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Tifa's Character

Posted: 22nd February 2012 16:08

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One of many interesting characters, I'll hope you agree. But I have this thing about Tifa that sort of annoys me.....how come she's so quiet and doesn't contradict Cloud's story for the actual set of events during the Nibelheim flashback? I understand when
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they're in the lifestream and Cloud has to find the real him etc.
but what about before? Fair enough she didn't want to alienate him by saying ummm nooo that's not what happened but please don't leave me!
Okay it would have ruined the story as we know if she properly said it but....I dunno it seems kind of...weird. I know she liked him and everything but still.... dry.gif

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Post #199415
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Posted: 22nd February 2012 22:31

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That's one of the things I've criticized about the story compared to the other FF's: they're not too big on clarity. It can get confusing.

Now, it's been a while since I played, but I think that the Nibelheim incident was covered up by Shinra, and Tifa didn't even remember. Somehow, they erased people's memories of the events there.

If that's correct, I hope that cleared things up.

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Posted: 23rd February 2012 04:18

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Quote (BlitzSage @ 22nd February 2012 17:31)
Now, it's been a while since I played, but I think that the Nibelheim incident was covered up by Shinra, and Tifa didn't even remember. Somehow, they erased people's memories of the events there.

Been a while for me, though I do know she was grievously wounded by Sephiroth. Didn't they say something along the lines to suggest that had something to do with it all? I can't fully remember.

Plus, maybe she only really remembered when Cloud came to save her in the reactor, since she was so traumatized by all the rest, that last moment of him being her hero may have been all that stood out from the whole experience?

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Posted: 23rd February 2012 15:51

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I think she says that she was so happy to see Cloud again she didn't want to mention that it wasn't true. She says that once she began playing along with it in Midgar so that he wouldn't be put off and run away she couldn't really stop. It kind of makes sense I suppose. In short she knew the whole time.

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Posted: 23rd February 2012 23:46

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I always figured she played along with Cloud's delusion as she thought doing otherwise would send him spiralling into insanity. She already knew he had a fragile mental state when she found him at the train station before the events of the game.

She probably figured that the lifestream was the best place to finally tell him since he was pretty far gone already and this was the only way to save him.
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Posted: 25th February 2012 01:15

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I pretty much agree with Cefca. Tifa was afraid that if she questioned Cloud's story, it would unbalance him further and perhaps cause a mental breakdown. He obviously already had a tenuous grip on reality, and she didn't want to make that even worse. Whether or not she made the right decision is debatable, of course, but she did what she thought was best.
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Posted: 27th February 2012 16:29

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Something Tifa says while in the lifestream with Cloud supports this:

Quote
I've been hiding it for some time, afraid that if I told you...something terrible might happen.
But, I'm not going to hide anything anymore


This post has been edited by Cefca on 27th February 2012 16:29
Post #199524
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Posted: 2nd March 2012 02:21

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Quote (Reod Dai @ 24th February 2012 20:15)
I pretty much agree with Cefca. Tifa was afraid that if she questioned Cloud's story, it would unbalance him further and perhaps cause a mental breakdown. He obviously already had a tenuous grip on reality, and she didn't want to make that even worse. Whether or not she made the right decision is debatable, of course, but she did what she thought was best.

It looks like Cefca and Reod Dai have the right answer, and I think the game does clear it up sufficiently in the lifestream sequence.

I can add that FF7 and all the characters in it are written by Japanese people, and therefore the characters' behavior strongly tend to be what is natural for Japanese people. One of the most prominent features of Japanese culture is the value they give to holding your tongue. What I'm saying by this, is that they feel they're behaving properly when stopping themselves from speaking up when the topic at hand includes any conflict, even when what they could be saying is crucially important information that everyone should know.

Considering the conflict between Cloud's memory and reality, I'd say Tifa is following this custom. So if we consider all of the info. about what happened in Nibelheim and say, "I understand Tifa's reason for holding her tongue, but it doesn't seem natural," then what annoys FinalFantasyAoibh is best explained with cultural differences between Japan and Western countries.

Does that make sense?

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Posted: 2nd March 2012 02:43

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Well, okay, it's been long for me, so answer this question. Did Tifa know Cloud when they were in Nibelheim? Because Cloud's memory of Zack was blocked out right, so he never mentioned him.
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Maybe she didn't know that he thought he was Zack, does that make sense?


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Posted: 2nd March 2012 03:01

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Quote (BlitzSage @ 1st March 2012 21:43)
Well, okay, it's been long for me, so answer this question. Did Tifa know Cloud when they were in Nibelheim? Because Cloud's memory of Zack was blocked out right, so he never mentioned him.
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Maybe she didn't know that he thought he was Zack, does that make sense?

Tifa knew Cloud when he was in Nibelheim. She knew him years before that too, because they grew up together.

The only thing she didn't know was
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that Cloud was in Nibelheim with Sephiroth, because Cloud kept his mask on.


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Posted: 2nd March 2012 03:27

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So she didn't know everything. And I don't think she knew that
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Cloud saved her after Sephiroth attacked her.
Right?

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Posted: 2nd March 2012 11:53

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Quote (BlitzSage @ 2nd March 2012 03:27)
So she didn't know everything. And I don't think she knew that
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Cloud saved her after Sephiroth attacked her.
Right?

Not until she saw it in Cloud's memory. She didn't even know he was there until she saw it either.
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Posted: 2nd March 2012 23:18

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Quote (Ejoty @ 2nd March 2012 02:21)
Quote (Reod Dai @ 24th February 2012 20:15)
I pretty much agree with Cefca.  Tifa was afraid that if she questioned Cloud's story, it would unbalance him further and perhaps cause a mental breakdown.  He obviously already had a tenuous grip on reality, and she didn't want to make that even worse.  Whether or not she made the right decision is debatable, of course, but she did what she thought was best.

It looks like Cefca and Reod Dai have the right answer, and I think the game does clear it up sufficiently in the lifestream sequence.

I can add that FF7 and all the characters in it are written by Japanese people, and therefore the characters' behavior strongly tend to be what is natural for Japanese people. One of the most prominent features of Japanese culture is the value they give to holding your tongue. What I'm saying by this, is that they feel they're behaving properly when stopping themselves from speaking up when the topic at hand includes any conflict, even when what they could be saying is crucially important information that everyone should know.

Considering the conflict between Cloud's memory and reality, I'd say Tifa is following this custom. So if we consider all of the info. about what happened in Nibelheim and say, "I understand Tifa's reason for holding her tongue, but it doesn't seem natural," then what annoys FinalFantasyAoibh is best explained with cultural differences between Japan and Western countries.

Does that make sense?

Yeah ok I think they are right too, I never put the pieces together if you know what I mean! And haha yes (even though I've only discovered it now) perhaps you're right with the cultural differences if that is the reason even though I'm now more inclined to go with the reason stated above. I think if that's the reason, I'd agree with this: "I understand Tifa's reason for holding her tongue, but it doesn't seem natural". So maybe annoyed isn't the correct word, perplexed works better.

And back to an earlier point beginning with BlitzSage:
Well I donít think they erased peopleís memories or anything. Everyone in the fire died except for Zack, Tifa, that master Zangan Cloud and Sephiroth.
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Shinra rebuilt the town and hired people to keep the secret. They thought however, (Iím assuming) that they had taken care of all the remaining people alive. Aka Zack and Cloud as experiments, Sephiroth was ďdeadĒ and they didnít know about Tifa and her martial arts master. Something I keep forgetting is that Tifa did get seriously injured by Sephiroth and he killed her father.
So yes it was traumatic, she probably didnít remember. Thanks for that point Perigryn. But she did remember it being burned down. When the party arrives in Nibelheim for the first time Cloud and Tifa are both shocked to see it rebuilt.

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"Please don't give me all my luck now. Make it all stretch. I don't mind waiting. Make it stretch for 70 years. "
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"You just don't get it do you? There's not a thing I don't cherish!"
Cloud Strife, FFVII: AC

Games Complete: FFVII, Crisis Core, Dirge of Cerberus, FFVIII, FFXII, FFXIII, FFXIII-2
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Posted: 3rd March 2012 00:10

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Quote (FinalFantasyAoibh @ 2nd March 2012 23:18)
So yes it was traumatic, she probably didnít remember. Thanks for that point Perigryn. But she did remember it being burned down. When the party arrives in Nibelheim for the first time Cloud and Tifa are both shocked to see it rebuilt.

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Yeh she remembers the place being burned down, that's the reason she went after Sephiroth. It was then that she was badly injured; so she'll remember the burning down of Nibelheim but not anything after she was injured.
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Posted: 3rd March 2012 00:14

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Quote
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. It was then that she was badly injured; so she'll remember the burning down of Nibelheim but not anything after she was injured.


That's very plausible indeed.

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"Please don't give me all my luck now. Make it all stretch. I don't mind waiting. Make it stretch for 70 years. "
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"You just don't get it do you? There's not a thing I don't cherish!"
Cloud Strife, FFVII: AC

Games Complete: FFVII, Crisis Core, Dirge of Cerberus, FFVIII, FFXII, FFXIII, FFXIII-2
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Posted: 3rd March 2012 01:02

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Quote (BlitzSage @ 1st March 2012 22:27)
So she didn't know everything. And I don't think she knew that
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Cloud saved her after Sephiroth attacked her.
Right?

You're right to say she didn't know it, but then again I think she

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says something showing she knows it's Cloud when he picks her up and moves her to the side after Sephiroth cut her. Didn't she say something about Cloud's promise?


I also think it's supposed to be clear that she's half conscious when she says it, and so doesn't retain the memory.

As for FinalFantasyAoibh, thanks for considering my view on it.

And yeah, I don't think there was any memory erasing by Shinra. I think the overall impression of Shinra we should get is that they weren't really scared about what the little civilians knew, and that it was more or less too huge to operate wisely or shrewdly. Kinda like how

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The foot soldiers kill Zack for resisting but let Cloud live because basically why work more than you have to?


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Post #199626
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Posted: 3rd March 2012 13:54

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Quote (Ejoty @ 3rd March 2012 01:02)
Quote (BlitzSage @ 1st March 2012 22:27)
So she didn't know everything. And I don't think she knew that
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Cloud saved her after Sephiroth attacked her.
Right?

You're right to say she didn't know it, but then again I think she

Possible spoilers: highlight to view
says something showing she knows it's Cloud when he picks her up and moves her to the side after Sephiroth cut her. Didn't she say something about Cloud's promise?


I also think it's supposed to be clear that she's half conscious when she says it, and so doesn't retain the memory.

As for FinalFantasyAoibh, thanks for considering my view on it.

You're welcome.

In VII I don't think Tifa says anything during the actual event, it's when she's watching it in the Lifestream she says something along the lines of "you kept your promise" or "you did keep your promise". In Crisis Core however, I'm almost sure she woke up and saw Cloud, but the events do differ a little.

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"Please don't give me all my luck now. Make it all stretch. I don't mind waiting. Make it stretch for 70 years. "
Robert Pattinson

"You just don't get it do you? There's not a thing I don't cherish!"
Cloud Strife, FFVII: AC

Games Complete: FFVII, Crisis Core, Dirge of Cerberus, FFVIII, FFXII, FFXIII, FFXIII-2
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Posted: 25th June 2013 21:36

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Quote (FinalFantasyAoibh @ 3rd March 2012 09:54)
In VII I don't think Tifa says anything during the actual event, it's when she's watching it in the Lifestream she says something along the lines of "you kept your promise" or "you did keep your promise".

I think this is right.

One thing nobody has mentioned (which makes me wonder if it's just me): Along with not wanting to mess with Cloud's mental state and the memory blockage caused by physical and psychological trauma from Nibelheim, I also think that at some level she was afraid that he was not really Cloud and wanted to believe it was him so she played along.

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Posted: 26th June 2013 11:28

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Quote (Ejoty @ 3rd March 2012 01:02)
And yeah, I don't think there was any memory erasing by Shinra.  I think the overall impression of Shinra we should  get is that they weren't really scared about what the little civilians knew, and that it was more or less too huge to operate wisely or shrewdly.

Nah man, remember the first time you arrive at Nibelheim in the game? Massive coverup operation. If I remember correctly, they've repopulated the town with actors, or people who know nothing about it.

This post has been edited by Blinge Odonata on 26th June 2013 11:29

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Posted: 27th August 2013 15:57

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Yeah Blinge Odonata, you're right. What I meant was that they didn't care if some little people had memories of the 'Sephiroth' event at Nibelheim because they had it all rebuilt and so they had strong evidence to support their denial of the event.

However, I still mean that Shinra was overgrown & clumsy. Afterall:

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Cloud & Zack escaped Nibelheim. Also later in the story, Cloud walks around the upper floors of the Shinra building unnoticed for quite some time, Cloud marches in the Junon parade etc.


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Posted: 29th August 2013 17:14

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Tifa is not like Aeris.

Aeris is in tune with the voices of the Planet, she is reassured, she has faith. She knows who she is (without knowing it), and sees everything that's happening (without seeing it).

Aeris is very zenlike.

Tifa is not.

Tifa is confused. She's frightened. She says so to Barrett after the destruction of the Sector 7 slums. She's conflicted. She can't make up her mind.

She is afraid of what will happen if she calls Cloud out on what she knows is BS. She is so freaked out and broken inside that she simply freezes up.

Later, in the Lifestream, before she finds Cloud's soul, Tifa's soul is examined.

She feels guilty. She doesn't like resorting to terrorist tactics to fight the Shinra, and she feels very bad for having caused the deaths of people in Midgar.

Tifa's redemption is not as closely examined as Cloud's, but it is a key element to the story. How Tifa got her groove back, if you will.

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Posted: 29th August 2013 21:15

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Quote (Spooniest @ 29th August 2013 13:14)
Tifa is confused. She's frightened. She says so to Barrett after the destruction of the Sector 7 slums. She's conflicted. She can't make up her mind.

She is afraid of what will happen if she calls Cloud out on what she knows is BS. She is so freaked out and broken inside that she simply freezes up.

Later, in the Lifestream, before she finds Cloud's soul, Tifa's soul is examined.

She feels guilty. She doesn't like resorting to terrorist tactics to fight the Shinra, and she feels very bad for having caused the deaths of people in Midgar.

Tifa's redemption is not as closely examined as Cloud's, but it is a key element to the story. How Tifa got her groove back, if you will.

This is a pretty good analysis of why Tifa is one of the best female characters in the series (if not the best).

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