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Quote (Narratorway @ 10th May 2011 21:46)

This game is a port of the console version, an abhorrent practice most egregious here due to the fact that's it's a FPS. Let's get this straight right now: FPS were meant to be played on the PC with a mouse and keyboard. Anyone who says otherwise is lying.

Oh sure, FPS were developed and came into their own on Pc's.. but If you're correct here then Bioshock was an FPS made for consoles. So the version YOU played was a port of the console version, not the 'game.'
Using a controller the fighting wasn't clunky or awkward at all.

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i]Everything[/i] you did - every action you took - was all to serve your personal goal of escape save for ONE cutscene in which YOU HAVE NO CONTROL OVER THE CHARACTER.

Uh, at what point is it established that "your" personal goal is that of escaping rapture? It's not, you have no goal other than what Atlas is gabbing down the radio at you. For all we know the figure of Jack is actually happy as larry exploring the city.

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, the actual design of the levels is some of the worst I've seen in a FPS...ever.  I dare you to make sense of this image

You're attacking the map layout in the menu there. Not the way the actual levels are designed, yeah the maps pretty clumsy but doesn't serve as evidence in your favour in the slightest.

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you can't just kill them outright, but have to take pictures of them...as they're trying to KILL you!

You don't Have to do that at all, You can get through the game even on harder modes without using the research camera to excess, If at all. (the small mission objective being an exception)


Yeah yeah, its about unpopular opinions. But I thought I'd poke some holes in this terrible attempt at a rant and point out areas where dear narratorway is simply incorrect.


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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens

Quote (Holidae)

pretty easy to make sense of that map. the arrows by each staircase icon point to where you'll end up when you cross that point. simple enough.

Really. It's not any worse than a map from an early Zelda.

This post has been edited by Sherick on 10th May 2011 23:51

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I fear my heart and fear my soul
Life goes on, it surely will,
Without me and I wonder:
Will I ever see light again?

Life goes on...

Alright

1) COMPLETELY missing the point I was making with regards to the map. Since you (BO in this case) is so thick I'll spell it out (actually he's missing the point for all the other things too, but whatever). THE LEVEL DESIGN IS POOR. Levels are confusing and repetitive, mostly consisting of corridors that are all the same size. This is a game whose level design was so god-awful as to justify an arrow that pointed you to where you needed to go.

2) Sherick: Which Zelda games are those, cause I aint played any Zelda game with a map as poorly done as Bioshock's, even if that wasn't the point.

3) I COMPLETELY forgot to talk about the absolutely monotonous, uninspired, and soul crushingly repetitive game design elements. How many levels do you go through in the game before you reach a level that:

- does NOT have the exit close to the entrance.
- does NOT have the exit immediately blocked by a plot contrivance.
- does NOT require MULTIPLE fetch quests in order to open the exit?

Or hell, how about I just ask how many levels DO NOT feature a fetch quest?

This post has been edited by Narratorway on 11th May 2011 02:42

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Arts

Farts

Twarts

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While them textures may be pretty, the actual design of the levels is some of the worst I've seen in a FPS...ever. I dare you to make sense of this image:

You'll forgive us if we inferred that you found the level maps too confusing from exactly what you said implying that.

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I fear my heart and fear my soul
Life goes on, it surely will,
Without me and I wonder:
Will I ever see light again?

Life goes on...

Quote (Narratorway @ 10th May 2011 22:37)

- does NOT have the exit close to the entrance.

the fact that rapture is an underwater city would be why that is. it only make sense, when designing a city with no streets that you'd have entrances and exits close by. same goes for why the corridors tend to be the same.

This post has been edited by Malevolence on 11th May 2011 07:22

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moé in the streets, senpai in the sheets

Quote (Narratorway @ 11th May 2011 02:37)

Since you (BO in this case) is so thick

You're not doing yourself any favours, man.

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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens

Quote (Narratorway @ 10th May 2011 22:46)

  Yeah, I said it!  It was more than just overrated, it was outright muthaf*cking bad yo!  Let me count the goddamn ways!

1) T'was a s*** port!
2) T'was a s*** story!
3) T'was a s*** game!

I'd say you've got yourself a very unpopular set of opinions there. Overrated and bad? Nah. The right parts were royally welcomed and the bad aspects of the game, and there definitely were bad parts, were rightly slated. Overall what Bioshock brings to games is a reboot of the old days when good ideas and context meant a lot, like System Shock! Bioshock isn't the only game to do this and of course it's not the first, however the more the better especially if it's popular.

1) BO is right the console game had a much slicker control system than I'd imagine the PC version did. I usually don't mind playing games like Bioshock on either controls. There weren't too many times where I had to do fast-paced frantic running and gunning so I would be happy with a joystick if that's all I could use.

2) That's very harsh. Maybe you're right in that something a bit more radical seems revolutionary when people are playing so many standard-issue shooting games. Nonetheless the designs and ideas of the world, characters and atmosphere was such a relief from the bags of other FPS games. Sure there are non-FPS games with a similar uniqueness, but FPS allows for a lot of things that other games can't provide. The set-pieces and exposition were amazing too, right up there with the greats. Some parts of the story were token, and others maybe a little predictable, but overall I was so taken in by the undersea world that I was happy to let the plot take me through it however it wanted to. Also I just want to stress that the game had such an effective crushing atmosphere, no pun intended on my part. There were so many consistent nods to the idea of a world in ruins it was a joy to play through and see them all.

And the article you linked about Objectivism, I don't agree at all with what the response was. Saying Bioshock isn't about Existentialism / Objectivism is like saying the Pope isn't a Catholic. It's thick to the gills with Existentialist thinking throughout the entire game. Even if the author thought that it wasn't Objectivist thinking that ruined the city, the point of the game is that it did. That's what one of the central messages is. And I for one don't think it was badly delivered. I finished the game thinking: Would this happen in reality? It is, after all, just an interpretation, and I'm fine with people having their own ideas whether Bioshock is right or not. But just bringing up these questions is what makes the story that much better. The game isn't bad because you don't agree with what the creator's message is. Actually the journalist even says he should've given the Bioshock writers a lot more credit!

3) I kind of agree that the shifts between parts of the city were a bit jarring. If I wanted to go through taking photos of everyone then I would find it a real pain going through all the loading screens and boats. In the game's defence I would say that the basic plotline and pacing is alright. There was a time when things started to sag and the levels were tedious, I totally agree. However just when I was getting to the point where it was actually boring, the game picked up again. I can't ever imagine myself playing it again, but then I could say the same thing about Portal 1 or 2. I'd put this problem more down to the fact that it's a depressing nightmare city with a crushing atmosphere deep in the ocean, and surely that kind of heavy story will result in players being put off if it is effective. I'd still not put that down as a criticism however.

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

Quote (sweetdude @ 11th May 2011 10:57)

And the article you linked about Objectivism, I don't agree at all with what the response was. Saying Bioshock isn't about Existentialism / Objectivism is like saying the Pope isn't a Catholic. It's thick to the gills with Existentialist thinking throughout the entire game. Even if the author thought that it wasn't Objectivist thinking that ruined the city, the point of the game is that it did. That's what one of the central messages is. And I for one don't think it was badly delivered. I finished the game thinking: Would this happen in reality? It is, after all, just an interpretation, and I'm fine with people having their own ideas whether Bioshock is right or not. But just bringing up these questions is what makes the story that much better. The game isn't bad because you don't agree with what the creator's message is. Actually the journalist even says he should've given the Bioshock writers a lot more credit!

The whole key to Objectivist thought, from the words of Ayn Rand: you should not place anyone's well being above your own. Ayn Rand described herself as being anti-altruistic, meaning she did not believe in charity. The idea is that they tried to make their own society with no government intervention where people looked out for their own self interests rather than others. And because of this

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

one person takes over and manipulates you through the first half of the game. Their critique is that Objectivism places no barriers on the possibility for one's interest could to lead to manipulation.

And I should point out that, while other games have fine stories, this may be one of the only ones ever that you could have a deep philosophical argument with it. In that sense, it could very well be one of the most important games of the past decade.

They might fail, perhaps, in pointing out the flaws in that branch of philosophy, but in criticizing the entire realist political paradigm it points out that only caring for yourself leads to destruction. This could lead one to believe that people like Ayn Rand had a distorted opinion of what an individual's self interest is.

This post has been edited by BlitzSage on 11th May 2011 18:08

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Praise Be To Helix!

Alright here's one.
I prefered Majora's Mask to Ocarina of Time. AND WHAT

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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens

Quote (Blinge Odonata @ 19th May 2011 07:25)

Alright here's one.
I prefered Majora's Mask to Ocarina of Time. AND WHAT

So did my cousin! And (though I'm not too big on the LoZ series) so did I! I thought it took more risks and was more interesting.

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Praise Be To Helix!

I will add to the Zelda post by making it more generalized :

I prefer Pre 64 Zelda to any post 64 Zelda. But that goes along with all the games anymore (Metroid, Mario, etc).

I too preferred Majora's Mask, though Ocarina is still amongst my favorite games. I just think Majora's Mask is a borderline work of art.

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I fear my heart and fear my soul
Life goes on, it surely will,
Without me and I wonder:
Will I ever see light again?

Life goes on...

Ah. maybe not so unpopular then. Can you expand on the 'work of art' thing Sherick?
I'll make a new thread..

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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens

Well, MM's clearly superior I do agree.
Regardless, OOT was amazing and OOT3DS will be as well.

And as far as unpopular opinions go, MISCHIEF MAKERS (N64) IS A GREAT GAME.

This post has been edited by vividesu on 21st May 2011 01:48

Here's unpopular for you:

I don't like the Legend of Zelda!

It's a shame,really. On paper, it's got everything I could ever want: Epic fantasy, brain-bending puzzles, great music and graphics... but it just doesn't "click" for me the way other games do.

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"When we think there's no hope left, we keep looking until we find some!" - Claire Farron

None of them ? Ive met people who like the older ones (myself included) or people that like the newer ones ... but never someone who didnt like either. Guess that definitely qualifies for this thread.

Quote (Smash Genesis @ 22nd May 2011 10:49)

Here's unpopular for you:

I don't like the Legend of Zelda!

It's a shame,really. On paper, it's got everything I could ever want: Epic fantasy, brain-bending puzzles, great music and graphics... but it just doesn't "click" for me the way other games do.

I'll go to the unpopular edge-of-cliff along with you. And what I've said previously about MM I still believe. But overall, there are other series that are much more interesting to me. The reason for me is the reason I just posted in the MM thread. Unlike, say, the top FF games, or another brilliant adventure/puzzle game Shadow of the Colossus, LoZ doesn't really bring up philosophical ideas (excluding MM, as I stated). Now, full disclosure. I've probably not given them (the LoZ games) enough time to think over. But the FF games make you question systems of power (games like VI, VII, IX, CT all seem to show some Marxist ideas). I just don't see that from LoZ, though they're great adventure games.

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Praise Be To Helix!

I'm going to get ostracized for this!

I don't have any care to play Mass Effect or Mass Effect 2.

I've even heard from several people I'd like it, but it looks really space-sci-fi, and I hate space sci fi. I never even saw all of Star Wars!

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You're telling me that there's no hope.

I'm telling you you're wrong.

I'm not a big fan of the Dragon Quest series. In idea, they should be perfect because they are turn based and don't get me wrong DQ 8 was a gorgeously colorful game visually but I hate grinding and you have to grind in those games. I'm also not a fan of the Tales of.....series despite their very nice and colorful visuals either because I don't like the free for all battle system and AI controlled characters. I think the only situation where I've like the execution of AI controlled characters is Secret of Mana. The switch easy switch between to gain control of the other characters was good and a lot smoother in my opinion.

Also, Frog and Ayla are my least favorite characters in Chrono Trigger.

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Chewbekah ^_^

Currently Playing: Final Fantasy XIV: ARR, Attack of the Firday Monsters, Animal Crossing: A New Leaf, Lego City Undercover, Kingdom Hearts 1.5 Remix

Recently Finished: Fire Emblem: Awakening

Favorite Game: Suikoden III

Quote (RelmArrowney @ 22nd May 2011 18:24)

I'm going to get ostracized for this!

I don't have any care to play Mass Effect or Mass Effect 2.

I've even heard from several people I'd like it, but it looks really space-sci-fi, and I hate space sci fi. I never even saw all of Star Wars!

Wow, how do you watch movies? lol. Everything's sci-fi these days.

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Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (RelmArrowney @ 22nd May 2011 22:24)

I've even heard from several people I'd like it, but it looks really space-sci-fi, and I hate space sci fi.  I never even saw all of Star Wars!

Yeah I thought Star Wars in general was a steaming pile of ****. This is probably because I watched every film in a few days, aged 19, with no nostalgia filter.
The exception is Empire Strikes Back, which I quite liked.

My suggestion to you is read William Gibson's Neuromancer . Specifically, It's one of the earliest Cyberpunk novels, I won't advertise it any more though it's up to you after all.

Quote (BlitzSage)

Wow, how do you watch movies? lol.

Also Relm; Wow, how do you play (later) FF? lol.

This post has been edited by Blinge Odonata on 23rd May 2011 10:16

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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens

Blinge, I liked FFVII (wasn't about space), haha.

I should clarify

Robots are awesome, so any game with robots (Tio from Grandia II) I really like, especially if they have an identity crisis. I just don't care for overly sophisticated technology usually. Not a fan of metallic backdrops!

But space travel, other planets, and the like really don't interest me. The story itself would have to be fantastic with notes of sci-fi space travel, and not just mostly space travel (Star Ocean 3). Star Ocean 2 had a great balance because although you met other people from different planets and even travelled to another planet, it didn't take place in a space ship. Sucks, because I heard Star Ocean 3 was actually pretty good. I just can't get into that type of game as easily.



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You're telling me that there's no hope.

I'm telling you you're wrong.

Quote (RelmArrowney @ 23rd May 2011 07:20)

Blinge, I liked FFVII (wasn't about space), haha.

There was space travel, well, almost, lol.

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Praise Be To Helix!

Here's an unpopular opinion: FFX is better than all three of the PS1 Final Fantasies, including FFVII. It could have been improved by a real world map though.

Also: Not to resurrect the topic of Bioshock from up above, but I love Bioshock to death. I thought the atmosphere was awesome and the story had me grinning from ear to ear. Objectivism is a completely ridiculous philosophy, and Bioshock does a decent job showing the player why.

Edit

FFX is not better than FFT.

This post has been edited by jtdurai on 23rd May 2011 20:32

@Narratorway: Well, were the environments fun to experience, at least? The map doesn't look too complicated.

Edit

OH HOLY CRAP THERE WAS ANOTHER PAGE OF POSTS.

This post has been edited by Glenn Magus Harvey on 9th June 2011 17:21

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current games (2024-02-19):
Fairy Fencer F ADF
Pokémon Perfect Crystal

finished so far this year:
Gato Roboto
drowning, drowning
New Super Mario Bros.
TMNT 3: Radical Rescue

tabled: Lost Ruins

Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 9th June 2011 10:19)

@Narratorway: Well, were the environments fun to experience, at least? The map doesn't look too complicated.

The point regarding the map was to say that if the level design was worth a damn, the map wouldn't be confusing in the first place.

But no, I didn't find the environments all that compelling. You had your lava level, your plant level, ice caves...etc. It was so uninspired, it practically felt like a parody. If it had included a minecart level, I wouldn't have been all that surprised. They also completely lacked any scale. Doom3 had more open environments.

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Arts

Farts

Twarts

Quote (jtdurai @ 23rd May 2011 16:20)

Here's an unpopular opinion: FFX is better than all three of the PS1 Final Fantasies, including FFVII. It could have been improved by a real world map though.

A potentially unpopular opinion that I happen to fully agree with

Actually, as I was playing it earlier today, I thought the same thing: FFX with a world map you could actually explore by airship would have been really interesting. I don't think it would have worked well if you were able to walk over the world map like in all the previous FFs simply because, unlike the FFs before it, you can actually walk through from any one area to another (aside from the islands, of course). Since you actually can travel the world by foot, and in a manner that is considerably more realistic than its predecessors, I don't think a world map in the sense of, say, FFVII would have been successful. But just being able to pilot the airship yourself would have been an interesting addition.

Heh, sorry for jumping off topic there.

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Currently Playing : Final Fantasy V
Most Recently Beat : Elder Scrolls: Skyrim
Favorite Game : Final Fantasy X

The newest CoNcast is up! Have a listen!

Quote (Death Penalty @ 8th August 2011 04:03)

Quote (jtdurai @ 23rd May 2011 16:20)

Here's an unpopular opinion: FFX is better than all three of the PS1 Final Fantasies, including FFVII. It could have been improved by a real world map though.

A potentially unpopular opinion that I happen to fully agree with

Actually, as I was playing it earlier today, I thought the same thing: FFX with a world map you could actually explore by airship would have been really interesting. I don't think it would have worked well if you were able to walk over the world map like in all the previous FFs simply because, unlike the FFs before it, you can actually walk through from any one area to another (aside from the islands, of course). Since you actually can travel the world by foot, and in a manner that is considerably more realistic than its predecessors, I don't think a world map in the sense of, say, FFVII would have been successful. But just being able to pilot the airship yourself would have been an interesting addition.

Heh, sorry for jumping off topic there.

I thought FFX was too linear. You can't really travel that many places until you're almost done with the game.

I hate online games period.

When your new at a game people call you a noob.
most gaming related deaths come from online games.
Your friends are not at your house.
In online RPG's you have to make friends sometimes with random people to complete certain tasks.
When you are a veteran they still call you a noob.
you can't talk to your friend unless you wear a stupid Blutooth headset or something.
Another thing in online RPG's the guys who thinks it's funny to kill ya when they're level 100 and your level 1 just so they can laugh at your pain.
If your a pro at a game and make one little mistake they call you a NOOB!!!


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I treasure those who I love that love me in return. <3

I hate TWEWY. That is all.

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this is a blog mostly about comics and videogames
END SPOILER