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Just got my hands on XIII

Posted: 10th March 2010 23:40

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Well, this is just a friendly notice that I just got my hands on XIII and will be completing a run through. It should take me about a week or so, given that I am on leave(which just so happened to coincide with the release date). I'll be sure to write up a review as soon as I am done, though I will probably be posting snippets as I play through the game proper.

So, feel free to bash, insult, criticize my spending or encourage me, and look forward to a lengthy review when all is said and done.

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Posted: 11th March 2010 01:30

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Alright, so here is a little bit of info on the intro. The game starts with the train section that you've all probably seen in the trailers, and while I won't go into any major story details, I will say that it follows a somewhat familiar route.

You immediately control Lightning and Sazh, which is kind of interesting in that you typically start a Final Fantasy alone. After a few tutorial fights you switch over to Snow and get to see events from his point of view, which is handled fairly well also, considering that the events are concurrent. You then switch to Hope and Vanille, so that after about an hour you have controlled five of the games characters and have learned how to fight with them, if only in the most basic sense.


The game seems very linear so far, which is kind of an annoyance, but because of the pace of the fighting it isn't really an issue. The fighting system itself is handled well and proves very intuitive after three or four fights. Some of the AI decisions leave something to be desired,. but that is to be expected in the early goings. There is also a 'retry' option that allows you to start a battle over if things are not going too well. I haven't had to use it yet, and that speaks volumes about my next rant, difficulty.

This game is seemingly catered to the casual gamer. After each fight your HP is restored completely, none of the fights (even bosses) are remotely challenging and take about 15 seconds on average to complete. The enemies seem to fall victim to the 'shoot the other character but no the leader' flaw, and there are no tactics at all. Again this may all be because of the fact that I am still in the opening of the game, and I look forward to the difficulty ramping itself up at some point. Also, enemies are handled like XII, which can be a good or bad thing depending on preference. I haven't yet gotten access to the level up system, but the rapid accumulation of points after each fight has me thinking it will be very similar to XII.

The music is very good, fitting in well with the events, the fight music seems out of place (violins?!?) but after a while kind of fades to the background. There is no appearance of the dreaded Leona Lewis song as of yet, which leads me to believe that my earlier suspicions about it being an ending credit song are true.

Edit
Alright, so the song is played at about 2:30 or so, and given the surrounding story events does not detract from the game at all. It actually almost fits in perfectly, and yes it is the same scene as the one revealed in the trailer, but again, with the meat of the surrounding story events, it seems much more coherent and less like a 'Here's Leona Lewis!' moment. So, no more complaints, alright?


More to come tomorrow, after I get a little more headway into this gem.

This post has been edited by Nytecrawla on 11th March 2010 03:20

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Posted: 11th March 2010 10:50

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I'm playing the Xbox version myself, and am currently mid-way through the second disc. I have to say, I find myself enjoying this game quite a bit. The difficulty, as you say, Nyte, leaves something to be desired at first, but really starts to liven up after one specific event takes place and one of the core elements of the battle system (Paradigm Shifting) really gets to shine.

With the exception of Vanille, the voice acting is really impressive, the characters themselves, all believable and engaging, not to mention the world these characters are in, well, it's very impressive so far.

This post has been edited by Dragon_Fire on 11th March 2010 19:38

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Posted: 11th March 2010 14:15

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Congratulations to Square-Enix on a job well done! Thanks to the successful effort put into this game, Final Fantasy 8 is no longer the worst singleplayer non-sequel Final Fantasy game in existence! They have also given me what I always wanted: A game that sucked exactly as I predicted!

Dreadful voices! Predicted lame battle system! Simplified combat! Railroading like you've never seen before!

Seriously, I don't need to play it. I watched Caz play after he elected to buy it (Personally I was going to hold out for the second hand so there's less money wasted when I empty an Airsoft Klobb into the box, but meh), and there's nothing. No motivation, no driving force. I really don't care about the characters, I don't care about the world. The shiny graphics they spent so long on are wasted because there's no substance to this game beyond them.

The rest of the music isn't exactly mind-blowing, and the use of that damn song more than once is not encouraging, regardless of scene context. I will not stand for a boring cast that I wish to die in a fire. Especially Vanille. Ye gods, where did they find this abomination?

Frankly, they shouldn't have bothered with the graphics. This game would have been right at home on the Wii or PS2 and they could have produced it in a third of the time and still sold just as much.

Why would they do this? Create a visually stunning world, and then railroad you through the most boring parts of it for fifteen feckin hours? They try to disguise it by having a faux fast-paced start scene that drops you into it, but they explain nothing. They just throw words at you, cut from character to character, and barely give us time to do anything but gain simple but lasting impressions.

Lightning is just an uncaring cold cow, who no doubt warms up six hours after I stop caring. Snow is a retard. His buddies are a prostitute and some window lickers. Hope is a whiny little brat. Vanille is ear rape personified. Sazh is the One Cool Guy. I don't think Caz has met anyone else yet and frankly I don't have any reason to watch other than the snark factor.

Even when the game tries to draw you in it fails. One bit that should be a shocker, so early and obvious it's not really a spoiler but just in case:
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
A large number of refugees are killed in the collapse of a bridge, including the mother of Hope. The flaw with this scene is that some characters barely care, including Snow, the one who was trying to save all the people he just led to their deaths! Instead, he just blunders around, calling himself a hero and almost justifying every little whiny brat moment from Hope.

Only Sazh commented on the event and it's obvious it shook him, and Lighting has her own defence, but Snow and his Merry Men's response to the horrific deaths of dozens of the people they wanted to save amounts to "Whoops, oh well, plenty more where they came from." It just seems very uncaring.

Top that off with the fact we barely have any reason to really care about Hope's Dead Mother because all she does is blunder right into dying in front of her son (Nice work, Mum! Moms might be tough, but it seems they're retarded too!) and make her death completely pointless.


Well, that's me done ranting for now, I'm sure there's a wealth of more stupid rubbish buried in this game or maybe even some point where it does get good but I'm not digging deep to find it.



This post has been edited by Del S on 11th March 2010 14:29

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Posted: 11th March 2010 17:56

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Quote (Del S @ 11th March 2010 10:15)
Wall of Del

Sorry, Del, it's not often that I disagree with you, but I've gotta call you on this. The spoiler event you mentioned actually takes a profound impact toward both Hope and Snow, but the extent of it isn't seen until some time later. it actually shapes a good chunk of the middle of the game, once you get past the first bit.

I don't necessarily like Snow, but I think his character is well thought up. Same for Lightning and Hope, though he absolutely lays the whiny, teen angst bit on thick. Sazh is probably the most "human" in that he feels the most like someone we all can identify with, and seems the most out of place caught in the middle of whatever struggle is going on.

I enjoy the battle system immensely, but that's just me.

This game is certainly not the best Final Fantasy to date, and there are plenty of flaws to be pointed out, but it's still light years ahead of Final Fantasy VIII. It sounds to me like you expected to hate this game, say it in action with that mindset and only saw things you didn't like. I'd hardly call that giving the game a chance, but it's well within your right to do.

but yeah, no, the Leona Lewis song does completely blow. Almost as bad as Eyes on Me did.

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Posted: 11th March 2010 19:14

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Steamrolling right along, I've managed to get about 3 hours into the second disc, and the story is starting to find it's legs, albeit shakily.

The combat system finally ramped up, and I know exactly which battle it was. The paradigm system is very well executed, and I can tell that the majority of this game is combat centric, which does it a disquality I think. I love the combat system, but the story is what sells these games and so far I haven't been impressed by it.

The crystal grid is kind of an annoyance, in that the required points seem to shoot up into the stratosphere very early on, requiring you to fight battle after battle in order to access the skills needed to really put a dent into a few of the bosses. I like the Eidolon system too, and while the transformations are rather jarring, the fact that they are optional kind of redeems them for me.

The only real complaint I have so far is again, the lack of a real solid story, but it seems to be pacing itself rather well outside of the combat arena that is.

Character development is a blight too, but I have hope that they will be further fleshed out. I have found that looking through the dataport thingy, that the events and back story are better fleshed out, and if people take the time to actually read all of the pertinent information, they will be pleased with the amount of characer development. I just don't like the fact that you have to go looking for it.

So far I feel like Square focused too much on the combat portion of this game, but time will tell.

This post has been edited by Nytecrawla on 11th March 2010 19:15

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Posted: 11th March 2010 19:47
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Quote (Nytecrawla @ 11th March 2010 19:14)
I have found that looking through the dataport thingy, that the events and back story are better fleshed out, and if people take the time to actually read all of the pertinent information, they will be pleased with the amount of characer development. I just don't like the fact that you have to go looking for it.


I'm only maybe 3 or 4 hours in, and while I like the information in the dataport, there's just so much of it that I'm trying to tell myself to not stop and read it every time a new entry is added. Makes me feel like I'm spending more time reading a description of what I just did than playing the game. Entries on the plot so far, enemies, locations, battle techniques... maybe it's just because I'm so early on in the game and everything is new.

So far though I enjoy it, though it's definitely not my ideal RPG. Honestly I'd be happier with a new 2D, SNES-style Final Fantasy than this, but that's just because I'm an old fart. Hopefully the "linearity" I keep hearing about won't ruin the experience.

This post has been edited by BoBear2681 on 11th March 2010 19:48
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Posted: 11th March 2010 20:35

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You don't really notice the linearity unless you specifically focus on it. The pace of the game is such that it isn't an issue. It's like FFX in the sense that you have a map, and it's all laid out for you, you can run back on forth on the map, and I am sure that later on there will be an option to just flat out explore.

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Posted: 12th March 2010 05:25

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I haven't picked it up yet, but thus far my friend who I trust to not steer me wrong as far as Final Fantasy games go told me it's not nearly as bad as he expected. He then followed that it up with "At the beginning of the game you're on a train, and you fight a bunch of soldiers and you have a black teammate who uses a firearm of some type" which, I admit, terrifies me in no good way.

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Posted: 12th March 2010 15:26

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Alright folks, back at it again. I'm more than halfway through the game, so I've decided to focus on some of the more esoteric aspects that I've noticed. I love the atmosphere of this game. I'm just starting to get to the point where I can actually explore a bit, and the cities are amazing. They actually feel alive, a big part of this is the lack of having to initiate conversations, people just talk to you as you get close. The background elements are amazing as well, and I don't feel like I am looking at a watercolor world (*cough* Final Fantasy IX *cough*). There are easter eggs every where too, including that most of the Fal'cie are named after old summons and espers (Carbuncle, Eden, Kajata, etc) and the ships and locales also are chock full of throwback goodness. The best example of this I've seen is in the city of Nautilus, when a group of kids run by and say 'Run run or you'll be well done!'


The story is starting to reveal itself a bit more, and contrary to popular belief isn't just a rehash of previous Final Fantasy games. The characters are painfully aware of their place in the world, and know that attempting a coup is just foolhardy and would throw everything into chaos. That is refreshing,

The characters are also starting to develop themselves more, which is nice. Hope is still a teen and has all the characteristics of a teen, but after certain events starts to mature a bit. Vanille, while having a slightly annoying voice (No one like Tara Strong's voice acting it seems, she was bad as Rikku too.) is actually a very deep character whose motivations are hampered by self doubt, yet manages to impart a strong facade of cheerfulness. Snow and Lightning are very similar in respect to their backgrounds, and after a while actually seem to get along, though things remain chilly between them at best. Sazh is the everyman, and the reason for his hesitance is actually well done.

There was a mention of a very early event in the game as evidence of Square trying to elicit an emotional response. This is not the case at all, as the event in question actually leads to the characterization of two of the party members and shapes their interaction for the rest of the game.

All in all things are looking pretty solid still, but we'll see what disc three brings.

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Posted: 13th March 2010 00:55

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Quote (Nytecrawla @ 12th March 2010 10:26)
(*cough* Final Fantasy IX *cough*)

Aw man, I though FFIX was gorgeous.

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Posted: 13th March 2010 01:43

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hmmm, i was not that much into buying this game right now, but by your review, it seems to be, at least, a good game, maybe above average if we consider the japanese industry in terms of rpg... Now I want to get it, but it's so expensive here, and my college books are too... cry.gif

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Posted: 14th March 2010 05:28

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Quote
You don't really notice the linearity unless you specifically focus on it.


It's definitely noticable whether you focus on it or not. All you do is fight, walk in a straight line, and view cutscenes. It's very mentally exhausting because you don't have the option of strolling along towns, fun stuff like equipment mangement, NPCs, sidequests, etc etc.

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Posted: 14th March 2010 09:18

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Quote (Tryscal The Great @ 14th March 2010 01:28)
Quote
You don't really notice the linearity unless you specifically focus on it.


It's definitely noticable whether you focus on it or not. All you do is fight, walk in a straight line, and view cutscenes. It's very mentally exhausting because you don't have the option of strolling along towns, fun stuff like equipment mangement, NPCs, sidequests, etc etc.

You get quite a bit in terms of skill and ability growth management and weapon or accessory upgrading, if micromanaging is what you're looking for. And, as it has been mentioned, while there are no "towns" to explore, the third disc, or last portion of the game depending on your console, opens up the world significantly for you to explore, offering side quests, and a few other bonuses that I won't spoil but certainly make the journey to said point well worth your while.

What bothers me about the linearity as an issue argument is that most of the older games; Final Fantasies held in high esteem, present little more or in some instances, significantly less freedom than this game does. Yes, there are towns and a world map you can travel across, however, your path was always clearly predetermined and you could only go so far as your current level would allow, or the plot would leave open.

For example, good luck getting to Vector fresh out of Narshe, or heading to Wutai when you're forced to travel the Sector 7 Slums.

Of course, there's no satisfying everyone. Had they stuck with the old formulas, people would complain that the series lacks any form of innovation and opts to rehash the same, tired conventions of getting your quests from npcs, buying new gear as you come to each town, battling through a forest or cave or castle, gaining an airship, etc, etc, etc.

That isn't to say that this new formula is perfect, but at least it's something different and new which, to me at least, is refreshing. Nothing against the old games, but if I want to experience something in than vein, I'll just play those.

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Posted: 14th March 2010 11:20

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The problem is, that was then, this is now. FF10 was really the first to get heavy flak for railroading, because that was the turn of the century and the rise of the Sandbox. MMO's, Western RPG's, third-person adventures, all of them went into the idea of a wide open world with options outside the main story. Even 10 let you go back eventually, but 13, as far as I'm aware, there's nothing to go back to in the first place.

It's the lack of the option to turn left or right that is the problem. There was plenty to distract from the ultimate linearity of plot in previous games, and indeed some of my favourite games are ultimately linear. Half-Life 2, Left 4 Dead, FF6, FF9, MGS3, MGS4, Killzone, GTA San Andreas, every one of those games walks a definable line in the end. Some of those games simply offer more lines and pit stops, or have other reasons to play again and again.

FF12 is the benchmark to compare 13 to, or even FF X-2. In terms of walking a line, neither of those games were as linear as 13, because though the plot was always a to b, you had the option to turn left or right off the set path and do something outside the main story in both games, something optional. Both games had their own flaws, but of the two, only X-2 had anything near as many huge problems and by and large those were similar problems. It's telling that the same team worked on the two games. Less than stellar music, boring plot, characters as dull as dishwater, slow to start, both supposed to get better towards the end.

Linear is not in itself bad. It is when it is poorly applied, blatantly obvious, and coupled with other flaws. FF13 has, for me, the worst characters yet, the slowest story yet, and its efforts to conceal the elephant in the living room simply mean everyone starts wondering if it's African or Indian instead.

The battle system also is another smokescreen. You can't move your position in the battle as far as I know, and after the flexibility of 12 where the battlefield was wherever the hell you were standing and you could stand where you like, this is a huge downgrade to me. Couple that with having limited "Attack Pattern Alpha" control over the rest of the party, and there's no fun in the sun. I like options in games, and if the game tells me it takes twenty hours before I can even select what character I control or go in more than one direction, I'm out. True, I was never really in to start with, but it made a very bad impression on me watching the first three hours played by someone else.

What is there would have been mind-blowing even ten years ago. But the times they are a changing, and FF13 is a decade-old game in a minute-old coat. It's missing so much you can't help but see what's not there, and see what is there for what it truly is. I simply wouldn't have the will go go through it.

Sometimes change can go horribly wrong. For me, this was one of those times.

This post has been edited by Del S on 14th March 2010 11:22

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Posted: 14th March 2010 20:25

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Quote (Tryscal The Great @ 14th March 2010 00:28)
Quote
You don't really notice the linearity unless you specifically focus on it.


It's definitely noticable whether you focus on it or not. All you do is fight, walk in a straight line, and view cutscenes. It's very mentally exhausting because you don't have the option of strolling along towns, fun stuff like equipment mangement, NPCs, sidequests, etc etc.

I'm a few hours in, and I came to post exactly this.


I miss towns. We'll see how it goes later in the game, but up to this point that's the main thing that is getting to me. Towns serve as a break in time, being able to explore, talk to random people, and buy things and various stores puts your mind in a "Reset" mode. Without it, it is almost tiring.


Being always on edge, fight fight fight, okay cut scene, back to fighting, quick boss battle, cutscene, back to running down line and fighting. It's too much if you play for hours continuously. You keep waiting for that "Reset", but it never happens.

I miss towns.

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Posted: 14th March 2010 21:50

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I haven't seen any of this game recently other than the adverts during the half-time of football games, which are crap. Judging by the comments here, I'm totally unconvinced that this game is better than the many, many other RPGs that I still haven't played and receive a great deal of praise, for example Dragon Age. On that basis this is still not worth buying ahead of the others. Again, based on the posts here and elsewhere, it does everything that an RPG should but isn't special in any way. Not good enough. If this is wrong please correct me.

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Posted: 14th March 2010 22:58

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I got FFXIII right away but, due to a lot of homework, I've only been able to play about 7 or so hours.

I like the feel this game has to it. I'm noticing several things which remind me of FFX (which, in my eyes, is great news). I'm noticing more of the realistic elements of FFXII but with a bit more of the epic feel than what I got from FFXII (which was sadly missed).

I haven't seen much as far as plot yet, but it is still quite early in the story so I don't expect to have much more than the introductory stuff. Character development is pleasing me so far, and I'm interested to see where it goes.

I think the graphics are pretty nice, and the voice acting (with the exception of Vaneille) is also good.

At first I was upset with the battle system, as I felt that it over simplified things. Once I got going further into the game and the enemies became more difficult, I changed my mind. The battle system has a considerably higher difficulty level and, while it is simplified in several respects as compared to previous FF games, it has added several new elements of strategy (paradigms and staggering) in addition to a much more fast-paced feel.

Overall, I think that FFXIII is a very nice game. It is definitely not my favorite FF, but it is just as far from being my least favorite. It combines several of the old elements I loved with several new elements that I have come to appreciate at least, if not enjoy. I like it quite a bit, and am excited to continue playing it.

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Post #184285
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Posted: 15th March 2010 22:03

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Red Wing Pilot
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Alright, back at it again. Life got in the way and stymied my progress a bit, but I am just past the faux airship get moment, and that made me chuckle. But before I resume, a rant because I can:

RANT
I'm seeing a lot of, well, very specific, hate. It seems like people don't like being led around by the nose. Well, sorry to say that it is gonna be that way with any game you play, period. There is no such thing as a non-linear game. They all have plots, and stories to follow, and built in limitations. The only game I can think of that is not linear, at all, is well... Mario Paint.

It just seems to me that people are reaching for something, anything, as a reason to hate this game. First it's a song that is not even a factor in actual game play. Then it's the fact that the combat system is new and different. Next is the voice-acting, then the fact that you have a map to guide you. Well, ya know what folks, stop being spoiled.

Let's take a look at 7, everyone's absolute favorite, can do no wrong, best thing since sliced bread, final fantasy. Well, last time I checked you we're kind of told where to go and what to do for that whole game too. Running around on a world map and getting into fight is not freedom, it's the same thing you see in 13. The difference is that the map is smaller, and you can see the enemies. Side quests? Sure, go try em, and die. Slowly, painfully, quickly, mercilessly, whatever the case may be, there are no games in the series that have optional side quests that are even near possible until the ass end of the game. Let's be realistic here people.

I am really tired of people bashing the game over and over and over again. We get it, you don't like it. Don't try to turn everything on it's head until no one else likes it either. You don't wanna play it, don't play it. But try not to cheapen the experience for people that might enjoy it.

END RANT

Anyway, the game is starting to open up, and, as expected the side quests are starting to pop up. You still have a map to guide you, and you still can't get back to other places, but it's cool, cause you aren't stuck in a Cocoon anymore. Oh wait, maybe with a name like Cocoon you shouldn't have expected to have any actual random exploration. The eidolon system is nice, and the fact that everything opened up is good too. Now I can actually customize the characters some, though they still feel stuck in a mold due to the huge point requirements of some abilities.

It's fairly obvious at this point of the game that I am in the home stretch, and will have some time to stray away from the story a bit, branch out, and build myself up for the final few encounters. The fact that there is not a clear cut antagonist is nice, though there are hints at one or two possibilities. It's not as smack you in the face as some of the other games, but there is a BBEG at the end.

This game feels more realistic to me, and it seems like these events could actually happen to these people. The pacing is such that you understand the frustration they are facing, and the fact that it is so quick tempo lets the time slip by. While it is more akin to playing a side scrolling game than a traditional RPG, it is still a nice experience.

Hopefully in a few days I can piece it all together and give a nice review that will either encourage, or discourage, people from experiencing what I think is a good game.

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Post #184297
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Posted: 16th March 2010 03:15

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Magitek Soldier
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Quote
I'm seeing a lot of, well, very specific, hate. It seems like people don't like being led around by the nose. Well, sorry to say that it is gonna be that way with any game you play, period. There is no such thing as a non-linear game. They all have plots, and stories to follow, and built in limitations. The only game I can think of that is not linear, at all, is well... Mario Paint.


Some games are not as linear as others, bub. Disliking a game because it's more linear than they prefer, or very linear, isn't an illegitimate reason to dislike the game. Are you telling me this game is no more linear than say, Morrowind or the latter part of FF6?

Stop acting like there aren't any good reasons to dislike or not have fun with the game, it's childish.

Quote
Let's take a look at 7, everyone's absolute favorite, can do no wrong, best thing since sliced bread, final fantasy. Well, last time I checked you we're kind of told where to go and what to do for that whole game too.


Sure, but I also have the option of slowing down, and distractions to explore at my leisure when I want. FFXIII is cutscenes and dungeons one after the other, with little effort to hide it or mix it up. The only thing to do is fight, run in a linear dungeon, and watch cutscenes. Compare it to say, Star Ocean 2, another JPRG, where there's so much to do that players sometimes forget to advance the game because they're having so much fun with all of the extra stuff.

Quote
Slowly, painfully, quickly, mercilessly, whatever the case may be, there are no games in the series that have optional side quests that are even near possible until the ass end of the game.


Final Fantasy VIII and IX.

Quote
Then it's the fact that the combat system is new and different.


New and different does not equal enjoyable or good. I for one think the combat system is alright, but I would never use the argument 'new and different' to defend quality. Something can be new and different and still suck pretty bad.

This post has been edited by Tryscal The Great on 16th March 2010 03:25

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Post #184302
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Posted: 16th March 2010 08:26

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Wavey Marle!
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As the principal ranter thus far I feel it only fair that I issue a rebuttal, sir.

Quote (Nytecrawla @ 15th March 2010 22:03)
I'm seeing a lot of, well, very specific, hate. It seems like people don't like being led around by the nose. Well, sorry to say that it is gonna be that way with any game you play, period. There is no such thing as a non-linear game. They all have plots, and stories to follow, and built in limitations. The only game I can think of that is not linear, at all, is well... Mario Paint.

I addressed this previously, actually. The trouble is not that it's linear, all games do boil down to a line in the end. It's what else is on the line, the differences or other factors in play. FF13 has, from all reports, fight cutscene fight cutscene until the 15 hour mark or so. If I want fight-cutscene I can play a game where the characters aren't meant to be important to the experience, like Killzone. Less than half the length and with more enjoyable gameplay that helps you switch your brain off an have fun rather than spot the many, many flaws the game has. And even that has more likeable characters and better voice acting. Admittedly mostly on the Helghast side in Killzone 2 but still....

Compare that to most modern games. Valve are the big ones that come to mind when I think "Linear and Good". Why? Fun gameplay, fun story, fun characters. Half-Life has a silent protagonist but every other character you meet draws you into the game's story. Portal is cheap and cheerful straight-line puzzles that wins you over by being short and the fact it's darkly hilarious. Left 4 Dead and Left 4 Dead 2 have the character interactions, the hilarity that can ensue through random whims of the AI Director.

FF13 has none of that, IMO.

Quote
It just seems to me that people are reaching for something, anything, as a reason to hate this game. First it's a song that is not even a factor in actual game play. Then it's the fact that the combat system is new and different. Next is the voice-acting, then the fact that you have a map to guide you. Well, ya know what folks, stop being spoiled.

The song has been exposed as the least of the game's troubles for many now, except that it has indeed taken a key part of the advertising campaign, at least in the UK. It's already annoying me, and Sweetdude, so who else of the 65 million people on This Island of Moaners We Call Great Britain is like "FECKING LEONA LEWIS" every time an ad for this game comes on? A lot of them were never going to buy the game, true, but it's still ridiculous that a key factor in advertising the game is some six-year careerspan bimbo who won a tv talent show and would have been destined for nothing greater than winning Celebrity Big Brother in 2016 had that show not been cancelled as the rancid pile of pointless dog vomit it was.

The combat system isn't really all that new or different though, is it? It's just altered from a previous game, which in this case appears to be X-2 with 10 and 12's levelling/upgrade systems in place... eventually...

The voice acting is key to enjoying the game by having us like the characters. It's a legitimate gripe that one of the key players is a sodding shrill Banshee from the land down under, where the women glow and men plunder and that the rest of the cast by and large seem to have phoned it in. The scriptwriter seemed to have phoned it in too.

Maps aren't a problem, but in this case did we really need one most of the time? If anything this game is what tries to spoil us, and fails because it gives us the wrong kind of candy.

Quote
Let's take a look at 7, everyone's absolute favorite, can do no wrong, best thing since sliced bread, final fantasy. Well, last time I checked you we're kind of told where to go and what to do for that whole game too. Running around on a world map and getting into fight is not freedom, it's the same thing you see in 13. The difference is that the map is smaller, and you can see the enemies. Side quests? Sure, go try em, and die. Slowly, painfully, quickly, mercilessly, whatever the case may be, there are no games in the series that have optional side quests that are even near possible until the ass end of the game. Let's be realistic here people.

Turn Left. Turn Right. Go back to that town. Go to any town. Experience a large detailed world the likes of which many of us haven't seen before, and even those who have would be impressed. Battle system learned in 2 hours flat. Characters engaging and likeable.

It may not be true freedom, but that was then. This is now. Then, we were given the illusion, that choice to stop or go back a bit. If we simply advanced we had far more to advance with. Yet the modern generation consists of a one-track advance until the equivalent of Disc 3. The option is gone. FF7 was linear, but it hid the line a lot better and offered something truly new and different to what had gone before to most players. FF13 just offers a tweaked combat system and The Shiny Shiny.


Quote
I am really tired of people bashing the game over and over and over again. We get it, you don't like it. Don't try to turn everything on it's head until no one else likes it either. You don't wanna play it, don't play it. But try not to cheapen the experience for people that might enjoy it.

It's your right to like it. It's our right to express our disappointment in a game we had been waiting for that turns out to be something far below the bar set by previous games. We don't want to play it so we won't. I don't see a reason to play now, so I shan't. I see plenty to complain about and frankly I see no reason why I should not say why I am disappointed.

If people complaining about how they dislike something is really going to cheapen your deal and make you dislike it, some words of advice. Never try to play a Sonic game, never try to play another Final Fantasy, never try to play World of Warcraft, never try to play a Call of Duty game... in fact, never go near anything popular. Hype backlash alone will ruin your enjoyment by the sounds of it. It's just in this case every complaint levelled at the game seems perfectly justified and has yet to be truly debunked.

Also don't watch the inevitable Zero Punctuation review of this game for heaven's sake.... wink.gif

This post has been edited by Del S on 16th March 2010 08:51

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Post #184303
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Posted: 16th March 2010 18:09

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Holy Swordsman
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Quote (Nytecrawla @ 15th March 2010 23:03)
It just seems to me that people are reaching for something, anything, as a reason to hate this game. First it's a song that is not even a factor in actual game play. Then it's the fact that the combat system is new and different. Next is the voice-acting, then the fact that you have a map to guide you. Well, ya know what folks, stop being spoiled.

Since you write that, I actually get the impression that people are looking for any reason to like the game.

And yes, we are spoiled by games these days, so why bother forcing down something which is sub-par?

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Me on the Starcraft.
Post #184306
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Posted: 16th March 2010 20:07

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Crusader
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Quote (Del S @ 16th March 2010 03:26)
Wall of Del's Text

i agree with pretty much everything you've said. for starters. i like the game. i happily take breaks to play megaman 9 and 10, as well as uncharted 2, but i like the game. the fact of the matter is that it is a good game, but an awful final fantasy.

Among the arguments already stated, this game has absolutely dismal pacing. I ended up selling off all of my components in the beginning because the game decides to wait for a couple chapters before telling you: "Surprise! You know those things that were previously useless and a great way to get a bunch of money? Now they upgrade things! Yay!" I didn't know how the hell to get a lot of money, and I still don't. I'm in chapter 11 and my only source of income is selling the endless variations of weapons that I wont switch to seeing as i have far better ones through the awful upgrade system. Another (petty) complaint is that there are too many save points. You kill a monster: save point. You entered a room: save point. In that SAME ROOM there's a cutscene. After the cutscene: save point. I don't want to know who needs this many save points, but Square; please don't baby me. Make a save point after every half an hour or so. I don't need to save the fact that I just found a claw. I also really miss the fact that I could move around in FF XII. There is nothing that infuriates me more (besides the horrendous voice acting and emotion) than seeing a boss ready an AoE attack that will invariably kill a party member, only to realize that i can't get out of it. I just have to sit there. Another thing: Paradigm Shifts don't pause the gameplay. I've had party members get killed in mid Paradigm shift; the same shift that was going to heal them...

All in all, it's decent. not great, not horrible, just incredibly average

Also: I cannot wait for Zero Punctuation's review of this. He probably won't though seeing as it's a JRPG, and he hardly reviews those.

EDIT: one last gripe. The whole "You lose if the leader dies" thing is absolutely 100% stupid. If 4 hardhitting enemies focus on my leader and someone cant heal them in time, I dont want to lose on a technicality. That sole factor really detracts from the gameplay sometimes.

This post has been edited by dont chocobos rule? on 16th March 2010 21:29

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Post #184307
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Posted: 16th March 2010 23:35

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Holy Swordsman
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Quote (dont chocobos rule? @ 16th March 2010 21:07)
Also: I cannot wait for Zero Punctuation's review of this. He probably won't though seeing as it's a JRPG, and he hardly reviews those.

It's happening.

Unless it's an April Fools joke, wouldn't be surprising. [For FBM below, I imagine that there'll be a queue of one or two waiting to go each week. The FFXIII one might be published in April. But, yeah, I only wrote that as an afterthought, I don't think it will be.]

This post has been edited by sweetdude on 17th March 2010 02:21

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Post #184313
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Posted: 17th March 2010 01:48

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Black Waltz
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Quote
Unless it's an April Fools joke, wouldn't be surprising.

In March, it would.

I just finished the first disc, and it's been excellent so far. Much better than 12, and i'm actually playing it out of choice rather than because I have no other games to play. As for the game, I really like the battle system. However, I think it's now more about strategy than the battling. Paradigm shifting is where the main focus lies. It's vague in terms of actions chosen, but better than having to choose each command individually. For example:

Scenario 1:
I set character 1 to cast thunder on an enemy, character 2 to attack, and character 3 to heal. I have to select each command in real time through a series of menus, which takes time and can cost the lives of the characters if the menus suck.
Scenario 2:
Paradigm shift - Ravager/Commando/Medic. Done.

It leaves more time to think about the strategy of the fight, observing everyone's health and acting accordingly. And since it's smart in that it only chooses commands that are useful, bonus points. It's a much better system than the real-time that FFXII used, although I do agree that the loss of the ability to move the main character around in battle is pretty lame. As for the linearity, I much prefer it to a way-too-huge open world. Isn't that why people hated II so much, because you wandered off the intended trail too much and got your ass handed to you by high-powered monsters? Yeah? Yeah. This way, I know where i'm going. I'm not getting lost in endless dungeons, I don't have a named destination but no clue of getting there.

There ARE a hell of a lot of save points, which is nice, but unnecessary with the ability to retry battles from nearby. I'd normally disagree with "Make a save point after every half an hour or so", because that's stupid, and I still kinda do, but they could easily get away with having 1/4 or 1/5 the amount of save points. Still, it's nice having them there, and I'm not complaining. I think they finally realised that playing the last twenty minutes over again is NOT FUN.
Quote
The problem is, that was then, this is now. FF10 was really the first to get heavy flak for railroading, because that was the turn of the century and the rise of the Sandbox. MMO's, Western RPG's, third-person adventures, all of them went into the idea of a wide open world with options outside the main story. Even 10 let you go back eventually, but 13, as far as I'm aware, there's nothing to go back to in the first place.
...
FF12 is the benchmark to compare 13 to, or even FF X-2. In terms of walking a line, neither of those games were as linear as 13, because though the plot was always a to b, you had the option to turn left or right off the set path and do something outside the main story in both games, something optional.

And this is the thing. In X, I enjoyed the linear gameplay. When I got to the free open world, I started exploring all the sidequests - Blitzball, Battle Arena, Celestial Weapons, Dark Aeons etc. In XII, it was the opposite. I was presented with a wide open area to explore, which was cool at the start, but when I tried to progress the story, it's annoying as hell. When I finally completed the game, I put it down for good. A few times afterwards, i'd pick it up, and try to do some of the Mark Hunting, but it's incredibly boring and tedious. That's why there's more than 5 times as much time in my X file than XII. And that's why I believe XIII will entertain me as much as X did in the end, possibly moreso. I think X did it best - linear until the last dungeon, then you're free to do whatever the hell you want - everything is open to you. I don't know if XIII is EXACTLY like that, but from what I hear, it's similar, and that makes me happy. Instead of being surrounded by so many things to do from the very start, I'm playing the actual game instead of minigames and quests. It's great.

Other things that I'm enjoying so far:
The music. Definitely different, but I really want to get a hold of the soundtrack now.
The way characters roam the maps. Like what VIII started, but not in a rubbish way.
The characters. Indeed I do.

I'm very happy with the game so far, and plan on playing it straight through. An excellent Final Fantasy, back with the top ranked so far, but I guess we'll see how the game pans out in Disc 2.
Post #184316
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Posted: 17th March 2010 04:47

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Quote (sweetdude @ 16th March 2010 18:35)
Quote (dont chocobos rule? @ 16th March 2010 21:07)
Also: I cannot wait for Zero Punctuation's review of this. He probably won't though seeing as it's a JRPG, and he hardly reviews those.

It's happening.

Unless it's an April Fools joke, wouldn't be surprising. [For FBM below, I imagine that there'll be a queue of one or two waiting to go each week. The FFXIII one might be published in April. But, yeah, I only wrote that as an afterthought, I don't think it will be.]

Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

Anyway, I got to the open world portion earlier today, but it's too little too late. And since I'm bored with the battle system, side-quests being nothing but fighting other, slightly more powerful enemies is not a happy prospect for me.

As for FBM's view on Paradigms, I have to disagree. I don't want conditional characters. One of the great joys I've had with Final Fantasies in the past is that even my heavy hitters can step in to heal someone if they need it. I don't want to have to stop a full-on assault when a opponent is 2% from Stagger to lose it all because I have to heal and Paradigms take so long to change. The fact of the matter is that it unnecessarily limits the player. In XII, for example, my main party was Vaan, Ashe, and Balthier. Ashe was my primary healer, but if she was knocked down, I liked the fact that I could revive her right then and there, with any party member. If your healer in XIII has some arbitrary status effect that makes them not able to move, you better hope that you aren't in the middle of attacking someone so that you can come to a halt, swap Paradigms, heal the party up, and start filling up someone's stagger bar right back up. It is beyond me that you can't have some bleed over with the classes, not to mention that once you get far enough into the game, a quick potion doesn't quite cut it enough to give you as much security as it did before.

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Post #184318
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Posted: 17th March 2010 12:30

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Red Wing Pilot
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Quote (dont chocobos rule? @ 17th March 2010 00:47)
As for FBM's view on Paradigms, I have to disagree. I don't want conditional characters. One of the great joys I've had with Final Fantasies in the past is that even my heavy hitters can step in to heal someone if they need it. I don't want to have to stop a full-on assault when a opponent is 2% from Stagger to lose it all because I have to heal and Paradigms take so long to change. The fact of the matter is that it unnecessarily limits the player. In XII, for example, my main party was Vaan, Ashe, and Balthier. Ashe was my primary healer, but if she was knocked down, I liked the fact that I could revive her right then and there, with any party member. If your healer in XIII has some arbitrary status effect that makes them not able to move, you better hope that you aren't in the middle of attacking someone so that you can come to a halt, swap Paradigms, heal the party up, and start filling up someone's stagger bar right back up. It is beyond me that you can't have some bleed over with the classes, not to mention that once you get far enough into the game, a quick potion doesn't quite cut it enough to give you as much security as it did before.

There is a bleed through, several characters(maybe even all of them, I have to check) get the Renew ability, which allows you to use a technique to heal the entire party at once, as well as revive any fallen member, and once you learn a technique, it is available for use no matter what class you choose. Also, the potions now heal the entire party as well, and while not exactly as reliable as a Cura, with a doctors code equipped they can actually heal for more, seeing as how the cure spells heal for a flat amount per cast.

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Post #184323
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Posted: 17th March 2010 13:25

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"Square-Enix delivers a great game, not a savior" - Game Informer Magazine

Final Fantasy XIII is what it is. If we as or were Final Fantasy fans expect to see a new Final Fantasy game been the best ever in the series, or just better than the "my favorite" Final Fantasy, then there is no escaping disappointment at the end of the road. I mean, you can't compare a Metallica album from the mid 1990's with Master of Puppets or ...And Justice for All just to make an example.

To be brief about my 13th experience this is what I think:

1. The story so far has been 'bleh', right there with Final Fantasy 8, I just don't care.

2. The characters, some are good, none of them are great, and they seriously need to at least for one in the history of Final Fantasy make a main character that's not a teenager or an early 20's female or dude... Come one Squre-Enix, I think people are ready to deal with grown up problems... Basch would've been an awesome main character for Final Fantasy 12, but no we had to deal with 16 year old Vaan puppy eyes. Anyway, Lightning has been good so far, so my main character complaint doesn't fit with Final Fantasy 13.

3. Music, the techno blows richard and the monotony of hearing the same music over and over again on different locations and situations sucks. The music is not horrible, but a better score could have been done. In my opinion Final Fantasy 12 had better and memorable music, so far the only music I like from this game is the Battle Music, the game's credit intro, the Gran Turismo menu like music of Gran Pulse, and believe it or not Leona Lewis did a good job, I'm sorry but she did. Can you sing like her? I bet most of you can't.

4. Summons... So much hatred for the Transformers back when Square-Enix announced their plans for a fellow Eidolons, I don't hear or read anything bad about them, as matter a fact I think the Transforming Eidolons look amazing. The Eidolon to Gestalt transition looks great.

5. The Paradigm and Weapon upgrades even though not an innovative feature, they do fit well into this game, which in my opinion is super simplistic.

6. Final Fantasy XIV will surprise a lot of people and catch them by surprise, making all of the 13th Haters forget about they ever hated Final Fantasy 13.

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Post #184325
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Posted: 17th March 2010 15:47

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Crusader
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Quote (Nytecrawla @ 17th March 2010 07:30)
Quote (dont chocobos rule? @ 17th March 2010 00:47)
As for FBM's view on Paradigms, I have to disagree. I don't want conditional characters. One of the great joys I've had with Final Fantasies in the past is that even my heavy hitters can step in to heal someone if they need it. I don't want to have to stop a full-on assault when a opponent is 2% from Stagger to lose it all because I have to heal and Paradigms take so long to change. The fact of the matter is that it unnecessarily limits the player. In XII, for example, my main party was Vaan, Ashe, and Balthier. Ashe was my primary healer, but if she was knocked down, I liked the fact that I could revive her right then and there, with any party member. If your healer in XIII has some arbitrary status effect that makes them not able to move, you better hope that you aren't in the middle of attacking someone so that you can come to a halt, swap Paradigms, heal the party up, and start filling up someone's stagger bar right back up. It is beyond me that you can't have some bleed over with the classes, not to mention that once you get far enough into the game, a quick potion doesn't quite cut it enough to give you as much security as it did before.

There is a bleed through, several characters(maybe even all of them, I have to check) get the Renew ability, which allows you to use a technique to heal the entire party at once, as well as revive any fallen member, and once you learn a technique, it is available for use no matter what class you choose. Also, the potions now heal the entire party as well, and while not exactly as reliable as a Cura, with a doctors code equipped they can actually heal for more, seeing as how the cure spells heal for a flat amount per cast.

Renew is a good technique, however it costs 2 TP. And seeing how I like to save TP for boss fights (using quake, summons, etc.), or using Libra, it doesn't have much use for me unless two people are down. That still doesn't change the fact that if my leader goes down (Lightning in this case), I can't do anything about it. This happened near the end of a boss fight once. He had maybe 1000 HP left and I just Staggered him. Lightning was at full health and she got hit with a rather strong attack that killed her. No amount of poitions or Renew could've helped me there, hence my "Unnecessarily limits the player" argument.

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Posted: 17th March 2010 17:05

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Quote (dont chocobos rule? @ 17th March 2010 10:47)
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Renew is a good technique, however it costs 2 TP. And seeing how I like to save TP for boss fights (using quake, summons, etc.), or using Libra, it doesn't have much use for me unless two people are down. That still doesn't change the fact that if my leader goes down (Lightning in this case), I can't do anything about it. This happened near the end of a boss fight once. He had maybe 1000 HP left and I just Staggered him. Lightning was at full health and she got hit with a rather strong attack that killed her. No amount of poitions or Renew could've helped me there, hence my "Unnecessarily limits the player" argument.

That is why using a Sentinel leader who can cast Renew is the way to go. Always have the COMBAT CLINIC paradigm (SEN - MED - MED) ready for when your party is on critical, that way your SEN can cast Renew and your two MED can begin healing the party faster than just having one MED, such is the case with TIRELESS CHARGE (COM - COM - MED) and DIVERSITY (COM - RAV - MED), good attack-healing paradigm against weaker foes. Having a Sentinel on the party at later stages of the game is important. The Sentinel will lower the damage that your team takes, and the higher the Sentinel level, the less damage your party receives.

I love DELTA ATTACK (COM - RAV - SEN). I usually use it until high HP enemies are half staggered and then I switch to MYSTIC TOWER (RAV - RAV - SEN) for faster chaining. Once the enemy is staggered then I switch to COMBAT CLINIC if my party HP is low, or just go for RELENTLESS ASSAULT (RAV - COM - RAV) or AGGRESSION (COM - COM - RAV) depending on the enemy weakness. If the enemy is weak against magic I just stick to MYSTIC TOWER or switch to TRI-DISASTER (RAV- RAV - RAV) if available.



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