been warned before for being condescending towards other members, and you just wrote an entire essay personally attacking CSM. Not a good plan.

This post has been edited by Neal on 9th March 2007 20:46

Eh... I don't know if I'm alone here but I don't think CSM is having a giant rant, just sharing that he doesn't like to see Square-Enix go down the road of "sex sells"; if I understand correctly. I personally don't see anything wrong with it, but if he feels that SE shouldn't be putting out this stuff, then that's his opinion.

Also there's a fine distinction between looking up a revealing drawing of Tifa that some desperate teenager drew and seeing something that SE has produced which he feels is degrading. I don't think he'd lose his respect for Ashe if he stumbled upon a porn picture of her that wasn't commissioned by SE; if it was, that would be incredible.

Again, I really don't see anything wrong with the picture, but I don't think CSM does to quite the extent that he's made out to either. That's just my interpretation of it.

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

Quite frankly, if you ever think of going to a beach, don't do it, you will not have respect for anyone, ever.

Seriously, that picture is not obscene in any sense, it appears in the art book of Final Fantasy XII's strategy guide.

In any case, you should loose your respect in the people who draw this pictures, Ashe does not exist, and I doubt she asked for some two piece swimsuit to wear.

Dude, just chill, they are non existent.



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PS3 tag: TipoDLuffy

"...quite possibly the greatest game ever made"

CSM- Can you really "respect" a figment of someone's imagination?

Everyone else- Lay the hell off of him. He has his own standards, and this for whatever reason conflicted with them.

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Quote

Eh... I don't know if I'm alone here but I don't think CSM is having a giant rant, just sharing that he doesn't like to see Square-Enix go down the road of "sex sells"; if I understand correctly. I personally don't see anything wrong with it, but if he feels that SE shouldn't be putting out this stuff, then that's his opinion.

Also there's a fine distinction between looking up a revealing drawing of Tifa that some desperate teenager drew and seeing something that SE has produced which he feels is degrading. I don't think he'd lose his respect for Ashe if he stumbled upon a porn picture of her that wasn't commissioned by SE; if it was, that would be incredible.

Again, I really don't see anything wrong with the picture, but I don't think CSM does to quite the extent that he's made out to either. That's just my interpretation of it.

When I posted earlier, that's the impression I got from the thread as well.

There's nothing wrong with somebody like CSM feeling disappointed with something Squenix released (even if it is just art work). I mean, how many people were disappointed with Yuna's 180 degree turn in FX-2?... not only the personality and impression given to the gamer, but also the wardrobe which became more revealing. If he has some beef or concern with Ashe possibly going down that same road, respect it.

It's not kiddy, it's just his own personal opinion on character quality in a game. If you're gonna flame/insult somebody for their opinion, you should ask yourself if that is why you joined a forum to begin with.

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"Space for Rent"

Quote (NeoEx-Death @ 9th March 2007 19:36)

S***, a ninja could own a bakery if he wanted to make his life more productive.

I know this is off-topic, but I found the thought of Shadow running a bakery pretty interesting.

I found the bunny-lady kind of disturbing, seeing as it was official art. Actually, I found her whole character design kind of disturbing because I thought it was based entirely on fanservice, but it's not exactly a cause for alarm bells. Though, I haven't played FFXII, so I can't say.

SE doesn't need to cater to fanservice. I'm pretty sure they're going to alienate part of the female fanbase if they do so, because fanservice does draw in certain types of fans.

Note: Squeenix hottens up its male characters, too. 'Cept we ladies tend to be grossed out by just plain old acres of manflesh, and so they do things like put them in ascots instead. Yum.

Oh, and also, I don't want to jump on the YALLING! bandwagon, but I think the deeper problem here is that you say you've lost your respect for Ashe because she's been sexualized. I hate to sound like a crazy feminist, but that does sound to me like your respect of a woman (/woman character) hinges on them being an innocent virgin type (like Terra), with no sexual identity. You can see why that wouldn't be very cool.

If anything, you should say you lost respect for Square.

This post has been edited by L. Cully on 10th March 2007 06:47

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