Guides and Info News Fanworks Forums Chat Poll Store Options About
 

Just saw someone list ff4 as best game ever

Posted: 20th November 2010 02:56

Group Icon
Dude on a Walrus
Posts: 3,872

Joined: 16/10/2003

Awards:
Member of more than ten years. Major involvement in the Final Fantasy VI section of CoN. Major involvement in the Final Fantasy V section of CoN. Member of more than five years. 
Third place in CoNCAA, 2005. First place in CoN Fantasy Football, 2005. Has more than fifty news submissions to CoN. Major involvement in the Chrono Trigger section of CoN. 
Quote
So for this discussion, we should be paying attention to what features FFIV introduced that improved on the genre, for its fans.

Here are some major new (or semi-new) features in FFIV:
* Active Time Battle (ATB)
* turn-based battle commands for each character individually (as opposed to giving instructions to the whole team and letting it rip)
* highly variable party
* 5-member party (never used again, for some reason, though games like FFTA have 6-member parties)
* pre-specified stats for playable characters (i.e. no character class changing or stat tweaking)
* on a similar note, pre-specified character classes
* MP system for magic
* battle screen with background (probably from the increased graphical capability)
* an involved storyline and non-"blank slate" characters (kinda started in FF2, but that wasn't released overseas and is the black sheep of the series anyway); it's notable that this evolved into the selling point of JRPGs--the focus on plot (along with the (arguable) neglect of customizability)
* preset formations (choose between front/back/front/back/front or the reverse; this was also never seen again)
* playable character death
...did I miss anything else?


Everything I bolded is something that is in Dragon Quest II, III, or IV. DQ IV came out a year before FF IV. And it's not the only time in history where a five-character party (Lunar 1 and 2, for example) or front/back/front party organizations (Breath of Fire III and IV) were used. Let's not forge that three of the playable characters in FF II die, making FF IV the second game in its own series to have a playable character death, and not even the first MEMORABLE playable character death (which I'd give to Nei from Phantasy Star II, two years before FF IV). FF IV is a good RPG, and it may have started a few RPG conventions, but it's not as groundbreaking as you guys are making it out to be.

This post has been edited by laszlow on 20th November 2010 02:59

--------------------
Post #189681
Top
Posted: 20th November 2010 03:34

*
Master Tonberry
Posts: 4,453

Joined: 31/10/2003

Awards:
Member of more than ten years. Contributed to the Final Fantasy VI section of CoN. User has rated 25 fanarts in the CoN galleries. Member of more than five years. 
In response to the above post: Well, I was thinking of these things within the FF series. Though I did miss the thing about FFII (I knew about it but forgot it, partly because I haven't played FFII myself), so I'm in the hole anyway.

But yes, you do have a point, for gamers who weren't only playing FF games.

Though my post was not meant to praise or detract FFIV; I just meant to list a bunch of features it implemented, relative to the rest of its own series, and ask whether those should or shouldn't be considered groundbreaking. And for what it's worth, the FF name is better-known than the DQ name in the west, but I'm not sure if this applied back in the NES days.

--------------------
It Just Bugs Me! - a place to discuss media, real life, and other topics.
Post #189685
Top
Posted: 20th November 2010 17:27

*
Cactuar
Posts: 270

Joined: 29/10/2009


Since Epinions appears to be a site where anyone can create an account and write their own reviews of anything (hence the title of the site being based off the word "opinions"), I'm not entirely sure why this is thread-worthy in the first place, but whatever.

But on to my two cents regarding FFIV.

To quote...well, myself from the Unpopular Gaming Opinions thread -
Quote (Insegredious)
I don't see why everyone LOVES Final Fantasy IV. I know that for its time, it was quite revolutionary, but I feel that nostalgia is all that's keeping it alive through remake after remake. While story is important in a good RPG, gameplay is very important as well, and I thought the gameplay in FFIV was crap. I dislike it when RPGs go "this is your party. You can't change it around at all. Your party members can do what they can do and can't do what they can't do. We're going to kill off party members and introduce new ones whenever we want. Deal with it." (Although I did hear that the Augment system in the DS version was great.) This is perhaps my biggest criticism of Lunar: The Silver Star (low difficulty level notwithstanding), but I digress.
I also feel like they were making up the story as they went along.
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
("Wait, we've been everywhere in the overworld? Okay, let's have four more crystals in an UNDERWORLD! We're done there? Okay, now let's go to...the moon! And...and...Cecil and Golbez are part moon people! And they have to fight another evil moon person who we just met and who's actually the main bad guy oh look the game's done")



--------------------
EGG TOSS
YOU CARRY
EAT A BAG
LEMON-DY
HEAD SAUCE
JIM CARREY
IN A BEAR
HEAVEN PEE
DAFFY-ROTH
- brentalfloss
Post #189695
Top
Posted: 24th November 2010 14:00

*
Lunarian
Posts: 1,229

Joined: 19/6/2009

Awards:
Member of more than five years. 
Quote (laszlow @ 20th November 2010 02:56)
Quote
So for this discussion, we should be paying attention to what features FFIV introduced that improved on the genre, for its fans.

Here are some major new (or semi-new) features in FFIV:
* Active Time Battle (ATB)
* turn-based battle commands for each character individually (as opposed to giving instructions to the whole team and letting it rip)
* highly variable party
* 5-member party (never used again, for some reason, though games like FFTA have 6-member parties)
* pre-specified stats for playable characters (i.e. no character class changing or stat tweaking)
* on a similar note, pre-specified character classes
* MP system for magic
* battle screen with background (probably from the increased graphical capability)
* an involved storyline and non-"blank slate" characters (kinda started in FF2, but that wasn't released overseas and is the black sheep of the series anyway); it's notable that this evolved into the selling point of JRPGs--the focus on plot (along with the (arguable) neglect of customizability)
* preset formations (choose between front/back/front/back/front or the reverse; this was also never seen again)
* playable character death
...did I miss anything else?


Everything I bolded is something that is in Dragon Quest II, III, or IV. DQ IV came out a year before FF IV. And it's not the only time in history where a five-character party (Lunar 1 and 2, for example) or front/back/front party organizations (Breath of Fire III and IV) were used. Let's not forge that three of the playable characters in FF II die, making FF IV the second game in its own series to have a playable character death, and not even the first MEMORABLE playable character death (which I'd give to Nei from Phantasy Star II, two years before FF IV). FF IV is a good RPG, and it may have started a few RPG conventions, but it's not as groundbreaking as you guys are making it out to be.

Phantasy star did come before ff4.

But lunar 2 came like 6 months after ff4
Breath of fire 2 came out in 1994 and breath of fire 3 came out in like 1997.

Also:played dragon quest 2 and 3 on the nes.

I thought 2 was an improvement over 1 due to having more stuff than the first.

I thought that the characters though were still fairly nes and simplistic.

I still think though that this game is nowhere near as bad as it is portrayed here and while it isn't the best game ever,it certainly isn't the worse.

You could say also that all rpgs are rip off from tabletops and the original d&d which pre date all rpgs.

If we go at it like that:every game rips off the original.
Post #189879
Top
Posted: 24th November 2010 15:19

Group Icon
Dude on a Walrus
Posts: 3,872

Joined: 16/10/2003

Awards:
Member of more than ten years. Major involvement in the Final Fantasy VI section of CoN. Major involvement in the Final Fantasy V section of CoN. Member of more than five years. 
Third place in CoNCAA, 2005. First place in CoN Fantasy Football, 2005. Has more than fifty news submissions to CoN. Major involvement in the Chrono Trigger section of CoN. 
Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 19th November 2010 22:34)
In response to the above post: Well, I was thinking of these things within the FF series. Though I did miss the thing about FFII (I knew about it but forgot it, partly because I haven't played FFII myself), so I'm in the hole anyway.

But yes, you do have a point, for gamers who weren't only playing FF games.

You said "improved on the genre," so I assumed you were talking about RPGs in general.

And Magitek_Slayer, I'm aware that BoF III and Lunar came after FF IV, but for both of those examples GMH said that those elements were "never seen again" and I was delivering counterexamples.

--------------------
Post #189884
Top
Posted: 24th November 2010 19:30

*
Lunarian
Posts: 1,229

Joined: 19/6/2009

Awards:
Member of more than five years. 
Quote (laszlow @ 24th November 2010 15:19)
Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 19th November 2010 22:34)
In response to the above post: Well, I was thinking of these things within the FF series.  Though I did miss the thing about FFII (I knew about it but forgot it, partly because I haven't played FFII myself), so I'm in the hole anyway.

But yes, you do have a point, for gamers who weren't only playing FF games.

You said "improved on the genre," so I assumed you were talking about RPGs in general.

And Magitek_Slayer, I'm aware that BoF III and Lunar came after FF IV, but for both of those examples GMH said that those elements were "never seen again" and I was delivering counterexamples.

It sounded like you were bashing ff4 relentlessly,sorry for the attack.

Uh didn't breath of fire 3 come after ff7?.
Post #189902
Top
0 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members: